It is a FAQ. Are the not supposed to answer questions that they have gotten a lot. Even very silly ones. The FAQ isn't just for competitive players.

Agreed.. And no matter how good the wording is, there will be weird interactions that people are confused about. This is not bad design. This is how most game design works. The card text works in 98% of cases, and in those few cases you are confused there is a more detailed description to get you by...

Look at most board games. I've just picked up one called Pandemic: Reign of Cthulhu designed by one of the industries most well renowned designers, based on another well regarded game. Even in a board game with far less interactions than X-Wing they have included 3 pages at the back with a more detailed run down on about 75% of the cards in the game for when something wierd comes up, or to remind of rules details.

When one build single handedly removes an entire faction from the competitive tables, you have to admit that it is bad for the game. How many rebel list can take on palp aces and Toro scouts? One needed to be nerfed. Palp aces has hard counters, like bombs with Sabine and feedback. The conscout was just a little OP for the game. If FFG didn't think so, they would have left it the same.

K-wing with Biggs +x where is can be another K-Wing

Ghost + Phantom + Biggs

Wes, Biggs + X

Double Lothals with someone less reliability

Lothal + Dash

Should I go on? I have still a list of different wave 9 builds ;-)

Besides, FFG could acting here completely an behalves of sales. Everyone interested in playing double scouts with a party bus (triple scouts are dead for a while now) has already bought them. This patch gives M3A and TIE-Bomber new sales. FFG does not need to agree on balance when there are very business orientated reasons as well, especially with community as salty as this one about jump masters. And I am not saying the changed it for one or the other reason, just that your "they agreed on the balance issues" is the only option.

Today's nerf of the contracted scout torpedo build is bad for x-wing.

But it isn't. Now they just need to address TLTs, who will be making a comeback.

What are your thoughts? Am I wrong?

Yes.

You are wrong.

:lol: :lol: :lol:

RUTHLESS.

I think it is fine, but ya the timing is a little odd. It's got to be really rough on those players who had been practicing for worlds with a Uboat.

Apart from those in playtesting groups, who mysteriously stopped playing Jumpmaster lists a month ago to start practicing with something else.

It's interesting you see it as a nerf rather than a fix. Scouts were so broken on release it was crazy. There was literally nothing wrong with them from loadout to dial, only thing that let them down was PS and that was fixed by using deadeye. So I think that the new rule is good for the game. As to Biggs, I don't see this as a bad thing either. I nominate my weapon, choose a target. Check for valid targets with that weapon. What's wrong with that? You believe Biggs should override your own weapon selection?

They could have errated a lot more, give palp a range restriction, Manaroo too. I don't have an issue with Zuckuss, I don't like infinite token stacking though. People can still use the U Boat list, just now as intended maybe.

First off, what we saw today is something entirely new for the game of x-wing.

Not true. The fundamental shift of the Cloak Mechanic was pretty much the same thing; because cloaking phantoms removed anything but turrets, and High PS turrets removed phantoms, and we got "Go Fat Han or Lose".

Today's nerf of the contracted scout torpedo build is bad for x-wing. First off, what we saw today is something entirely new for the game of x-wing. This was not a FAQ, but a "patch". Very little rules clarifications were done, and the FAQ was used to specifically nerf the contracted scout, and biggs to a lesser degree. Why is this bad?

1. It shows that x-wing has gotten "too big for its britches". As pointed out in an excellent scum and villainy podcast recently, the complexity of the game is ratcheting up with every product release. Every new wave means thousands of interactions that need to be tested. The conclusion is the game designers are unable to accurately QA and playtest their product to avoid a critical error. The stat line on the jumpmaster being the first, with potentially more critical errors introduced with each new wave.

   I do not fault the game designers here, it seems they have 1.5 FTEs working on their highest grossing product. FFG really should inve$t in a better QA and playtesting process to protect this valuable revenue stream. Perhaps even mathematical modeling and analysis of the game dynamics and interactions to find all possible untested combinations is worth developing.

2. If you accept that this was a patch and not a rules clarification FAQ, this is a poor way to roll out patches. Weeks before the premier event in x-wing, with regionals following closely behind, many players have been practicing in earnest for weeks if not months. Many of you cheer the death of the contracted scout, but what if you had played 50 games with your scout list, in anticipation of attending worlds in a few weeks? How would you feel? What would your opinion be of x-wing and the game in general?

3. If FFG is going to roll out patches such as this, it should be on a regular schedule, perhaps yearly, and it should be announced in advance. Perhaps even the major decisions such as this should be made public before they are permanent? The triple scout or double scout + 1 list is not unbeatable, it would do little harm to let this exist a little longer in the meta.

