The thing is for every tournament player there will be 10s if not 100s of casual gamers you will never see, because they will be playing at home with their mates over a pizza.

True, but nigeltastic's point is still accurate. While I think there's a ton of ways to play X-Wing, epic, missions, HotAC, 150 point, ect...

It's clear that FFG considers the 100/6 format to be the default and official one. Also we have no way of knowing if all those people playing at home are playing 100/6 or epic or what. It's a logical flaw to assume anything about the format they're playing.

As far as the OP goes, it's no different than every other 'I quit' post you see on a MMO board... The whole point is to take a parting shot at the game and community.

I also have to agree that anyone who quits the game because they can't find anyone to play the format they wish to play, quite frankly have themselves to blame... Unless we accept that 100/6 is in fact the way the vast majority of people prefer to play.

I mean if there's this unseen hoard of casual players who don't care for 100/6... Then it shouldn't be that hard to find them at LGS's or Facebook or something. Myself I think they're out there, just people aren't willing to do what it takes to hook up with them.

I suppose I should have made it more clear I don't actually have any spite for 'casual' play be it scenarios, epic, furballs, whatever, they're fun enough. I certainly prefer 100/6 but I mostly meant to express my amusement when '100/6ers' are looked down upon even though they play the format that ffg seems to devote the most effort to (hence the large faq and tournament guidelines, tournament structure, etc).

OK....I just went through and re-read everyone's post in this thread. At what point does anyone "look down" on 100/6ers? I just went through each thread and couldn't find a comment that could be considered a negative comment towards people who play 100/6 games. I did find negative comments from people who do play 100/6 games, though.

At what point does anyone "look down" on 100/6ers?

You don't think calling people fanboys is intended to be negative?

Plus no matter how valid the OP's points are, when you start off a thread with that kind of passive aggressive tone, people are going to respond accordingly.

For tournament play you need a official format so people can get together with the least fuss and get on with it. It just so happens that the arbitrary point they chose 100/6.. But there are still multiple formats for tournaments. In the last week I've seen doubles and escalation tournaments advertised. I do think there is a problem that as soon as Worlds and Regional declare at 100/6 a lot of tournament players will automatically assume that is the way to play. Which ofc can lead to burn out.

I'm not saying that the person in question doesn't have a reason to feel negatively about it. I just think it's maybe a little hypocritical to openly post your negative thoughts and at the end of it proactively call out all the negative responses that you know you're going to get as an example of the community not flying casually. I don't play competitively at all, but i certainly don't think any less of those that do and i definitely don't for a second think that they a ruining x-wing for me. I can find individuals like me that just want to have fun and play with our ships the way we choose. I can be the change that i want to see. There are several examples on these forums of a positive way to go about things, such as yourself developing a TIE punisher mission to have fun with a friend that loves those ships (as competitively awful as they are). Berating casual players probably take more shots at competitive players than vice versa on this forum. Competitive players, tournaments, and the 100/6 forum aren't ruining x-wing. They are helping it continue to grow. Doesn't mean we all have to play that way, but it certainly isn't damaging to the game.

Yes, I agree with you, but I try to take everyone's post with a grain of salt. It is the internet and people do like to be bombastic when not facing a real person. I also agree that it's not the most helpful way to get what you want. I still prefer to look at it as someone who wishes it were different. I just want to help them find some games of X-wing where they enjoy it.

I mean if there's this unseen hoard of casual players who don't care for 100/6... Then it shouldn't be that hard to find them at LGS's or Facebook or something. Myself I think they're out there, just people aren't willing to do what it takes to hook up with them.

Well....to play Devil's Advocate here...it can be hard to reach those people. They aren't usually the ones who show up every week night at the LGS as they long ago learned that it isn't the place for them. Oh....I think you do need to work for it, but these types of gamers tend to be lurkers and such. Also, finding people right after tournament season to play a non 100/6 game is a lot easier than in the middle of practice season. It can be a challenge to find people, based on how your local scene works. I started a metro wide FB group for all X-wingers. Some places tend to focus only on store specific stuff. Maybe not everyone is on the same social media. I do know some casual Luddites who don't use social media at all, too. I found you really need to spend some effort to find the right people to play with. I agree with you overall, but just wanted to bring up counter points.

Part of the problem is that when you're playing against strangers, that having a standardised form of play (in this case 100/6) makes it easier to organise games. If you want to play other formats you really need to start looking on Facebook for local gaming groups, and arranging those games before-hand and for special occasions. The store game night is really not a place for casual gamers.

That is part of the problem with many things. Joining a club is a form of commitment, people don't like those. Organizing games requires some sort of ability to organize your schedule even outside of your job. Which makes X-Wing a hobby and not just random leizure time. Lastly, far too many people are shy. If your fleet is small and your list is crap 99% of the X-Wing community have no issue with lending out ships and dials, using proxies and just having fun with not so meta lists.

