Imho the faq of R4 was enough already to prevent to magic 4 autohits that came from Proton Torps + reroll + GC.

Seems that other players still had really big issues with u-boat lists.

Nerfing Deadeye is a bit over the top for my taste.

But well - there you have it!

Teethless Scouts.

I'm with you on that. But I suppose the knowledge that it's still a meta list, even if it's not as wide spread as it used to be, is enough to keep quite a few other lists from even showing up, which is something the R4 change didn't do. Yes, most moved to the OCR4 to keep the F so they could modify the shot, but the big thing was then they couldn't do the 2 L Sloop on the lead one to line up the second volley. I think the main problem with the JM5K stems from the white left SLoop. I realize they wanted an asymetric dial - but that could have been achieved with a red left sloop, and no right sloop.

Think about it - without that white Sloop, Dengar + Zuckuss isn't nearly as scary as its much harder for Dengar to maintain arc for the revenge shot. Zuckuss still has a place on the party bus though, which is dangerous, but at PS2 and only a 3 turn, is much easier to arc dodge completely. Meanwhile, the easiest way to counter the JM15K has always been to bump the lead one - which typically means they all end up bumping. This is typically prevented by having the lead one 2 sloop out of the way, while still providing arc on the kill box (and prior to R4 nerf, you still had your F + TL for both torp shots). If it was red, you'd see the lead one peeling off and not getting a second salvo in. And this is really where the problem lies - the 2 Sloop allows the ship to pretty much maintain arc + range on the same ship, making it easy to get both torps off quickly.

Or... You could have just made GCs require Torp+Missile slots just like LRS do. I feel like bombers are supposed to have been better via LRS, but really I'd rather just go with Deadeye + GCs in all honesty. And the fact that every ship has access to GCs is just annoying to me.

Solid points and the timing is definitely bad. In the long run this is better and hopefully FFG won't make the same mistake again (oh wait, this isn't the first time - Imperial Assault).

When are they nerfing Palp?

This did.

This will bring back the Stresshog. This will bring back Rebel Regen. Stress is bad for Aces, and Regening ships is really hard for two aces to deal with. If Heroes of the Resistance had been released in time, then this would have meant the new Poe would be everywhere.

My guess is at worlds we will see Dengaroo, Palp Aces, Rebel Regen with Stress, and Ghosts. I think rebels will win.

Rebels have to win Worlds, or the Mouse gets angry!

When are they nerfing Palp?

This did.

This will bring back the Stresshog. This will bring back Rebel Regen. Stress is bad for Aces, and Regening ships is really hard for two aces to deal with. If Heroes of the Resistance had been released in time, then this would have meant the new Poe would be everywhere.

My guess is at worlds we will see Dengaroo, Palp Aces, Rebel Regen with Stress, and Ghosts. I think rebels will win.

Rebels have to win Worlds, or the Mouse gets angry!

The conspiracy is real!

Today's nerf of the contracted scout torpedo build is bad for x-wing. First off, what we saw today is something entirely new for the game of x-wing. This was not a FAQ, but a "patch". Very little rules clarifications were done, and the FAQ was used to specifically nerf the contracted scout, and biggs to a lesser degree. Why is this bad?

1. It shows that x-wing has gotten "too big for its britches". As pointed out in an excellent scum and villainy podcast recently, the complexity of the game is ratcheting up with every product release. Every new wave means thousands of interactions that need to be tested. The conclusion is the game designers are unable to accurately QA and playtest their product to avoid a critical error. The stat line on the jumpmaster being the first, with potentially more critical errors introduced with each new wave.

   I do not fault the game designers here, it seems they have 1.5 FTEs working on their highest grossing product. FFG really should inve$t in a better QA and playtesting process to protect this valuable revenue stream. Perhaps even mathematical modeling and analysis of the game dynamics and interactions to find all possible untested combinations is worth developing.

2. If you accept that this was a patch and not a rules clarification FAQ, this is a poor way to roll out patches. Weeks before the premier event in x-wing, with regionals following closely behind, many players have been practicing in earnest for weeks if not months. Many of you cheer the death of the contracted scout, but what if you had played 50 games with your scout list, in anticipation of attending worlds in a few weeks? How would you feel? What would your opinion be of x-wing and the game in general?

3. If FFG is going to roll out patches such as this, it should be on a regular schedule, perhaps yearly, and it should be announced in advance. Perhaps even the major decisions such as this should be made public before they are permanent? The triple scout or double scout + 1 list is not unbeatable, it would do little harm to let this exist a little longer in the meta.

