And to think, "the Force just becoming Magic" was why many people HATED the Expanded Universe, in my experience, but now, instead of just being tools, like anything else, lightsabers, at least their crystals, have a more spiritual connection to specific Jedi than a Time Lord, their TARDIS, and their sonic screwdriver share. (shakes head)

I'm sorry, you can take whichever variant you like, but I'm going to stick with lightsabers, and their crystals, being, for the most part, physical objects, that Jedi use. If a droid has no connection to the Force, because it isn't alive, neither will my lightsaber crystal, unless it's a Shard, or a Tsil, both of which are living crystals, and very EU, so probably not included. Alright, I'm done complaining, for now.

Thats the beauty of uaving the EU the writers of the current canon can cherry pick what they want, guess what, so can we.

Very much the case Again, sorry for coming off as the stodgy fogey; Star Wars and Legend of Zelda are my favorite two things, probably, and between various loses, and changes, in this, and not seeing a single green tunic, or iconic shield, in the Zelda trailers, my childhood is trying to lose me, and it makes me grumpy. I won't even go into Transformers, and Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles.

On the plus side, compared to things like 40K, at least Star Wars, both as a franchise, and as an RPG, are going strong.

And to think, "the Force just becoming Magic" was why many people HATED the Expanded Universe, in my experience, but now, instead of just being tools, like anything else, lightsabers, at least their crystals, have a more spiritual connection to specific Jedi than a Time Lord, their TARDIS, and their sonic screwdriver share. (shakes head)

I'm sorry, you can take whichever variant you like, but I'm going to stick with lightsabers, and their crystals, being, for the most part, physical objects, that Jedi use. If a droid has no connection to the Force, because it isn't alive, neither will my lightsaber crystal, unless it's a Shard, or a Tsil, both of which are living crystals, and very EU, so probably not included. Alright, I'm done complaining, for now.

However, the idea that lightsaber crystals having a Force connection to their owners, and being imbued with the Force during lightsaber construction is not new. This has always been the case since the earliest days of the saga. This extends to lightsabers, obviously. They to have always been stated to be "connected" on a metaphysical level to the Jedi (or Sith) who constructed them.

Out of curiosity, who's the one relaying this tidbit about Sith having to steal crystals and why they always have red blades?

I ask because if it's not a Sith directly, then there is the possibility that whatever source of info Ahsoka is drawing upon could be mistaken. For instance, if it's from old Jedi teachings, then it could well be their information is woefully out of date, and that the modern Sith have devised other means to acquire kyber crystals. Or if it was a Sith, they could very well have lied; I wouldn't put it past a Sith Lord to deliver a falsehood to a hated enemy just to keep them in the dark about the Sith's true methods.

Personally, I like/prefer the idea of the Sith using synthetic crystals, as it fit with their notion of dominance, not only over others but over the Force, bending it to their will to create a replica of something natural, in a way making their lightsaber crystals "unnatural." It would also enable them procure kyber crystals in sufficient quantity for groups like the Inquisitors while not being as reliant upon ritual as the Jedi Order was.

It is both Ahsoka and the text itself - there's a section narrated "by the crystals" or something along those lines.

Also, I would agree. Ahsoka is not a scholar, she didn't finish her training and only knew of Ilum as a source of Kyber crystals, but she suspected there were other places.

So we can easily attribute this information as propaganda spread by Jedi fundamentalists or at least Jedi ignorance.

Also, nowhere is it stated that a crystal turns red the moment its owner turns to the dark side. We only know that the red turn white when a light sider cleanses/attunes to it.

Original cannon for the sith lightsaber crystals was that they were synthetic and created as a concentration of negative emotion. they were less stable than other crystals but could short out an enemy lightsaber in a dual. this is from the old delray jedi vs sith official guide.

Very much the case Again, sorry for coming off as the stodgy fogey; Star Wars and Legend of Zelda are my favorite two things, probably, and between various loses, and changes, in this, and not seeing a single green tunic, or iconic shield, in the Zelda trailers, my childhood is trying to lose me, and it makes me grumpy. I won't even go into Transformers, and Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles.

On the plus side, compared to things like 40K, at least Star Wars, both as a franchise, and as an RPG, are going strong.

Yeah Link seems to be wearing a lotta blue in Breath of fresh air the wild. Not his color really. And it's sorta survival gamish? I'm intrigued (altough dragon quest builders is scratching that itch for me.)

The 2nd TMNT movie was better than the 1st one, they effed up Casey Jones, but they got Beebob and Rocksteady right, so..yaaay?

GW brought back Harlequins and genestealer cults! With all the flavor done right. Now if one could only aford those models...

