I actually kinda love how they did this before worlds

Sure people attending are pissed and rightfully so but I love the fact that right now the meta is kinda unknown going in

This may be the least meta heavy worlds yet and I love it

As pointed out in an excellent scum and villainy podcast recently, the complexity of the game is ratcheting up with every product release. Every new wave means thousands of interactions that need to be tested. The conclusion is the game designers are unable to accurately QA and playtest their product to avoid a critical error. The stat line on the jumpmaster being the first, with potentially more critical errors introduced with each new wave.

You wouldn't need a lot of QA to figure out the Scouts are completely broken. A ship that cheap, with 2 defense, 10 hitpoints, good dial and all sort of upgrades is indeed a critical error. Instead of FAQ'ing every card that works with the ship (that was ugly business), they should have just released reprinted Jumpmaster pilot cards (with fixed price and without that elite upgrade)...

But I agree the game is escalating in both complexity and the constant need of every release to add something new or to "break the meta". That's not good for the game at all - and will not end very well...

The scout isn't at all broken outside of torp scouts pushing so much out of the meta. It's cheap/good enough to actually be USABLE, but it's not going to break the meta without deadeye.

And still has a 2 dice primary. WoW a 25 points ueber-tie ^_°

2 points cheaper than an ORS, 5 points cheaper than a WSF. Same primary attacks. Better upgrades and dial.

Jesus, people still compare the cost of Jumpmaster to utterly useless, overcosted ships? I wonder if you compared the TIE/fo to the pre-buff Scyk, and the T-70 to the Starviper when they came out. Do you think those ships are OP, too?

How about just comparing it to a ship that was seen competitively before it came out? It's two points more than a Kwing. For those two points you get an extra hull and agility as well as a far superior dial, not to mention much better upgrade options.

how often do you see a k-wing run without a turret and/or bombs? I never have. Because a 2-dice primary is basically useless nowadays.

If it's so easy to counter how come Palp Aces are probably the most successful list archetype in tournaments this year?

Because all the stuff that kept palp aces in check before wave 8 got pushed out by u-boats.

Solution to killing Palp aces.

Block them.

Simple as that. No tokens means no modifying (except Palp). A blocked ace is a dead ace.

Yup, if you block them then they only have 3 raw green dice, and autothrusters, and Palp to defend, no way to survive. Simple as that.

Oh, but if you have them in arc and they're an x7 defender, then it's just 3 green dice, an evade token, 6HP and Palp. Yup, they're dead meat for sure!

...oh, wait...

Blocking is a super valid strategy, but it's not like once you block an Imperial Ace it explodes. You're probably gonna have to pull that trick off at least twice and then not have your dice crap out on you.

If you can set up a block on an ace, you can **** well set it up to be at range 1-2 in-arc for your other shots to prevent autothrusters. Now he's just got palp. There's also plenty of other things to hit aces besides your 3 die attacks. Ghost with autoblaster turret. HLC from dash. Party bus. Feedback array. Slicer tools.

Today's nerf of the contracted scout torpedo build is bad for x-wing. First off, what we saw today is something entirely new for the game of x-wing. This was not a FAQ, but a "patch". Very little rules clarifications were done, and the FAQ was used to specifically nerf the contracted scout, and biggs to a lesser degree. Why is this bad?

1. It shows that x-wing has gotten "too big for its britches". As pointed out in an excellent scum and villainy podcast recently, the complexity of the game is ratcheting up with every product release. Every new wave means thousands of interactions that need to be tested. The conclusion is the game designers are unable to accurately QA and playtest their product to avoid a critical error. The stat line on the jumpmaster being the first, with potentially more critical errors introduced with each new wave.

   I do not fault the game designers here, it seems they have 1.5 FTEs working on their highest grossing product. FFG really should inve$t in a better QA and playtesting process to protect this valuable revenue stream. Perhaps even mathematical modeling and analysis of the game dynamics and interactions to find all possible untested combinations is worth developing.

2. If you accept that this was a patch and not a rules clarification FAQ, this is a poor way to roll out patches. Weeks before the premier event in x-wing, with regionals following closely behind, many players have been practicing in earnest for weeks if not months. Many of you cheer the death of the contracted scout, but what if you had played 50 games with your scout list, in anticipation of attending worlds in a few weeks? How would you feel? What would your opinion be of x-wing and the game in general?

3. If FFG is going to roll out patches such as this, it should be on a regular schedule, perhaps yearly, and it should be announced in advance. Perhaps even the major decisions such as this should be made public before they are permanent? The triple scout or double scout + 1 list is not unbeatable, it would do little harm to let this exist a little longer in the meta.