4. The timing of this release is perhaps suspect. Going out on a limb a bit here, but why was this not announced in the summer FAQ? Clearly it has been in plans since then, as Alex Davy was on the record saying a "wave 9 hard counter to contract scouts was on the way". My guess is that FFG was not about to nerf the hottest selling SKU in their hottest game, without replacement product to be purchased. The implication being, many people bought 3 punishing one expansions, while FFG knew that the list would be nerfed once there was something else for us to buy. I think this is bad business and is shortsighted, if it is true.

What are your thoughts? Am I wrong?

Whether it was right or wrong to adjust Deadeye isn't what has me most concerned. I understand why they did it, I get it. The big problem I have with the Deadeye change is the timing. It's a massive change to the meta 2.5 weeks before Worlds. I think that's too soon, and frankly doesn't give people enough time to adjust. Some people were practicing with Deadeye Scouts. Some people were practicing lists that they knew could handle the threat of the Deadeye Scout. A good portion of that practice and consideration that was put into list building for Worlds was wasted by those players.

That's fine as long as we are all playing under the same conditions. All's fair then. But, is it? Yes, the community at large found out about the Deadeye change, and it's atomic bomb impact on the meta, yesterday. But, is that when everyone found out about it? Did the playtesters know about this change before the community at large? They did. And that's the big problem. That creates a very lopsided situation. Those that knew of the Deadeye nerf were building their lists and practicing much differently than those that didn't.

If I had been practicing with Deadeye scouts for Worlds (I wasn't) and learned yesterday that all my practice and prep was wasted, I'd be furious. I'd be even more furious to find out that a small group of privileged attendees at Worlds knew about the change well before I did.

FFG could have made the change official yesterday but with an announcement weeks ago. They absolutely should have given the larger community more time to adjust before Worlds. Look, playtesters are always going to know things before everyone else, that's life. If the playtesters knew 3 months ago, and the rest of the community knew 2 months ago, then it's not a problem, everyone has time to adjust. That's not what happened here. Playtesters knew with enough time to adequately prep for Worlds and Regionals, but the larger community did not have adequate time to react.

This is a fail by FFG. It has nothing to do with changes to the game, or if they should or should not have nerfed Deadeye. The fail lies in creating a smaller group of players that is more prepared for the premier tournament than everyone else.

When are they nerfing Palp?

This did.

This will bring back the Stresshog. This will bring back Rebel Regen. Stress is bad for Aces, and Regening ships is really hard for two aces to deal with. If Heroes of the Resistance had been released in time, then this would have meant the new Poe would be everywhere.

My guess is at worlds we will see Dengaroo, Palp Aces, Rebel Regen with Stress, and Ghosts. I think rebels will win.

While I agree on those lists being quite common at Worlds, those rebel lists are not problematic for palp 'aces' anymore. They will include defenders now with X-7 (did not exist back when stresshog + rebel regen was big). X-7 backed by palp has a far better jousting potential than rebel regen with or without stresshog, unless Biggs gets thrown in. But if the rebel player uses Biggs, its risky now, since there will be an increase in ordnance based lists at Worlds, despite the deletion of triple deadeye scouts.

I think on paper, Palp Aces has the fewest 'bad matchups' (assuming at least 1 X-7 defender) and even edges out Dengaroo in theory (player skill is always a factor of course). Rebels are of course better overall thanks to this FAQ, but I will be honestly, truly surprised if Rebels win Worlds this year

Besides, I have a feeling Mr Heaver will run Scum this year. So there's that too

Today's nerf of the contracted scout torpedo build is bad for x-wing. First off, what we saw today is something entirely new for the game of x-wing. This was not a FAQ, but a "patch". Very little rules clarifications were done, and the FAQ was used to specifically nerf the contracted scout, and biggs to a lesser degree. Why is this bad?

1. It shows that x-wing has gotten "too big for its britches". As pointed out in an excellent scum and villainy podcast recently, the complexity of the game is ratcheting up with every product release. Every new wave means thousands of interactions that need to be tested. The conclusion is the game designers are unable to accurately QA and playtest their product to avoid a critical error. The stat line on the jumpmaster being the first, with potentially more critical errors introduced with each new wave.