Those **** lightsaber cristals on the other hand....If it's not Lucas with midichlorians, it's this new guy with his sensitive cristals!

I listened to the audiobook. It seems very clear that Ahsoka has a limited understanding of how darksiders get their crystals and the choice of words the author used indicate it not being an absolute truth. As such, it can be noted that stealing crystals may only be a single way of how darksiders get their crystals. Might there be crystals that call out to darksiders? Possibly. Ahsoka only knows about the ones that call to those attuned to the light.

Oh thank god.

On a related note, pertaining to a sidebar in Endless Vigil in the section regarding crafting lightsaber hilts...

If one presumes that FFG has to run things through Lucasfilm who then provides input and corrections as needed, then it would seem that the process of creating synthetic crystals is not a part of the new canon. The sidebar in question, on page 84 says in the first sentence that "cannot be made."

So if it is indeed true in the new canon that the only method of obtaining a kyber crystal is to find a natural one, that brings up the interesting question of where did Luke and Ezra find the crystals for their replacement lightsabers? For Luke, it'd long been held that he'd used instructions Obi-Wan had left him to forge a synthetic crystal, so unless the old hermit had a small stash of kyber crystals hidden inside his old hut, where did Luke (who had now real training on the process of crafting a lightsaber until well after he'd abandoned his training on Dagobah) find a kyber crystal for his new lightsaber?

From how Filoni has referenced his chats with Lucas on the YV (there were plans,or at least an idea of including the in TCW apparently,) it would make sense that in their view of the Force they anything not present in the Force cannot exist. The whole premise of the YV was their absence in the Force, which to Lucas/Filoni meant absent from life ... it therefore became contradictory to have life that is not part of life... kinda, that's me paraphrasing wildly. Anyway, this then can lead towards the same idea that creating synthetic Kyber crystals is impossible, it would be like creating synthetic Force sensitive life... So, while I think the idea of a synthetic lightsaber crystal is one thing, a synthetic Kyber crystal is something else. But since you need a Kyber crystal to create a lightsaber ... at least as far as I know ... then, well...

I would allow the creation of synthetic crystals in my games, but I wouldn't allow them to be attuned to (no force rating added to mod roll,) and have very few, if any, modification options. Although I would perhaps slap on the refined cortosis effect, deactivating other lightsabers.

But yeah, your observation about Ezra's second crystal and Luke's first... I hope this will be revealed in the future. Although an idea is that Ezra got his from Malachor, the green cross-guard lightsaber he found ... sure the episode didn't show him picking up a crystal ... but it is possible... Ilum isn't going to work, and the Lothal temple is not available either, I assume, so ... somewhere else? Luke may have picked his up on Dagobah, found it in Kenobi's hut, or ... somewhere else...

As for Luke's crystal, it's easy enough to say that Obi-Wan had a crystal for Luke waiting. Remember, his whole plan initially was to watch over Luke "until he was ready." As the Jedi believed firmly that the final test of skill was to construct a Lightsaber, he would have by necessity had to have arranged for a crystal to be available. Anakin's lightsaber, while providing a good training tool, wouldn't provide this test of skill. With Ezra, any of the lightsabers on Malachor provide ample opportunity as Jegergryte said.

So far, for that matter, we don't even know that Ezra even constructed his current saber. It could be that he picked up an existing saber when leaving Malachor.

When the Jedi and clones arrived on Geonosis, a pair of "loaner" sabers were tossed to Anakin and Obi-Wan. Between that and Luke's use of Anakin's saber, we have precedent showing that, while lightsaber construction (including obtaining a crystal) was an important (possibly mostly ceremonial?) aspect of a Padawan's training, a Jedi could use any existing lightsaber effectively.

On a related note, pertaining to a sidebar in Endless Vigil in the section regarding crafting lightsaber hilts...

If one presumes that FFG has to run things through Lucasfilm who then provides input and corrections as needed, then it would seem that the process of creating synthetic crystals is not a part of the new canon. The sidebar in question, on page 84 says in the first sentence that "cannot be made."

Means very little in context that we see EU stuff in FFG publications and furthermore sith or dark side alchemy would be nothing that you make accessible for player ever. That is something reserved to restore sliced up nemesis or horrible monsters or similar challenges.

Very much the case Again, sorry for coming off as the stodgy fogey; Star Wars and Legend of Zelda are my favorite two things, probably, and between various loses, and changes, in this, and not seeing a single green tunic, or iconic shield, in the Zelda trailers, my childhood is trying to lose me, and it makes me grumpy. I won't even go into Transformers, and Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles.