4. The timing of this release is perhaps suspect. Going out on a limb a bit here, but why was this not announced in the summer FAQ? Clearly it has been in plans since then, as Alex Davy was on the record saying a "wave 9 hard counter to contract scouts was on the way". My guess is that FFG was not about to nerf the hottest selling SKU in their hottest game, without replacement product to be purchased. The implication being, many people bought 3 punishing one expansions, while FFG knew that the list would be nerfed once there was something else for us to buy. I think this is bad business and is shortsighted, if it is true.

What are your thoughts? Am I wrong?

Suspect for what? There was plenty of talk as you even where aware about changes to come so this should not be much of a surprise.

why I think this is bad for X-wing...

1 - Game loses it's ability to be played as the cards read. I use to promote this game as a "simple" game design to people. Basic game mechanics move, actions, shoot. Pull out 2-4 ships. Learn a couple pilot abilities. Learn a couple of upgrades. Easy! Now you run into the Casual gamer walking up to the Tournament gamer and being told "he's playing the game wrong".

2 - Deadeye Torp Jumps weren't winning! (that much). I liked the challenge of having them out there lurking. Future ships / upgrades / combos could have equally put the fear of god into Deadeye Torp Jumps and then the META turns again. Ah well...

3 - What is the next thing? Closing the Deadeye-Jumpmaster combo will only open up some other miserable list to ruin my day of flying thematic Han + Luke It's a viscous cycle!

4 - Was FFG really upset about Deadeye-Jumps? Or are they caving to the masses? If we keep complaining what else can we change? I want Young Anakin Podracer! (gross)

​Might be a little off topic but if I were to redesign the palpster, I would have him deal 1 damage to the ship he is on every time he alters a die roll. It would fit in with the Vader crew's theme of 'the darkside is ultimately self destructive' and it would put a hard limit on the number of times you could do it.

I think just setting a range limit to Palpatine from 1 to 2 could be nice, so it wouldn't affect the whole map like the Shuttle title.

3 - What is the next thing? Closing the Deadeye-Jumpmaster combo will only open up some other miserable list to ruin my day of flying thematic Han + Luke It's a viscous cycle!

Han + Luke really isn't even that bad of a list, if you take R2D2 Astromech, C-3P0 Crew and pretend that the Gunner Wookie is a very angry Chewbacca on a bad day. The major problem with it is that there's like, 0 incentive to play Luke over Poe, ever.

Luke's ability is a hair better, but not for the difference between a T-70 and a T-65. If Luke were in a T-70 and had autothrusters, T-Rolls, native boost and the extra green on the dial, the list could almost be a real thing.

Why are people still so sour about Palpatine? It's once a turn and requires a minimum 29pt investment. It's powerful, but has to be used carefully and at the right time, and does not remotely compare with triple JumpMasters or the old Phantom in terms of effect on the overall game.

The 'counter' is to kill him, or to focus fire on one of his non-Fel friends such that he can't save them from all of the damage.

If it's so easy to counter how come Palp Aces are probably the most successful list archetype in tournaments this year?

Because most of the lists that countered him were pushed out of the meta entirely by Trip-Jumps

Why are people still so sour about Palpatine? It's once a turn and requires a minimum 29pt investment. It's powerful, but has to be used carefully and at the right time, and does not remotely compare with triple JumpMasters or the old Phantom in terms of effect on the overall game.

The 'counter' is to kill him, or to focus fire on one of his non-Fel friends such that he can't save them from all of the damage.

If it's so easy to counter how come Palp Aces are probably the most successful list archetype in tournaments this year?

Palpatine is the card that started the crazy damage race in X-wing. Before him 3 dice attacks used to be good. It has had an effect of the same magnitude on the game, just in a bit more subtle ways.

You understand that Palp Aces existed at last year's Worlds, right? It is not a new archetype. And yet, it came down to Rebels vs Rebels in the finals. The U-boats were taking out the natural predators of Imperial Aces in general. Now, they can return. Along with all the other fun counters that have come out. (looks are resurrecting a Zuckuss complaint thread)

Why are people still so sour about Palpatine? It's once a turn and requires a minimum 29pt investment. It's powerful, but has to be used carefully and at the right time, and does not remotely compare with triple JumpMasters or the old Phantom in terms of effect on the overall game.

The 'counter' is to kill him, or to focus fire on one of his non-Fel friends such that he can't save them from all of the damage.

If it's so easy to counter how come Palp Aces are probably the most successful list archetype in tournaments this year?

Palpatine is the card that started the crazy damage race in X-wing. Before him 3 dice attacks used to be good. It has had an effect of the same magnitude on the game, just in a bit more subtle ways.

You understand that Palp Aces existed at last year's Worlds, right? It is not a new archetype. And yet, it came down to Rebels vs Rebels in the finals. The U-boats were taking out the natural predators of Imperial Aces in general. Now, they can return. Along with all the other fun counters that have come out. (looks are resurrecting a Zuckuss complaint thread)

Technicaly true, but wave 8 and Imperial Vets has added a lot to the list in the form of cheaper aces and stress-resiliant ships. Palp Aces with the Inquisitor and Vessery is an entirely different animal from Soontir and Vader. Similarily there is a three ship list possible (that threatens rebel regen ships handsomely).