4. The timing of this release is perhaps suspect. Going out on a limb a bit here, but why was this not announced in the summer FAQ? Clearly it has been in plans since then, as Alex Davy was on the record saying a "wave 9 hard counter to contract scouts was on the way". My guess is that FFG was not about to nerf the hottest selling SKU in their hottest game, without replacement product to be purchased. The implication being, many people bought 3 punishing one expansions, while FFG knew that the list would be nerfed once there was something else for us to buy. I think this is bad business and is shortsighted, if it is true.

What are your thoughts? Am I wrong?

Your wrong...

Is where you fail to understand how the timing clarification "patch" worked, and how badly the Scout was a fk up.

Today's nerf of the contracted scout torpedo build is bad for x-wing. First off, what we saw today is something entirely new for the game of x-wing. This was not a FAQ, but a "patch". Very little rules clarifications were done, and the FAQ was used to specifically nerf the contracted scout, and biggs to a lesser degree. Why is this bad?

No there have been nerfs in the past..... look at the TIE Phantom and de-cloaking. This is a serious nerf but its because the game has grown and like all systems that grow things change. I lk´now of other games where some cards simply become officially illegal to use in tournaments as they became over powered in certain combos.

Hey acidreign, I liked your post but disagreed with it. Here's my thoughts...

1) game designers are unable to accurately QA and playtest their product to avoid a critical error. The stat line on the jumpmaster being the first, with potentially more critical errors introduced with each new wave.

- Your logic is a bit awry here. Your conclusion (faq=bad) is invalid - from your premises it has to be that the FAQ is a good thing, as it addresses a design imbalance in the game. Yes, it's not good for the game to suffer such imbalances in the first place, but it's better that the problem is addressed than left to fester. (I.e. faq=good.)

2) Weeks before the premier event in x-wing, with regionals following closely behind, many players have been practicing in earnest for weeks if not months. How would you feel?

I don't feel sorry for triplejumpers in particular whatsoever. It's wrong to think that they are the only players who will have to radically overhaul their lists in the next few weeks. Anyone going to world to try and win it (and that's everyone, right?) will have to change their list to match a new, unknown and exciting meta. So two points that come from that: A) List building and opponent-guessing is one of the most important and exciting aspects of this game. I don't feel sorry for people that are given a new puzzle to try and crack - they're puzzlers, a lot of fun will be had over the next three weeks. B) As a spectator, I'll benefit from this decision hugely. Wide open metas are glorious and exciting things. Conclusion: we don't have to feel sorry for anyone. players as a whole profit.

3) If FFG is going to roll out patches such as this, it should be on a regular schedule

I think this idea has merit, but then I don't have to try and implement it. Happy to give FFG the benefit of the doubt and say it's not practical.

4) The timing of this release is perhaps suspect.

The timing would always be suspect, if you suspect this current timing. FFG had to give the meta a chance to even out, which meant no knee jerk nerf, which meant people had time to buy 3 jumps. From that point forward, the nerf was always going to hurt, and was always going to look suspicious to some. Honestly, X-wing is FFG's golden goose - their design decisions will be oriented to achieve game excellence and continuing market dominance: I highly doubt they'd cook the goose just for one good meal...

I can't understand why FFG doesn't done it before. 4TLT was the death of the game, not triple scouts. C'mon we have a quite nice meta, with 3-4 lists for any faction (Defenders and Palpaces, Ghost and BiggsArcs, 3Scout and Dengaroo), when before we had the-same-list between rebels and scum (4TLT) vs a palpaces..

Wtf is this hate versus 3scouts?

This still a great fix, but if you think about the past, we never had a nice competitive meta as now.

fathan-palpaces

dashrendar-brobots-palpaces

4TLT-4TLT-palpaces (the worst time in x-wing)

****, Even Imperial players now can almost change the "ace" part of the palpaces, with Defenders!

Finally FFG done a fix, even too late in my opinion. You're welcome FFG (:

2) Weeks before the premier event in x-wing, with regionals following closely behind, many players have been practicing in earnest for weeks if not months. How would you feel?

I don't feel sorry for triplejumpers in particular whatsoever. It's wrong to think that they are the only players who will have to radically overhaul their lists in the next few weeks. Anyone going to world to try and win it (and that's everyone, right?) will have to change their list to match a new, unknown and exciting meta. So two points that come from that: A) List building and opponent-guessing is one of the most important and exciting aspects of this game. I don't feel sorry for people that are given a new puzzle to try and crack - they're puzzlers, a lot of fun will be had over the next three weeks. B) As a spectator, I'll benefit from this decision hugely. Wide open metas are glorious and exciting things. Conclusion: we don't have to feel sorry for anyone. players as a whole profit.