On the plus side, compared to things like 40K, at least Star Wars, both as a franchise, and as an RPG, are going strong.

So if it is indeed true in the new canon that the only method of obtaining a kyber crystal is to find a natural one, that brings up the interesting question of where did Luke and Ezra find the crystals for their replacement lightsabers? For Luke, it'd long been held that he'd used instructions Obi-Wan had left him to forge a synthetic crystal, so unless the old hermit had a small stash of kyber crystals hidden inside his old hut, where did Luke (who had now real training on the process of crafting a lightsaber until well after he'd abandoned his training on Dagobah) find a kyber crystal for his new lightsaber?

But yeah, your observation about Ezra's second crystal and Luke's first... I hope this will be revealed in the future. Although an idea is that Ezra got his from Malachor, the green cross-guard lightsaber he found ... sure the episode didn't show him picking up a crystal ... but it is possible... Ilum isn't going to work, and the Lothal temple is not available either, I assume, so ... somewhere else? Luke may have picked his up on Dagobah, found it in Kenobi's hut, or ... somewhere else...

As for Luke's crystal, it's easy enough to say that Obi-Wan had a crystal for Luke waiting. Remember, his whole plan initially was to watch over Luke "until he was ready." As the Jedi believed firmly that the final test of skill was to construct a Lightsaber, he would have by necessity had to have arranged for a crystal to be available. Anakin's lightsaber, while providing a good training tool, wouldn't provide this test of skill. With Ezra, any of the lightsabers on Malachor provide ample opportunity as Jegergryte said.

One fan theory I've heard tossed around is that Obi-Wan held onto Qui-Gon's lightsaber (or at least just the crystal) and Luke found it later. I kind of like this one, though I'm admittedly more of a fan of Luke taking time to find and attune his own crystal. And frankly, this is one story I'm okay with not being told. There's plenty of room for mystery and mysticism in this universe, and not resisting the urge to explain every little detail of what happened on the screen is one reason I wasn't really a fan of Legends.

I have no idea where Ezra's new lightsaber came from, but I could believe Malachor.

So the new canon all but wipes out all the different types of lightsaber crystals. So rather than different crystals, could they all not now represent different types of attunement? Or maybe role=playing opportunities. For instance, if one wanted to attune his crystal as a krayt dragon pearl, one would have to trek to Tatooine and track down a krayt dragon or the remains of one and meditate or some such process in order to attune it?

That's an interesting idea.

So the new canon all but wipes out all the different types of lightsaber crystals. So rather than different crystals, could they all not now represent different types of attunement? Or maybe role=playing opportunities. For instance, if one wanted to attune his crystal as a krayt dragon pearl, one would have to trek to Tatooine and track down a krayt dragon or the remains of one and meditate or some such process in order to attune it?

It's an idea, one that one of my online gaming buddies and I have discussed.

That rather than having to go hunting at exotic locations for certain types of crystals, the PC simply obtains a kyber crystal, and then chooses what sort of effects it has. I sort of did that with awarding the Soresu Defender in my FaD game a Lorrdian Gemstone as a personal reward, as the player had made it very clear early on that was the type of crystal he wanted for his character.

I could see this as being problematic from a game play perspective, as it makes some of the more costly/hard-to-acquire crystals a lot more common that what was probably intended by the writers. Ilum crystals are a nice baseline, but why bother with those when you can just say your kyber crystal is a Krayt Dragon Pearl or an Etaan crystal or some other exotic, hard-to-find type?

I suppose as long as the player and GM have an open discussion, and the player is willing to not get too greedy in terms of what sort of effects their newly acquired kyber crystal has, it could work.

So the new canon all but wipes out all the different types of lightsaber crystals. So rather than different crystals, could they all not now represent different types of attunement? Or maybe role=playing opportunities. For instance, if one wanted to attune his crystal as a krayt dragon pearl, one would have to trek to Tatooine and track down a krayt dragon or the remains of one and meditate or some such process in order to attune it?

No, it doesn't wipe out the different crystals, it just lumps them all together into a specific family of crystal type: Kyber crystals. Each type is still unique with its own specific properties and where they can be found.

So the new canon all but wipes out all the different types of lightsaber crystals. So rather than different crystals, could they all not now represent different types of attunement? Or maybe role=playing opportunities. For instance, if one wanted to attune his crystal as a krayt dragon pearl, one would have to trek to Tatooine and track down a krayt dragon or the remains of one and meditate or some such process in order to attune it?

No, it doesn't wipe out the different crystals, it just lumps them all together into a specific family of crystal type: Kyber crystals. Each type is still unique with its own specific properties and where they can be found.

