Ok so my question is.

Lets say you have one hull left, just enough to Vader, but you and your opponent both have the same PS and he has initiative.

So he gets to shoot at you first, but because of simultaneous firing you get to return fire.

If you were to be destroyed and get your return fire, can you still Vader?

This is basically more of a question when is damage applied in terms of simultaneous fire.

Is damage applied after both ships fire their volley?

Is damage applied immediately, thus its not really simultaneous fire?

All I could find is that the ship gets to keep and use all its upgrades during the return fire, but if the damage is already applied to the **** and it should be destroyed, you technically can't Vader because you don't have the hull for it. So then its not really simultaneous fire.

This is basically more of a question when is damage applied in terms of simultaneous fire.

I think I misread your question...

In this case, I believe that you can not use Vader. The damage is applied in step 7 per the Page 7 chart, and you trigger abilities that happen 'after attacking' or 'after defending' in step 8. At that point the ship would have damage cards equal to it's hull.

The FAQ for Vader says "A ship equipped with Darth Vader can use this ability only if it has at least 1 hull remaining."

So in this case I'd say the ship with Vader doesn't have a hull remaining so Vader can't trigger.

Normally i'd say yes but theres a FAQ at the end talking about such a situation, though not directly vader.

Guys there's a flow chart.

Ships are removed at step 10, Vader is step 8 and damage is step 7. You will recieve lethal damage from their shot, hit step 10 and remain in play due to simultaneous fire. You then get to perform your attack, hit step 8, have no hull with which to resolve Vader, then hit step 10 and be removed from play as simultaneous fire no longer keeps you alive.

nigeltastic has it right. This is 100% clear cut, and has been for a very long time.

"Simultaneous" fire isn't actually simultaneous . Nothing in X-Wing is actually simultaneous. Everything happens in sequence, step by step. In other words, even if it's called the "simultaneous fire rule", your ship will attack after the the enemy's ship.

nigeltastic has it right.

Yes he is, which is the same thing I said in my post... At least when after I went back re-read the question.

nigeltastic has it right.

Yes he is, which is the same thing I said in my post... At least when after I went back re-read the question.

I will say it was unintentional mimicking, all your post said when I began my reply was 'I misread the question'. I blame ninja powers.

I blame ninja powers.

Fair enough. When I first read it I missed the part about the ship with Vader having 1 hull left, so that changed my answer.

I was worried that my final edited answer was unclear.

Love/hate the FAQ ruling where it talks about being unable to use Vader unless you have one or more hull remaining. We should all know that Hull value does NOT decrease during the game (outside of Boba Fett taking off a Hull Upgrade) so every ship is going to have one or more hull. Now it may only be able to hold so many damage cards without being destroyed when cards >= Hull which is what most suspect the FAQ intends to say.

If the ship Vader is on is supposed to be dead then Vader can't be used.

Love/hate the FAQ ruling where it talks about being unable to use Vader unless you have one or more hull remaining.

Yeah it is technically incorrect shorthand, because as you point out hull doesn't decrease normally and a ship is only destroyed when the number of damage cards = hull value.