   I do not fault the game designers here, it seems they have 1.5 FTEs working on their highest grossing product. FFG really should inve$t in a better QA and playtesting process to protect this valuable revenue stream. Perhaps even mathematical modeling and analysis of the game dynamics and interactions to find all possible untested combinations is worth developing.

2. If you accept that this was a patch and not a rules clarification FAQ, this is a poor way to roll out patches. Weeks before the premier event in x-wing, with regionals following closely behind, many players have been practicing in earnest for weeks if not months. Many of you cheer the death of the contracted scout, but what if you had played 50 games with your scout list, in anticipation of attending worlds in a few weeks? How would you feel? What would your opinion be of x-wing and the game in general?

3. If FFG is going to roll out patches such as this, it should be on a regular schedule, perhaps yearly, and it should be announced in advance. Perhaps even the major decisions such as this should be made public before they are permanent? The triple scout or double scout + 1 list is not unbeatable, it would do little harm to let this exist a little longer in the meta.

4. The timing of this release is perhaps suspect. Going out on a limb a bit here, but why was this not announced in the summer FAQ? Clearly it has been in plans since then, as Alex Davy was on the record saying a "wave 9 hard counter to contract scouts was on the way". My guess is that FFG was not about to nerf the hottest selling SKU in their hottest game, without replacement product to be purchased. The implication being, many people bought 3 punishing one expansions, while FFG knew that the list would be nerfed once there was something else for us to buy. I think this is bad business and is shortsighted, if it is true.

What are your thoughts? Am I wrong?

Whether it was right or wrong to adjust Deadeye isn't what has me most concerned. I understand why they did it, I get it. The big problem I have with the Deadeye change is the timing. It's a massive change to the meta 2.5 weeks before Worlds. I think that's too soon, and frankly doesn't give people enough time to adjust. Some people were practicing with Deadeye Scouts. Some people were practicing lists that they knew could handle the threat of the Deadeye Scout. A good portion of that practice and consideration that was put into list building for Worlds was wasted by those players.

That's fine as long as we are all playing under the same conditions. All's fair then. But, is it? Yes, the community at large found out about the Deadeye change, and it's atomic bomb impact on the meta, yesterday. But, is that when everyone found out about it? Did the playtesters know about this change before the community at large? They did. And that's the big problem. That creates a very lopsided situation. Those that knew of the Deadeye nerf were building their lists and practicing much differently than those that didn't.

If I had been practicing with Deadeye scouts for Worlds (I wasn't) and learned yesterday that all my practice and prep was wasted, I'd be furious. I'd be even more furious to find out that a small group of privileged attendees at Worlds knew about the change well before I did.

FFG could have made the change official yesterday but with an announcement weeks ago. They absolutely should have given the larger community more time to adjust before Worlds. Look, playtesters are always going to know things before everyone else, that's life. If the playtesters knew 3 months ago, and the rest of the community knew 2 months ago, then it's not a problem, everyone has time to adjust. That's not what happened here. Playtesters knew with enough time to adequately prep for Worlds and Regionals, but the larger community did not have adequate time to react.

This is a fail by FFG. It has nothing to do with changes to the game, or if they should or should not have nerfed Deadeye. The fail lies in creating a smaller group of players that is more prepared for the premier tournament than everyone else.

The amount of playtesters who make top cuts are already above the ratio of playtesters to non playtesters. This is a clear cut competitive advantage to anyone who is a playtester. They likely have known for at least a month.

1. It shows that x-wing has gotten "too big for its britches". As pointed out in an excellent scum and villainy podcast recently, the complexity of the game is ratcheting up with every product release. Every new wave means thousands of interactions that need to be tested. The conclusion is the game designers are unable to accurately QA and playtest their product to avoid a critical error. The stat line on the jumpmaster being the first, with potentially more critical errors introduced with each new wave.

   I do not fault the game designers here, it seems they have 1.5 FTEs working on their highest grossing product. FFG really should inve$t in a better QA and playtesting process to protect this valuable revenue stream. Perhaps even mathematical modeling and analysis of the game dynamics and interactions to find all possible untested combinations is worth developing.

They should employ Jimbonx. He would fix their broken game.

4. The timing of this release is perhaps suspect. Going out on a limb a bit here, but why was this not announced in the summer FAQ? Clearly it has been in plans since then, as Alex Davy was on the record saying a "wave 9 hard counter to contract scouts was on the way". My guess is that FFG was not about to nerf the hottest selling SKU in their hottest game, without replacement product to be purchased. The implication being, many people bought 3 punishing one expansions, while FFG knew that the list would be nerfed once there was something else for us to buy. I think this is bad business and is shortsighted, if it is true.