Every single competitive player has lists in his mind which are not part of the meta, but deserve testing. And they all are ready to test them and are even more happy when they can actually test them against meta lists which they already own.

Fly casual.

Having worked in retail it's really easy to get an idea about what they are playing. Bill pops in and you chat to them, and they tell you of the cool game they had at the weekend. Also I quite often end up getting invited over to casual gaming nights as, you would never guess it but, I'm actually quite friendly.

I do think there is a problem that as soon as Worlds and Regional declare at 100/6 a lot of tournament players will automatically assume that is the way to play.

100/6 was really the default way to play since the game came out, and that was some time before worlds or regionals.

I do think there is a problem that as soon as Worlds and Regional declare at 100/6 a lot of tournament players will automatically assume that is the way to play.

100/6 was really the default way to play since the game came out, and that was some time before worlds or regionals.

Actually, the game came with 3 missions before a tournament system was ever introduced....

I just want to help them find some games of X-wing where they enjoy it.

I'd dare say that most everyone here feels the same way. But the OP wasn't looking for advice on how to find what they wanted, they came here to complain and take a shot at the community.

Well....to play Devil's Advocate here...it can be hard to reach those people.

Sure it is, but based on your own experiences it's not impossible. I find that in nearly every case where someone quits playing X-Wing because they can't find 'casual games' that they have done nothing more than show up at the LGS.

While 100/6 is not the only to play and clearly not what everyone wants, it's also the default format so it's going to be the one most played for pickup games. If you want to play something else you have to put some effort into finding that... Effort like you've made, or effort (and money) that I've made to get a HotAC campaign going at my LGS.

If I am able to get a weekly league going at my LGS which is in a little town an hour away from the St. Paul area... With a dozen or so LGS' including the FFG Event Center... Then I have little sympathy for someone who can't find a game.

Also I quite often end up getting invited over to casual gaming nights as, you would never guess it but, I'm actually quite friendly.

Actually I'd have no trouble believing that. But your point reinforces mine... If there's all these people out there, and they don't like playing 100/6 games, then it shouldn't be that hard to organize something for them all to get together and play how they want.

Actually, the game came with 3 missions before a tournament system was ever introduced....

That's not true, yes it came with 3 missions but the standard game was a 100 point DM.

Winning the Game

When one player destroys all of his opponent’s ships, the game ends and that player wins. If playing a mission, refer to its victory conditions.

Edit: For some reason I couldn't get the quote to format correctly...

I just want to help them find some games of X-wing where they enjoy it.

I'd dare say that most everyone here feels the same way. But the OP wasn't looking for advice on how to find what they wanted, they came here to complain and take a shot at the community.

Well....to play Devil's Advocate here...it can be hard to reach those people.

Sure it is, but based on your own experiences it's not impossible. I find that in nearly every case where someone quits playing X-Wing because they can't find 'casual games' that they have done nothing more than show up at the LGS.

Then I have little sympathy for someone who can't find a game.

Yes, taking pot shots at the community isn't a good thing. Doesn't mean I have to take the bait, though. Instead, I try to look at what he's really upset about. Since I like to help people who are frustrated with how the game goes, then I tend to overlook his approach.

As for those guys that never really spend much effort.....I know some of them. I consider them friends. I think they should've done more, but they didn't. I still want to help them. I do have sympathy for them. I know I'm not the average FFG forum member, though.

Doesn't mean I have to take the bait, though.

Sure, but people tend to post with a given tone based on the type of response they're looking for. If someone is trying to bait the community I see nothing wrong with calling them out on it. Ideally you should try to provide a good answer to their issue, but if you start off passive aggressive and proactively blast the community... Well it's clear what they're really trying to accomplish.

I just want to help them find some games of X-wing where they enjoy it.

I'd dare say that most everyone here feels the same way. But the OP wasn't looking for advice on how to find what they wanted, they came here to complain and take a shot at the community.

Exactly. I think heychadwick's response was a very helpful one aimed at trying to continue to build the community. The problem is OP could have made a similar post talking about how x-wing isn't as fun for him anymore and asked for feedback on what other people have done in his situation to make it fun again and i think the overwhelming majority of responses would have been similar to yours and JoeBoss. He instead came across as whining and took a veiled shot at the tournament community and FFG for ruining the game and went on the defensive for the responses he knew his negative post was going to draw. If he meant for his comments to be benign he wouldn't have immediately expected backlash. His post put him far more in the camp of the type of community that he's calling out at the end then it does of someone like Heychadwick that is clearly trying to be helpful.