As a PC gamer I agree totally. What kills a large multiplayer game is not balance patches, it's stagnation. Do you think League of Legends or Overwatch would carry on going if it wasn't for a patch every month or so that shifts the meta and makes people deal with new problems and challenges. Either playing a new character or learning to use the character you love in a new meta.

I think FFG had to do something before Worlds. They didn't want their premier tournament dominated by a single ship (whether that's triple Scouts or Dengaroo). I was getting a little worried they were ignoring the balance problems the JM5K introduced. This shows a willingness to change things that are clearly wrong with the game.

The timing isn't great but I'd rather things were fixed rather than left alone. The change to the tournament schedule this year combined with the timing of the JM5K release made the timing of this change very difficult. I agree with Banjobenito though - reacting to an uncertain meta with a list able to beat all-comers is the sign of a good player so I don't agree this change should have been left until after Worlds. 3 weeks is a decent amount of time, I think.

I think FFG had to do something before Worlds. They didn't want their premier tournament dominated by a single ship (whether that's triple Scouts or Dengaroo). I was getting a little worried they were ignoring the balance problems the JM5K introduced. This shows a willingness to change things that are clearly wrong with the game.

The timing isn't great but I'd rather things were fixed rather than left alone. The change to the tournament schedule this year combined with the timing of the JM5K release made the timing of this change very difficult. I agree with Banjobenito though - reacting to an uncertain meta with a list able to beat all-comers is the sign of a good player so I don't agree this change should have been left until after Worlds. 3 weeks is a decent amount of time, I think.

A top class player should have knowledge of most builds, I mean if I want to know how to beat something I play as it. So it shouldn't be hard to shift to another build.

I think people are forgetting the Phantom nerf of 2014. That was huge.

I mean, a two ship, 84 point list had the tools to wipe all but the most specialist of lists off the board. Triple Deadeye Jumpmasters, which is a very specific combo, was doing the same thing.

When are they nerfing Palp?

Today's nerf of the contracted scout torpedo build is bad for x-wing. First off, what we saw today is something entirely new for the game of x-wing. This was not a FAQ, but a "patch". Very little rules clarifications were done, and the FAQ was used to specifically nerf the contracted scout, and biggs to a lesser degree. Why is this bad?

1. It shows that x-wing has gotten "too big for its britches". As pointed out in an excellent scum and villainy podcast recently, the complexity of the game is ratcheting up with every product release. Every new wave means thousands of interactions that need to be tested. The conclusion is the game designers are unable to accurately QA and playtest their product to avoid a critical error. The stat line on the jumpmaster being the first, with potentially more critical errors introduced with each new wave.

   I do not fault the game designers here, it seems they have 1.5 FTEs working on their highest grossing product. FFG really should inve$t in a better QA and playtesting process to protect this valuable revenue stream. Perhaps even mathematical modeling and analysis of the game dynamics and interactions to find all possible untested combinations is worth developing.

2. If you accept that this was a patch and not a rules clarification FAQ, this is a poor way to roll out patches. Weeks before the premier event in x-wing, with regionals following closely behind, many players have been practicing in earnest for weeks if not months. Many of you cheer the death of the contracted scout, but what if you had played 50 games with your scout list, in anticipation of attending worlds in a few weeks? How would you feel? What would your opinion be of x-wing and the game in general?

3. If FFG is going to roll out patches such as this, it should be on a regular schedule, perhaps yearly, and it should be announced in advance. Perhaps even the major decisions such as this should be made public before they are permanent? The triple scout or double scout + 1 list is not unbeatable, it would do little harm to let this exist a little longer in the meta.

4. The timing of this release is perhaps suspect. Going out on a limb a bit here, but why was this not announced in the summer FAQ? Clearly it has been in plans since then, as Alex Davy was on the record saying a "wave 9 hard counter to contract scouts was on the way". My guess is that FFG was not about to nerf the hottest selling SKU in their hottest game, without replacement product to be purchased. The implication being, many people bought 3 punishing one expansions, while FFG knew that the list would be nerfed once there was something else for us to buy. I think this is bad business and is shortsighted, if it is true.

What are your thoughts? Am I wrong?

The TIE Phantom thinks this is not "new" to X-Wing

When are they nerfing Palp?