Well, you're the first person to figure out the correct "hard counter" to u-boats. The FAQ!

In all seriousness; I agree with your points about game design and business model. However I do think this will do some good for the game as a whole. I just hope it's not something that's going to be regularly repeated.

Today's nerf of the contracted scout torpedo build is bad for x-wing. First off, what we saw today is something entirely new for the game of x-wing. This was not a FAQ, but a "patch". Very little rules clarifications were done, and the FAQ was used to specifically nerf the contracted scout, and biggs to a lesser degree. Why is this bad?

1. It shows that x-wing has gotten "too big for its britches". As pointed out in an excellent scum and villainy podcast recently, the complexity of the game is ratcheting up with every product release. Every new wave means thousands of interactions that need to be tested. The conclusion is the game designers are unable to accurately QA and playtest their product to avoid a critical error. The stat line on the jumpmaster being the first, with potentially more critical errors introduced with each new wave.

   I do not fault the game designers here, it seems they have 1.5 FTEs working on their highest grossing product. FFG really should inve$t in a better QA and playtesting process to protect this valuable revenue stream. Perhaps even mathematical modeling and analysis of the game dynamics and interactions to find all possible untested combinations is worth developing.

2. If you accept that this was a patch and not a rules clarification FAQ, this is a poor way to roll out patches. Weeks before the premier event in x-wing, with regionals following closely behind, many players have been practicing in earnest for weeks if not months. Many of you cheer the death of the contracted scout, but what if you had played 50 games with your scout list, in anticipation of attending worlds in a few weeks? How would you feel? What would your opinion be of x-wing and the game in general?

3. If FFG is going to roll out patches such as this, it should be on a regular schedule, perhaps yearly, and it should be announced in advance. Perhaps even the major decisions such as this should be made public before they are permanent? The triple scout or double scout + 1 list is not unbeatable, it would do little harm to let this exist a little longer in the meta.

4. The timing of this release is perhaps suspect. Going out on a limb a bit here, but why was this not announced in the summer FAQ? Clearly it has been in plans since then, as Alex Davy was on the record saying a "wave 9 hard counter to contract scouts was on the way". My guess is that FFG was not about to nerf the hottest selling SKU in their hottest game, without replacement product to be purchased. The implication being, many people bought 3 punishing one expansions, while FFG knew that the list would be nerfed once there was something else for us to buy. I think this is bad business and is shortsighted, if it is true.

What are your thoughts? Am I wrong?

Whether it was right or wrong to adjust Deadeye isn't what has me most concerned. I understand why they did it, I get it. The big problem I have with the Deadeye change is the timing. It's a massive change to the meta 2.5 weeks before Worlds. I think that's too soon, and frankly doesn't give people enough time to adjust. Some people were practicing with Deadeye Scouts. Some people were practicing lists that they knew could handle the threat of the Deadeye Scout. A good portion of that practice and consideration that was put into list building for Worlds was wasted by those players.

That's fine as long as we are all playing under the same conditions. All's fair then. But, is it? Yes, the community at large found out about the Deadeye change, and it's atomic bomb impact on the meta, yesterday. But, is that when everyone found out about it? Did the playtesters know about this change before the community at large? They did. And that's the big problem. That creates a very lopsided situation. Those that knew of the Deadeye nerf were building their lists and practicing much differently than those that didn't.

If I had been practicing with Deadeye scouts for Worlds (I wasn't) and learned yesterday that all my practice and prep was wasted, I'd be furious. I'd be even more furious to find out that a small group of privileged attendees at Worlds knew about the change well before I did.

FFG could have made the change official yesterday but with an announcement weeks ago. They absolutely should have given the larger community more time to adjust before Worlds. Look, playtesters are always going to know things before everyone else, that's life. If the playtesters knew 3 months ago, and the rest of the community knew 2 months ago, then it's not a problem, everyone has time to adjust. That's not what happened here. Playtesters knew with enough time to adequately prep for Worlds and Regionals, but the larger community did not have adequate time to react.

This is a fail by FFG. It has nothing to do with changes to the game, or if they should or should not have nerfed Deadeye. The fail lies in creating a smaller group of players that is more prepared for the premier tournament than everyone else.

