What about using the Raider as both a Anti-fighter platform and to hunt down 'lifeboat' or Carrier flotillas?

Raider 1: Instigator, Kallus, Sensor Teams, APT = 61 points

Raider 2: Instigator, Kallus, Sensor Teams, SW7 = 65 points

Has the speed to run them down, and blues to bypass Scatter. Thoughts?

I like the idea, but by sacrificing OE for sensor teams you risk not doing enough damage to kill the flotilla with the shot you have lined up

Sure why not.

Works great if you can keep them out of big ship firing arcs, and neither are useless if no squads or flotillas show up, as rare as that is going to be.

Question is you are putting 61 points into 4 hull that is chewed through pretty easily by bombers.

Would you get more mileage in both of these rolls through 61 points of squads? Even if it was just 2 aggressors and IG-88 cause you didn't have anything to activate them with?

Imo they are the best in the game for it.

@ Brobafett: You aren't wrong, and that is not a bad set up either. I was just working out ways to keep activations up, but still have something to deal with those threats.

@ MandalorianMoose: That is true, OE is powerful, but on a Mk2 it's not so much of a loss. Even threatening one, might cause the opponent to rethink his deployment and give the heavy hitters time to do their jobs.

You don't really need Sensor Teams. I've done it with regular ol' Raider-Is with only Ordnance Experts. It goes like this:

Turn A: Crash land into the soft comfy (preferably already-activated) flotilla, dealing it 1 damage and gaining obstruction from the rest of the enemy fleet. If you can land in front of it and not get killed by other ships, even better (as you're shutting off its escape routes and potentially forcing it to ram you on its next move, dealing it more damage).

Turn B: Light up the flotilla with a Concentrate Fire dial. Add a blue dice if you didn't roll an Accuracy naturally. Add a black if you did. If necessary, keep ramming the flotilla until it dies. If you were able to double-arc the flotilla, that's probably unnecessary as it's quite dead by now. Fly off into the distance.

Raiders and CR90Bs (with SW7s) are superlative flotilla hunters. As are any hefiter ships with a means of generating a red Accuracy reliably (Sensor Teams/H9s) and Quad Turbolaser Cannons, but those are a lot more expensive and more niche than the fairly basic Raiders or CR90Bs.

@Snipafist: Yeah that's good to know it's been done. I am likely to be testing it out to see how I feel about it.

I will add that with flotillas becoming more popular around me, it's actually giving me cause to consider Darth Vader as a fleet commander (which is INSANE). With his reroll on a Raider (who will happily flip an Evade for the effect), you have extremely good odds of finding an Accuracy when you need it and one-shotting flotillas with no problems.

I am a huge fan of Screed actually, but I've considered Vader a few times for a list. He would indeed make an interesting commander for a fleet.

Skip Screed, skip Vader, add Veteran Gunners. Done.

@PT106: I roll 5 dice, I get one crit, one hit, one accuracy, and two blanks. VG forces me to re-roll all of it. Not efficient. Screed lets me get another crit (possibly a hit/crit) out of the deal. Vader lets me trade a token to get just the two blanks re-rolled. So not sure VG is the end all be all.

@PT106: I roll 5 dice, I get one crit, one hit, one accuracy, and two blanks. VG forces me to re-roll all of it. Not efficient. Screed lets me get another crit (possibly a hit/crit) out of the deal. Vader lets me trade a token to get just the two blanks re-rolled. So not sure VG is the end all be all.

You can spend the acc before rerolling the rest

What about using the Raider as both a Anti-fighter platform and to hunt down 'lifeboat' or Carrier flotillas?

Raider 1: Instigator, Kallus, Sensor Teams, APT = 61 points

Raider 2: Instigator, Kallus, Sensor Teams, SW7 = 65 points

Has the speed to run them down, and blues to bypass Scatter. Thoughts?

You're spending 60 points to run down ships that cost 30.

What about using the Raider as both a Anti-fighter platform and to hunt down 'lifeboat' or Carrier flotillas?

Raider 1: Instigator, Kallus, Sensor Teams, APT = 61 points

Raider 2: Instigator, Kallus, Sensor Teams, SW7 = 65 points

Has the speed to run them down, and blues to bypass Scatter. Thoughts?