I doubt they will, the problem with Trip-Jumps was it effectively removed all counters to Palp from the meta, leaving Palp to fly around unchecked. Wave 9 and 8 had a lot of counters to Palp, but they just were not being used as they didn't help against Trip-Jump. Once 4xTLT, BMST, BBBBZ, Feedback Arrays, Assaj etc get back in the Meta Palp will probably naturally decline in use, meaning it won't need a nerf in the long term.

I think FFG had to do something before Worlds. They didn't want their premier tournament dominated by a single ship (whether that's triple Scouts or Dengaroo).(...)

Except that triple scouts were already declining.

Now we gonna see tons and tons of defenders, I presume.

I can see why FFG wanted to get rid of triple jumps, and while not personally agreeing with that, in the long run I think that FAQ that works like patches can help to keep the game healthy.

I am however really disappointed with the timing of such change because it really screws over worlds leaving a gap between who had prior knowledge of this upcoming change and who didnt' and started practicing other lists.

For the sake of competitive integrity, FFG should never do major changes just a couple of weeks before premier events without any announcement in advance

And then they will have to make sure they announce their announcement... We knew there was an FAQ coming, and FAQs are normally when things change.

I can see why FFG wanted to get rid of triple jumps, and while not personally agreeing with that, in the long run I think that FAQ that works like patches can help to keep the game healthy.

I am however really disappointed with the timing of such change because it really screws over worlds leaving a gap between who had prior knowledge of this upcoming change and who didnt' and started practicing other lists.

For the sake of competitive integrity, FFG should never do major changes just a couple of weeks before premier events without any announcement in advance

On the other hand, Regionals season is just around the corner, delaying the FAQ to "after Worlds" would mean it is dropped just before Regionals start. Given the choice between the two, I think it is better to "surprise" (3 weeks andvance is not really "surprise" IMHO) the 200 people attending Worlds than all the players worldwide attending the Regionals. Especially since the top contenders at Worlds know the meta inside-out anyway and don't need so much time to adjust.

And then they will have to make sure they announce their announcement... We knew there was an FAQ coming, and FAQs are normally when things change.

One thing is change (like the R4 change), another is completly killing one of the top list of the meta.

And I'm not even saying that changes are bad, in fact I beleive they help keeping the game different and healthy, I'm saying that doing such a big FAQ a couple of week before THE tournament really screws up the players who didn't have prior knowledge of FFG intentions while also making an eventual victory from a tester tainted by that

On the other hand, Regionals season is just around the corner, delaying the FAQ to "after Worlds" would mean it is dropped just before Regionals start. Given the choice between the two, I think it is better to "surprise" (3 weeks andvance is not really "surprise" IMHO) the 200 people attending Worlds than all the players worldwide attending the Regionals. Especially since the top contenders at Worlds know the meta inside-out anyway and don't need so much time to adjust.

I'd rather had them screwing the regionals rather than their own most premier event.

Some of the top contenders had prior knowledge of the nerf and practiced accordingly.

When are they nerfing Palp?

If you are going to ask for a nerf to the Palpatine crew card, which is essentially a 29 point ability, then I would kindly ask for a nerf to Manaroo because for 30 points, he can give any single ship on the board a focus and target lock. For 31 points, he can give every single mindlinked ship a focus token and then at the start of the combat phase, give another ship a focus and target lock and still have a focus him/herself.

Oh and the mindlinked ship, thanks to Manaroo, still has full use of its actions and dial, without stress.

So what is worse, a single change of a dice in a ship that struggles to join in to combat due to a horrendous dial, or a 360 turret ship that can provide three to four ships with a focus and one other ship another focus and a target lock, for simply not bumping in its movement phase, for 1 or 2 points more?

I like that this will have opened the meta to more choices. I don't like the precedent of broad errata patches updating text on handfuls of cards at once.

This is an awesome thread started by a well thought out opening dialogue; well played guys!

I understand that ultimately money drives business especially with the mouse having all of the Star Wars stuff in his toybox, but I feel that the designers are torn and would probably (albeit secretly) admit that the game and their love for the cannon it represents trumps everything else....even though I do love wearing tin-foil from time to time. Jumpmasters did need a real nerf (not one that also nicked Punishers), that would really make running exclusive squads non-(pretty much)-auto-wins. As discussed, the Phantom had it's day and its (almost) crown taken before it could claim the World's trophy, so why would we not expect the same for the Scum's tripple-headed giant? Remember, it needs to be 'Rebels or Bust' at the end of the World's bracket or else the Mouse might get angry.....none of us want that.