The amount of playtesters who make top cuts are already above the ratio of playtesters to non playtesters. This is a clear cut competitive advantage to anyone who is a playtester. They likely have known for at least a month.

Your data doesn't have to suggest that. Aren't top players more likely to be considered as playtesters?

I'm pretty sure that most "competitive" people already know about the JM15k update beforehand ... you can't play in the competitive scene and not know a few backstage people.

I know backstage people but they don't leak info to me that spoils products or rules changes, but we did discuss the issue being deadeye in depth a while ago.

When are they nerfing Palp?

This did.

This will bring back the Stresshog. This will bring back Rebel Regen. Stress is bad for Aces, and Regening ships is really hard for two aces to deal with. If Heroes of the Resistance had been released in time, then this would have meant the new Poe would be everywhere.

My guess is at worlds we will see Dengaroo, Palp Aces, Rebel Regen with Stress, and Ghosts. I think rebels will win.

Rebels have to win Worlds, or the Mouse gets angry!

The conspiracy is real!

Today's nerf of the contracted scout torpedo build is bad for x-wing. First off, what we saw today is something entirely new for the game of x-wing. This was not a FAQ, but a "patch". Very little rules clarifications were done, and the FAQ was used to specifically nerf the contracted scout, and biggs to a lesser degree. Why is this bad?

1. It shows that x-wing has gotten "too big for its britches". As pointed out in an excellent scum and villainy podcast recently, the complexity of the game is ratcheting up with every product release. Every new wave means thousands of interactions that need to be tested. The conclusion is the game designers are unable to accurately QA and playtest their product to avoid a critical error. The stat line on the jumpmaster being the first, with potentially more critical errors introduced with each new wave.

   I do not fault the game designers here, it seems they have 1.5 FTEs working on their highest grossing product. FFG really should inve$t in a better QA and playtesting process to protect this valuable revenue stream. Perhaps even mathematical modeling and analysis of the game dynamics and interactions to find all possible untested combinations is worth developing.

2. If you accept that this was a patch and not a rules clarification FAQ, this is a poor way to roll out patches. Weeks before the premier event in x-wing, with regionals following closely behind, many players have been practicing in earnest for weeks if not months. Many of you cheer the death of the contracted scout, but what if you had played 50 games with your scout list, in anticipation of attending worlds in a few weeks? How would you feel? What would your opinion be of x-wing and the game in general?

3. If FFG is going to roll out patches such as this, it should be on a regular schedule, perhaps yearly, and it should be announced in advance. Perhaps even the major decisions such as this should be made public before they are permanent? The triple scout or double scout + 1 list is not unbeatable, it would do little harm to let this exist a little longer in the meta.

4. The timing of this release is perhaps suspect. Going out on a limb a bit here, but why was this not announced in the summer FAQ? Clearly it has been in plans since then, as Alex Davy was on the record saying a "wave 9 hard counter to contract scouts was on the way". My guess is that FFG was not about to nerf the hottest selling SKU in their hottest game, without replacement product to be purchased. The implication being, many people bought 3 punishing one expansions, while FFG knew that the list would be nerfed once there was something else for us to buy. I think this is bad business and is shortsighted, if it is true.

What are your thoughts? Am I wrong?

Whether it was right or wrong to adjust Deadeye isn't what has me most concerned. I understand why they did it, I get it. The big problem I have with the Deadeye change is the timing. It's a massive change to the meta 2.5 weeks before Worlds. I think that's too soon, and frankly doesn't give people enough time to adjust. Some people were practicing with Deadeye Scouts. Some people were practicing lists that they knew could handle the threat of the Deadeye Scout. A good portion of that practice and consideration that was put into list building for Worlds was wasted by those players.

That's fine as long as we are all playing under the same conditions. All's fair then. But, is it? Yes, the community at large found out about the Deadeye change, and it's atomic bomb impact on the meta, yesterday. But, is that when everyone found out about it? Did the playtesters know about this change before the community at large? They did. And that's the big problem. That creates a very lopsided situation. Those that knew of the Deadeye nerf were building their lists and practicing much differently than those that didn't.

If I had been practicing with Deadeye scouts for Worlds (I wasn't) and learned yesterday that all my practice and prep was wasted, I'd be furious. I'd be even more furious to find out that a small group of privileged attendees at Worlds knew about the change well before I did.