You're spending 60 points to run down ships that cost 30.

And if that was the only thing it could do, it would be a garbage investment. Fortunately, it can also kill squadrons extremely effectively, delay activations, augment attacks against other ships, and kill more than one flotilla in a game.

I use MC30's for this, and they cost way more. That doesn't make them a bad investment--my local opponents hate seeing then across the table. The price of the killing ship vs price of the killed ship isn't really a great measure of effectiveness unless you're actually trading them--which raider vs flotilla you're probably not, all other things being equal.

What about using the Raider as both a Anti-fighter platform and to hunt down 'lifeboat' or Carrier flotillas?

Raider 1: Instigator, Kallus, Sensor Teams, APT = 61 points

Raider 2: Instigator, Kallus, Sensor Teams, SW7 = 65 points

Has the speed to run them down, and blues to bypass Scatter. Thoughts?

You're spending 60 points to run down ships that cost 30.

And if that was the only thing it could do, it would be a garbage investment. Fortunately, it can also kill squadrons extremely effectively, delay activations, augment attacks against other ships, and kill more than one flotilla in a game.

I use MC30's for this, and they cost way more. That doesn't make them a bad investment--my local opponents hate seeing then across the table. The price of the killing ship vs price of the killed ship isn't really a great measure of effectiveness unless you're actually trading them--which raider vs flotilla you're probably not, all other things being equal.

I personally consider a Demo glad 2 the best platform in the game for this, most people view it as a waste, fealing demo should be hunting large game, but I've taken a good number of games by demo hunting smaller game.

Glad 2, demo, Apt, sensor team, engine tec, kallus. Worked into a vader/scree list this is 93 pionts of sudden death to small stuff. Is great against CR90s/raiders yet still acts as a major threat to big ships, it's not the clonisher ultimate threat just a very effective multi purpose unit for people who love high speed close in work. Paired with instigator and 2 ties for the full anti fighter/pomber package that also provides ship to ship fire power that can also take down an ISD if flown appropriately.

I also agree that the Raiders described in the OP are not wastes. They are quite capable against the healthy numbers of squads/flotillas we are seeing right now.

That being said, I wish they could take Engine Techs. That ET double ram has been my favorite way of killing that stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid Bright Hope larva.

@PT106: I roll 5 dice, I get one crit, one hit, one accuracy, and two blanks. VG forces me to re-roll all of it. Not efficient. Screed lets me get another crit (possibly a hit/crit) out of the deal. Vader lets me trade a token to get just the two blanks re-rolled. So not sure VG is the end all be all.

You can spend the acc before rerolling the rest

Modify dice comes before spend accuracy, so I don't think you get to spend the acc before you re-roll it.....

@PT106: I roll 5 dice, I get one crit, one hit, one accuracy, and two blanks. VG forces me to re-roll all of it. Not efficient. Screed lets me get another crit (possibly a hit/crit) out of the deal. Vader lets me trade a token to get just the two blanks re-rolled. So not sure VG is the end all be all.

You can spend the acc before rerolling the rest

Modify dice comes before spend accuracy, so I don't think you get to spend the acc before you re-roll it.....

No.

There is no separate "modify" step followed by a "spend accuracy step".

It's all part of the same modify step, and you decide the order.

Roll.

Spend Acc.

Reroll w/ Vet Gunners

Acc doesn't get rerolled - it's been spent, so is no longer in the pool.

What about using the Raider as both a Anti-fighter platform and to hunt down 'lifeboat' or Carrier flotillas?

Raider 1: Instigator, Kallus, Sensor Teams, APT = 61 points

Raider 2: Instigator, Kallus, Sensor Teams, SW7 = 65 points

Has the speed to run them down, and blues to bypass Scatter. Thoughts?

You're spending 60 points to run down ships that cost 30.

And if that was the only thing it could do, it would be a garbage investment. Fortunately, it can also kill squadrons extremely effectively, delay activations, augment attacks against other ships, and kill more than one flotilla in a game.