And to be fair, back in Legends material (outside of video games), for the most part having different types of crystals (back then, you could use any type of crystal and be good) in your lightsaber didn't impact what the lightsaber did. About the only major exception was the lambent crystal that Anakin Solo used, but that simply let him detect the Vong through the Force, something that wasn't possible to do at that point in the New Jedi Order series. Closest thing to a variant crystal in the current canon is the flawed kyber crystal that Kylo Ren uses in his lightsaber, but that's less a variant and more a damaged version of the stock kyber crystal.

So as far as the general canon is concerned, a crystal is a crystal is a crystal, and they'd all have the same exact stats. However, gamers being what we are, we generally like variety when it comes to gear, and thus additional options for kyber crystals are presented.

So the new canon all but wipes out all the different types of lightsaber crystals. So rather than different crystals, could they all not now represent different types of attunement? Or maybe role=playing opportunities. For instance, if one wanted to attune his crystal as a krayt dragon pearl, one would have to trek to Tatooine and track down a krayt dragon or the remains of one and meditate or some such process in order to attune it?

No, it doesn't wipe out the different crystals, it just lumps them all together into a specific family of crystal type: Kyber crystals. Each type is still unique with its own specific properties and where they can be found.

And to be fair, back in Legends material (outside of video games), for the most part having different types of crystals (back then, you could use any type of crystal and be good) in your lightsaber didn't impact what the lightsaber did. About the only major exception was the lambent crystal that Anakin Solo used, but that simply let him detect the Vong through the Force, something that wasn't possible to do at that point in the New Jedi Order series. Closest thing to a variant crystal in the current canon is the flawed kyber crystal that Kylo Ren uses in his lightsaber, but that's less a variant and more a damaged version of the stock kyber crystal.

So as far as the general canon is concerned, a crystal is a crystal is a crystal, and they'd all have the same exact stats. However, gamers being what we are, we generally like variety when it comes to gear, and thus additional options for kyber crystals are presented.

Not exactly, Adegan Crystals did have different effects from the get go. The original Tales of the Jedi Sourcebook for D6 specifically gave each type a different damage rating with Kathracite being the weakest and Pontite being the strongest (and most rare). Even in the comic, Adegans were specifically stated to be the best crystals for lightsabers. This was all well before KotOR came out

So the new canon all but wipes out all the different types of lightsaber crystals. So rather than different crystals, could they all not now represent different types of attunement? Or maybe role=playing opportunities. For instance, if one wanted to attune his crystal as a krayt dragon pearl, one would have to trek to Tatooine and track down a krayt dragon or the remains of one and meditate or some such process in order to attune it?

No, it doesn't wipe out the different crystals, it just lumps them all together into a specific family of crystal type: Kyber crystals. Each type is still unique with its own specific properties and where they can be found.

And to be fair, back in Legends material (outside of video games), for the most part having different types of crystals (back then, you could use any type of crystal and be good) in your lightsaber didn't impact what the lightsaber did. About the only major exception was the lambent crystal that Anakin Solo used, but that simply let him detect the Vong through the Force, something that wasn't possible to do at that point in the New Jedi Order series. Closest thing to a variant crystal in the current canon is the flawed kyber crystal that Kylo Ren uses in his lightsaber, but that's less a variant and more a damaged version of the stock kyber crystal.

So as far as the general canon is concerned, a crystal is a crystal is a crystal, and they'd all have the same exact stats. However, gamers being what we are, we generally like variety when it comes to gear, and thus additional options for kyber crystals are presented.

Not exactly, Adegan Crystals did have different effects from the get go. The original Tales of the Jedi Sourcebook for D6 specifically gave each type a different damage rating with Kathracite being the weakest and Pontite being the strongest (and most rare). Even in the comic, Adegans were specifically stated to be the best crystals for lightsabers. This was all well before KotOR came out

The only thing Adegans did was change the damage code, and even then they were a remote option only mentioned in a single splat that a number of GMs just ignored and stuck with the basic "lightsaber damage = 5D."

Point remains that outside of video games and FFG's RPGs, your choice in 'saber crystal didn't matter, where as in those sources a 'saber crystal could add things like literally setting your foe on fire, having an easier time cleaving through bulkheads, or making you a better healer or negotiator. None of which was seen in the more mainstream novels and comic books, where a lightsaber crystal was indistinguishable from any other lightsaber crystal no matter what source it came from.