FFG could have made the change official yesterday but with an announcement weeks ago. They absolutely should have given the larger community more time to adjust before Worlds. Look, playtesters are always going to know things before everyone else, that's life. If the playtesters knew 3 months ago, and the rest of the community knew 2 months ago, then it's not a problem, everyone has time to adjust. That's not what happened here. Playtesters knew with enough time to adequately prep for Worlds and Regionals, but the larger community did not have adequate time to react.

This is a fail by FFG. It has nothing to do with changes to the game, or if they should or should not have nerfed Deadeye. The fail lies in creating a smaller group of players that is more prepared for the premier tournament than everyone else.

The amount of playtesters who make top cuts are already above the ratio of playtesters to non playtesters. This is a clear cut competitive advantage to anyone who is a playtester. They likely have known for at least a month.

Your data doesn't have to suggest that. Aren't top players more likely to be considered as playtesters?

indeed, but then those top players are given an additional advantage of knowing what to prep for when 2.5 weeks before the big championship the meta is drastically shaken up.

there are major tournaments year round SOMEWHERE in the world, so its going to shaft one of them regardless. Plus, being so close, the tournament could simply announce "We are not using the faq released on X date" and since you had to register months in advance i could see them saying that.

8 waves in is when FFG releases something that is so broken it forced them to do a hard patch to fix it. Thats a pretty dang good track record. GW has a track record where EVERYTHING they release is horribly busted and often gets faqd right off the bat or very quick nontheless (except the last errata which for some reason took 1.5 years to happen).

How does 1 major screwup in an ever evolving meta constitute "too big for its britches"? I havnt played or seen a game yet, even video games, that didnt at some point screw up and add something that needed a hard fix because it was too good.

More than likely the deadeye fix was not planned during the summer faq. They probably expected the interaction between deadeye and the aggromech nerf to be enough to kill torps, which it merely annoyed them. Willing to bet the deadeye fix was thought of, but they didnt wanna do it yet.

Honestly im surprised they didnt revert the change on the aggromech since that also 100% kills off the turret....not that anybody uses it lol

I think it's great to mix things up right before a major tournament. Maybe the really good players will outshine those who just practiced vs. the same 3 lists?

I think it's great to mix things up right before a major tournament. Maybe the really good players will outshine those who just practiced vs. the same 3 lists?

So much this.

I make an effort to run seemingly random things. I do follow patterns in my list building but i have a habit of using unorthodox ships or tactics snuck in there.

If you are a legitimately good player, you will adapt to the weird things i bring and crush me. If you are only practicing on meta lists i will probably eat you alive.

Everybody that goes to a tournament in my area with a list intended to deal with aces, scouts, and rebel regen gets demolished by my lists because they simply cannot adapt to seeing something new. I dont claim to be an amazing hotshot player, i claim to be a player that will test your mettle hard because i am NOT a meta player or bad.

And I wish the criticism of the playtesting would stop. Unless you are a playtester, you can't really know what they were given to playtest. Deadlines are also a thing that exist.

Your point is valid in regard to criticism if the playtestERS. Criticism of the playtestING is largely warranted IMO. If the playtesters were not given to playtest a version of the JM5k that allowed them to pick up this combo, then isn't that also a flaw of the playtesting process set up by FFG?

I've playtested for FFG on other games and if it's representative of how it works on X-Wing then it's far from exhaustive. Farming it out to enthusiastic amateurs (especially those splitting their time between playtesting and practicing for competition) will always leave the potential for mistakes, especially as games get larger. That's FFG's business model, though - spread wide and thin over dozens of product lines rather than honing one product to a fine point the way WotC do with Magic.

I think they did have the Deadeye/Agromech combo in playtesting but the lists popular at the time playtesting was done were controlling it so it may have seemed ok. By the time it was actually released the metagame had moved on and the controlling factors that limited Jumps weren't as prevalent, instead there was a slew of things that the Jumpmasters hammered down and out of the meta.

I think it's great to mix things up right before a major tournament. Maybe the really good players will outshine those who just practiced vs. the same 3 lists?

So much this.

I make an effort to run seemingly random things. I do follow patterns in my list building but i have a habit of using unorthodox ships or tactics snuck in there.

If you are a legitimately good player, you will adapt to the weird things i bring and crush me. If you are only practicing on meta lists i will probably eat you alive.

Everybody that goes to a tournament in my area with a list intended to deal with aces, scouts, and rebel regen gets demolished by my lists because they simply cannot adapt to seeing something new. I dont claim to be an amazing hotshot player, i claim to be a player that will test your mettle hard because i am NOT a meta player or bad.