As for people who won't put in the effort to find the game they want... That's on them. Perhaps it's not worth the effort to them. A friend of mine plays from time to time, but owns like one core set himself.

For him, it's not worth the effort to find games because he enjoys it but not enough to go that far. I'm sure there's plenty of people out there like that, that would be happy to play but not willing to put in the effort to get something going.

But those people also don't come here to post about how X-Wing has had the fun sucked out of it... If someone cares enough to come here and post, then they should IMO at least be willing to put in enough effort to try and start a community that suits them.

Consider me like that unmarried female friend/relative that LOVES cats a little too much and dedicates lots of personal time to rescuing cats that are really too far gone. They have their house filled with mean and nasty cats that will claw you to pieces. The house also smells of cat urine. Still, they dedicate themselves to helping the poorest and worst case cats.

I want to help people that are frustrated with how 100/6 X-wing is and I want to show that there are alternative ways to play the game that are actually fun. Yes, I consider it a lost cause!

I want to help people that are frustrated with how 100/6 X-wing is and I want to show that there are alternative ways to play the game that are actually fun. Yes, I consider it a lost cause!

And I admire and respect your desire to do so. Maybe the OP will actually read some of the posts here and realize that half or more of the problem is his/her own attitude and something positive will happen. Maybe someone else will see it and they can avoid getting burned out... I like to believe that any thread no matter how poorly started or how obvious a troll can lead to something positive.

But at the same time I recognize that someone makes a post like the OP of this thread, they're not looking for answers or advice they're looking to take a shoot people.

You can't help someone who doesn't want to be helped...

Today is a day that will live in... well for me infamy. I haven't really played X-Wing for 10 months now, and honestly it's made me happy. I used to really like X-Wing, flying different ships, Y-Wings, X-Wings, seeing the new faction, but then it kept getting bigger.... and more new cards came, and more new cards, and the fifth iteration of the tie fighter, and then the resistance and the first order, and now the Patch today. Not only did X-Wing price me out with how much you have to buy, but it lack-of-funned (real word) me out.

X-Wing simply isn't fun anymore. If you don't buy everything the day it comes out you are already behind. There is no casual play, it's all tournament or league play and everyone has their META build and never deviate because they have to get ready for store, or regional, or national or World tournaments. I mean you used to not be able to get on here without seeing Fly Casual, not I'm not even sure that exists.

X-Wing is just simply too big now. There are too many cards, ships, combos (and yet most still only use one) and I refuse to continue buying three of one ships to get the card and never use the ships. How many B-Wings do I have, or Y-Wings. How many First Order Ties.

Maybe one day I will play X-Wing with the old ships, but sadly now they just collect dust while I enjoy other games.

I guess in a way this is a call for nostalgia and that maybe the game can revert to what it once was, hopeful thinking.

(I'm sure the comments for this will be glorious, because not only has the play not been casual but this forum has been a mine field)

Hey mate, ignore the fanboys in this thread. You're not the only one to feel this way. The game started becoming bloated a while ago and it's turning into a lumbering behemoth now, in desperate need of a second edition.

I got into X Wing because I love Star Wars. But there's precious little Star Wars to be found in the 'standard' X Wing games. So my advice to you, as someone who probably loves Star Wars too, is to stop playing 100/6 games altogether. They suck the fun out the game faster than something that sucks really fast. Instead try running a HotAC campaign, then run through the campaigns that come with the huge ships, play some Epic games, then just start playing games at random points levels. Like 150 points, 600 points, 400 points, whatever. X Wing is a great game and it has the potential to be heaps of fun, but if you only ever play 100/6 games then you're only playing the most boring, shallow aspect of the game. Once you step aside from the PvP competitive meta, the game really flourishes again. Not least because you don't NEED all the new bells and whistles to stay at the cutting edge of whatever the meta-of-the-month is. The real trick is finding like-minded opponents to play with. As you observe, too many people are obsessed with playing 100/6 at the exclusion of all else. Use Facebook to find like-minded gamers and talk to people in your group who you might suspect are feeling the same way.

I fully agree with the OPs sentiements (the game is too, big, too patched up, too unvieldy and too expensive for what it is IMHO) But I also agree with the above: Stop playing 100 points featureless, themeless boxingmatches and start playing Star Wars.. HoTAC, some of the awsome campaigns and Missions at Mission Control(Cheers to Babaganoosh!), the Dagobahdave Trench Run mission and epic games.. Suddenly the X-wing is a thing of beauty! The B-Wing rules the voids etc..

I understand his frustration and honestly I have felt some of the same but I still like X-Wing.

I've been to an LGS where everyone is testing their tournament build. I do like having the ships and authentic cards and that is getting expensive. The game is adding depth (read getting complex) and to the point where the FAQ is 21 pages and without the FAQ the cards you purchased on the ships you don't play are just wrong.