So the new canon all but wipes out all the different types of lightsaber crystals. So rather than different crystals, could they all not now represent different types of attunement? Or maybe role=playing opportunities. For instance, if one wanted to attune his crystal as a krayt dragon pearl, one would have to trek to Tatooine and track down a krayt dragon or the remains of one and meditate or some such process in order to attune it?

No, it doesn't wipe out the different crystals, it just lumps them all together into a specific family of crystal type: Kyber crystals. Each type is still unique with its own specific properties and where they can be found.

And to be fair, back in Legends material (outside of video games), for the most part having different types of crystals (back then, you could use any type of crystal and be good) in your lightsaber didn't impact what the lightsaber did. About the only major exception was the lambent crystal that Anakin Solo used, but that simply let him detect the Vong through the Force, something that wasn't possible to do at that point in the New Jedi Order series. Closest thing to a variant crystal in the current canon is the flawed kyber crystal that Kylo Ren uses in his lightsaber, but that's less a variant and more a damaged version of the stock kyber crystal.

So as far as the general canon is concerned, a crystal is a crystal is a crystal, and they'd all have the same exact stats. However, gamers being what we are, we generally like variety when it comes to gear, and thus additional options for kyber crystals are presented.

Not exactly, Adegan Crystals did have different effects from the get go. The original Tales of the Jedi Sourcebook for D6 specifically gave each type a different damage rating with Kathracite being the weakest and Pontite being the strongest (and most rare). Even in the comic, Adegans were specifically stated to be the best crystals for lightsabers. This was all well before KotOR came out

The only thing Adegans did was change the damage code, and even then they were a remote option only mentioned in a single splat that a number of GMs just ignored and stuck with the basic "lightsaber damage = 5D."

Point remains that outside of video games and FFG's RPGs, your choice in 'saber crystal didn't matter, where as in those sources a 'saber crystal could add things like literally setting your foe on fire, having an easier time cleaving through bulkheads, or making you a better healer or negotiator. None of which was seen in the more mainstream novels and comic books, where a lightsaber crystal was indistinguishable from any other lightsaber crystal no matter what source it came from.

While some of the more "exotoc" effects you refer to may be accurate, the point about Adegan crystals remains. The damage increases from the WEG suppliemnt were based upon information from the original comics, which made it clear that Adegans were better crystals for use in a lightsaber than anything else. Thus, there is a quantifiable difference between them and other lightsaber crystals that made Adegan Crystals the "best" crystals for use in a lightsaber. One of the key things numerous sources from the old canon said was that Adegans had a greater connection to the Force when imbued (this is why Mephite can be sensed with the Sense power when used in a lightsaber). So, I'd say it's not so much that the non-game sources make all crystals out to be the same so much as what effects different crystals provide may not necessarily translate visually, but can only be shown through some form of technical stats, which games are very good at providing.

So the new canon all but wipes out all the different types of lightsaber crystals. So rather than different crystals, could they all not now represent different types of attunement? Or maybe role=playing opportunities. For instance, if one wanted to attune his crystal as a krayt dragon pearl, one would have to trek to Tatooine and track down a krayt dragon or the remains of one and meditate or some such process in order to attune it?

It's an idea, one that one of my online gaming buddies and I have discussed.

That rather than having to go hunting at exotic locations for certain types of crystals, the PC simply obtains a kyber crystal, and then chooses what sort of effects it has. I sort of did that with awarding the Soresu Defender in my FaD game a Lorrdian Gemstone as a personal reward, as the player had made it very clear early on that was the type of crystal he wanted for his character.

I could see this as being problematic from a game play perspective, as it makes some of the more costly/hard-to-acquire crystals a lot more common that what was probably intended by the writers. Ilum crystals are a nice baseline, but why bother with those when you can just say your kyber crystal is a Krayt Dragon Pearl or an Etaan crystal or some other exotic, hard-to-find type?

I suppose as long as the player and GM have an open discussion, and the player is willing to not get too greedy in terms of what sort of effects their newly acquired kyber crystal has, it could work.

Yes.

From how it seems crystal finding works, in canon and for Jedi, is that you "listen" for it, you sense it and then have to find it... in-game this could be a Discipline or Knowledge (Lore) or some other check - fitting character concept and type of crystal the player wants. The difficulty could be based on rarity, and perhaps also if it has any particular special qualities beyond the normal weapon qualities this could further modify the check... of course this means the character's difficulty is based on the player's desires... not necessarily a great idea. But this combined with location, could easily form an outline for the quest to obtain the crystal.

Also, it seems you can only find "your" crystal, which means crystal hoarding and looting isn't really going to work... ok you can still loot them, but if it's not "your" crystal you have to bend it to your will, making it red... an action in itself that could easily warrant a number of conflict.