My co-host flew a 2 HWK list to his first tournament. He knew how to defeat Outriders with it and smashed every Outrider list he faced, which was over half his games. Funny that 2 HWKs and Corn Hole can win when the internet says it sucks.

I went to and won my first tournament with a list that featured 3 kihrakz fighters and a trandoshan slaver with k4/greedo/hlc, but i'm not exactly singing the praises of that list.

I eventually refined it to slaver with bossk/gunner/tactician and 5 binayre pirates and went 9-2 in a league with it before switching to Han/Miranda for the playoffs/store champs.

Now I'll admit I've never played against a list with 2-3 uboats in it. I think I've only played against a single one once or twice.

But I think in general I rather face a super offensive list over a super defensive list. So I really wish stuff like regen, palp, or other crazy damage mitgation techniques were nerfed instead.

I think they went a bit overboard with this nerf. They should have just made deadeye unique, then you'd still have a use for a single uboat, just not multiple. Also that prevents other small ships lists from popping up with multiple deadeye to be a new alpha strike menace.

That would hurt builds like Deadeye Gamma Squadron Veterans. Are you saying that Bombers are Op?

I think this is the best thing to happen for a long time. People are claiming that Scouts are dead, but this is untrue. They are still good, but it will require a player of a higher skill level to get the most out of them, no longer being move, OK I focus now and shoot. You want your full mods? You will need to fly well to get a low PS ship to keep out of range 1 and still in arc of your target. I think this has been a step in the right direction and I love the change.

I wonder how many people that dislike the change are 3x Scout players?

I think this is the best thing to happen for a long time. People are claiming that Scouts are dead, but this is untrue. They are still good, but it will require a player of a higher skill level to get the most out of them, no longer being move, OK I focus now and shoot. You want your full mods? You will need to fly well to get a low PS ship to keep out of range 1 and still in arc of your target. I think this has been a step in the right direction and I love the change.

I wonder how many people that dislike the change are 3x Scout players?

The thing is the lack of Deadeye kills more than just the easy target acquisition. It kills the easy to get attack modifications you can get from the Overclocked Astromech or Agromech. That is the real nail in the coffin to the Torp Scouts. They dismantled the combo chain.

I think this is the best thing to happen for a long time. People are claiming that Scouts are dead, but this is untrue. They are still good, but it will require a player of a higher skill level to get the most out of them, no longer being move, OK I focus now and shoot. You want your full mods? You will need to fly well to get a low PS ship to keep out of range 1 and still in arc of your target. I think this has been a step in the right direction and I love the change.

I wonder how many people that dislike the change are 3x Scout players?

The thing is the lack of Deadeye kills more than just the easy target acquisition. It kills the easy to get attack modifications you can get from the Overclocked Astromech or Agromech. That is the real nail in the coffin to the Torp Scouts. They dismantled the combo chain.

I have never played them, played plenty times against them though. I prefer small base ships. I see what your saying about the event chain, I guess I just saw the list of 27 HP's, can alpha your Aces in the right situations and even though it's only 2 attack die, can still shoot 360 degrees with primaries. Great dial etc etc etc. I just thought for 33 points they were well undercosted for what they could do, especially with all that efficiency.

Deadeye was critical in many ways to TorpScout success: it guaranteeted easy target aquisition (which is very important: if you can't shoot a torpedo in first round of engagement because as a ps3 you hadn't have the chance to lock someone you are way less efficient), attack modification AND defense modification. All with 2 points investment (1 for the droid, 1 for the elite).

You can still do some of that with PTL, K4 or other stuff, but you won't have all of that at the same time.

Generic jumpmasters might not be completly gone but they surely are as torpedo carriers

I own only one Jumpmaster. When I field it, its Dengar piloting this thing.

Same with the 666. Its Bossks ship. I like to fly with "historically correctness" (while I don't use the Hounds Tooth title even in casual games - my custom painted Pup is a shelf victim)

And while I state that restricting Deadeye to small ships only is a bit harsh - I must also say that 'historically' this card represents the force guiding the torpedo during Episode 4 and thus this card should have even been restricted to force users only - or even a force upgrade card - but there is no such thing as force users or force upgrade slots in X-Wing, which always made me a little sad. Maybe in X-Wing 2.0

I saw a guy piloting three attani torpedo scouts at Yavin to good effect. They'll still be around but they'll be a cool kids list now. They're still an amazing ship at an amazing price.