But for all that I enjoy the Star Wars universe. I love X-Wing, I don't own multiple Scouts and won't play with multiples. If you think I'm a butt for that then I'm sorry. That isn't my attempt. I do want to play X-Wing casual and with missions. I do wish FFG would come out with more missions with suggested squads.

So to counter this I am buying less and less. But having the odd effect of actually playing more. I use less cards in the builds. Less interactions, more missions based goals when possible and still trying to put together an Epic game I see it on the horizon. In other words I'm having more fun.

Generally I would say when a group of people is consistently called 'fan boys' and the way they choose to play the game is repeatedly derided (called boring, unimaginative, sucking the fun out of things, etc) that strikes me as looking down upon that group of people. While that may not be the intent I think it's easy enough to see how these statements could be interpreted. As an example if I called epic play a ridiculous waste of time and space and casual trench run scenarios childish grasping at recreating movie scenes that might be seen as derision towards casual play (and casual players), no?

I feel like you totally misunderstood the point of that movie or you missed the ending.

I guess, not everyone gets Kubrick or Sellers

I understand his frustration and honestly I have felt some of the same but I still like X-Wing.

I've been to an LGS where everyone is testing their tournament build. I do like having the ships and authentic cards and that is getting expensive. The game is adding depth (read getting complex) and to the point where the FAQ is 21 pages and without the FAQ the cards you purchased on the ships you don't play are just wrong.

But for all that I enjoy the Star Wars universe. I love X-Wing, I don't own multiple Scouts and won't play with multiples. If you think I'm a butt for that then I'm sorry. That isn't my attempt. I do want to play X-Wing casual and with missions. I do wish FFG would come out with more missions with suggested squads.

So to counter this I am buying less and less. But having the odd effect of actually playing more. I use less cards in the builds. Less interactions, more missions based goals when possible and still trying to put together an Epic game I see it on the horizon. In other words I'm having more fun.

I understand his frustration and honestly I have felt some of the same but I still like X-Wing.

I've been to an LGS where everyone is testing their tournament build. I do like having the ships and authentic cards and that is getting expensive. The game is adding depth (read getting complex) and to the point where the FAQ is 21 pages and without the FAQ the cards you purchased on the ships you don't play are just wrong.

But for all that I enjoy the Star Wars universe. I love X-Wing, I don't own multiple Scouts and won't play with multiples. If you think I'm a butt for that then I'm sorry. That isn't my attempt. I do want to play X-Wing casual and with missions. I do wish FFG would come out with more missions with suggested squads.

So to counter this I am buying less and less. But having the odd effect of actually playing more. I use less cards in the builds. Less interactions, more missions based goals when possible and still trying to put together an Epic game I see it on the horizon. In other words I'm having more fun.

And that's fun for you. For me, fun is creating a list that has a lot of intricate interactions, and seeing it all come together and work when playing. In otherwords, most the types of things I fly will be more oriented around competitive lists. I think people need to realize more that fun is highly subjective. For some people, 100/6 Tournament Deathmatches are fun, others Epic or Team Epic, others the missions. There's nothing wrong with being a casual player, or a tournament player, it really comes down to what you enjoy. Then find people who enjoy the same thing you do, and play with them.

Unfortunately, people like the OP don't look for the players that share common interests, throw a fit about how the game sucks, and take shots at the community.

(I only read the OP)

I hope you get the other things in your life back on track too. The "other things" in life are what make people happy. Games are for entertainment. And the goal of entertainment is to have fun. If you're not happy- you can't have fun. And if your entertainment is overwhelming how can anyone have fun? X-wing can be played in very simple forms or it can be played in a detailed rule based tournament setting with highly skilled and enthusiastic "hard core" players.

My advice to anyone who isn't having fun playing X-wing: play more games with friends(no tournaments with strangers) that do not follow the tournament rule set like Missions or Epic ....and stop listening/watching to "tactical and competitive" x-wing podcasts and YouTube videos.

Last year I posted on FFG forums about how my doctors advised that I play X-wing everyday for my health. (I have anxiety disorder and depression along with a few other major health problems.) I still don't play every single day, but I tinker with in my hobby on a regular basis and now I am off 5 medications now- I lost 40 pounds and I no longer need a cane to walk. I only play in tournaments every once in awhile to get participation prizes- I just fly a fun list.

I haven't played in months. My collection, divided over three factions is in a box.

Quit? No.

Just moved 1,5 years ago to an area that is quite a distance for my regular groop. With two young kids I haven't taken the time to meet new opponents.

My factions need few additions to keep a balanced set when I open the box. Whether within one week or one year.

Though mr. Graves might strive to prevent the latter

Quit....no

Buy everything. ...no

Ditch the game... hell no!