I use MC30's for this, and they cost way more. That doesn't make them a bad investment--my local opponents hate seeing then across the table. The price of the killing ship vs price of the killed ship isn't really a great measure of effectiveness unless you're actually trading them--which raider vs flotilla you're probably not, all other things being equal.

Torps with H9 are a flotillas worst nightmare

Certainly. But if you're double-arcing my Bright Hope with your H9 MC30 you're not shooting at my real ships

@PT106: I roll 5 dice, I get one crit, one hit, one accuracy, and two blanks. VG forces me to re-roll all of it. Not efficient. Screed lets me get another crit (possibly a hit/crit) out of the deal. Vader lets me trade a token to get just the two blanks re-rolled. So not sure VG is the end all be all.

You can spend the acc before rerolling the rest

Modify dice comes before spend accuracy, so I don't think you get to spend the acc before you re-roll it.....

No.

There is no separate "modify" step followed by a "spend accuracy step".

It's all part of the same modify step, and you decide the order.

Roll.

Spend Acc.

Reroll w/ Vet Gunners

Acc doesn't get rerolled - it's been spent, so is no longer in the pool.

What about using the Raider as both a Anti-fighter platform and to hunt down 'lifeboat' or Carrier flotillas?

Raider 1: Instigator, Kallus, Sensor Teams, APT = 61 points

Raider 2: Instigator, Kallus, Sensor Teams, SW7 = 65 points

Has the speed to run them down, and blues to bypass Scatter. Thoughts?

You're spending 60 points to run down ships that cost 30.

And if that was the only thing it could do, it would be a garbage investment. Fortunately, it can also kill squadrons extremely effectively, delay activations, augment attacks against other ships, and kill more than one flotilla in a game.

I use MC30's for this, and they cost way more. That doesn't make them a bad investment--my local opponents hate seeing then across the table. The price of the killing ship vs price of the killed ship isn't really a great measure of effectiveness unless you're actually trading them--which raider vs flotilla you're probably not, all other things being equal.

A two blue two black attack has less than a fifty percent chance of getting the accuracy needed to actually hit a floatilla, to say nothing of the four damage required beyond that. If you add a blue (or reroll) to try and get that accuracy the odds go up to about sixty percent but then require you to roll better than average on the dice for the lethal damage. (Rolling four damage on four dice expecting 3.5 damage). If you go for the black, you're still stuck with the sub fifty percent chance at an accuracy, but you get to compensate with expected damage of 3.75. You will notice that this is still less than four.

Should only need 3.

There's no excuse not to ram it to death afterwards, since, y'know, it doesn't hurt you.

@PT106: I roll 5 dice, I get one crit, one hit, one accuracy, and two blanks. VG forces me to re-roll all of it. Not efficient. Screed lets me get another crit (possibly a hit/crit) out of the deal. Vader lets me trade a token to get just the two blanks re-rolled. So not sure VG is the end all be all.

You can spend the acc before rerolling the rest

Modify dice comes before spend accuracy, so I don't think you get to spend the acc before you re-roll it.....

No.

There is no separate "modify" step followed by a "spend accuracy step".

It's all part of the same modify step, and you decide the order.

Roll.

Spend Acc.

Reroll w/ Vet Gunners

Acc doesn't get rerolled - it's been spent, so is no longer in the pool.

Where does it say spending accuracy removes them from the pool?

In the rules :-D

On a more serious note, a dice is gone after it's been spent. Not just accs. Any kind of spend.

I've found that if you dedicate one of the corvettes (either Imperial or Rebel) to killing a corvette, it will die. It seems to average about 2 turns to kill with a TRC90 or an APT Raider. Generally, you squeak through a few damage and then ram it.

IMO opinion it's a bit of a misnomer to think it's a waste to send a 50 point ship after an 18-30 point ship. At it's most basic level, the argument is flawed because since there's nothing stopping you from sending the 50 point ship on afterward to try and help kill something bigger (way easier to do if you start at speed 4 and do nav commands at the right time to get you turned around quickly). More importantly, if it has the commander on it or it's used mainly to push squadrons it's definitely worth it to hunt it actively since it's destruction has a more widespread effect than just losing points.