Very happy about this! As xwing grows in complexity and size, it will eventually reach a point where they will either have to limit the competitive scene to recent ships or release patches on the most broken combos (just the same as MT:G works). Hoping the next on nerfs Palpatine.

Did playing the list at a high level take skill? sure. But against many rebel lists or god forbid, anyone taking generics of PS2 or lower it screwed their game. Don't complain to me that YOUR list was screwed in the meta when the list you are playing screwed someone else in turn. That is just the way of life, we all realize when we take a list that relies on one spam or trick that it can be made obsolete by a new release or in this case, a patch.

At the end of the day, the company should be focusing on making the maximum amount of their product useful in competitive play.

And in casual play, it's casual, who cares if someone reads a card straight out of the box and doesn't bother to read the latest errata? They don't care, they either police themselves from taking broken lists, play scenarios and often use rules wrong anyway. Meanwhile, a competitive xwing player needs to always be familiar with the latest FAQ anyhow.

3 - What is the next thing? Closing the Deadeye-Jumpmaster combo will only open up some other miserable list to ruin my day of flying thematic Han + Luke It's a viscous cycle!

Han + Luke really isn't even that bad of a list, if you take R2D2 Astromech, C-3P0 Crew and pretend that the Gunner Wookie is a very angry Chewbacca on a bad day. The major problem with it is that there's like, 0 incentive to play Luke over Poe, ever.

Luke's ability is a hair better, but not for the difference between a T-70 and a T-65. If Luke were in a T-70 and had autothrusters, T-Rolls, native boost and the extra green on the dial, the list could almost be a real thing.

I prefer Wedge over Luke. So it is either Wedge/Poe/Biggs and Luke is my last option. His weak hability sorta frustrated me, I expected more from Luke, lol

I prefer Wedge over Luke. So it is either Wedge/Poe/Biggs and Luke is my last option. His weak hability sorta frustrated me, I expected more from Luke, lol

It's not the ability. His ability is stronger than Poe's. It's his ride.

Poe is 3pts more than Luke but gets an upgrade from a T-65 to a T-70, which is in fact an upgrade worth way more than 3pts (Extra green maneuver, T-Rolls, extra shield, native boost which enables the best upgrade in the game, tech slot). At 3 pts, that value is insane, but don't confuse it with "Luke's weak ability".

...although our protagonist should have absolutely been put into the game at PS9. Why did they give the small base ship PS8 and the Fat Turret PS9? Why?!!

...anyway, I'd love to see pilot Luke in the game someday. Hopefully FFG will figure out how to do it before wave 17 hits.

I prefer Wedge over Luke. So it is either Wedge/Poe/Biggs and Luke is my last option. His weak hability sorta frustrated me, I expected more from Luke, lol

It's not the ability. His ability is stronger than Poe's. It's his ride.

Poe is 3pts more than Luke but gets an upgrade from a T-65 to a T-70, which is in fact an upgrade worth way more than 3pts (Extra green maneuver, T-Rolls, extra shield, native boost which enables the best upgrade in the game, tech slot). At 3 pts, that value is insane, but don't confuse it with "Luke's weak ability".

...although our protagonist should have absolutely been put into the game at PS9. Why did they give the small base ship PS8 and the Fat Turret PS9? Why?!!

...anyway, I'd love to see pilot Luke in the game someday. Hopefully FFG will figure out how to do it before wave 17 hits.

Oh, but I was talking about the pilot hability only, not the ship they fly with. And about how to make Luke better, there are 3 ways... if they release a new Title for T-65 X-Wings, or if they create a progressive effect that only Jedi pilots can use or any other new random card or pilot that combo nicely with Luke.

Edit: Forgot to say that Wedge is better pilot than Luke. On the movies, Wedge saved Luke's life. One time against Dark Curse on episode IV, and I think a second time when the Empire strikes the rebel base in Hoth, but can't remember well. That is why Wedge is PS9 and Luke is PS8.

I prefer Wedge over Luke. So it is either Wedge/Poe/Biggs and Luke is my last option. His weak hability sorta frustrated me, I expected more from Luke, lol

It's not the ability. His ability is stronger than Poe's. It's his ride.

Poe is 3pts more than Luke but gets an upgrade from a T-65 to a T-70, which is in fact an upgrade worth way more than 3pts (Extra green maneuver, T-Rolls, extra shield, native boost which enables the best upgrade in the game, tech slot). At 3 pts, that value is insane, but don't confuse it with "Luke's weak ability".

...although our protagonist should have absolutely been put into the game at PS9. Why did they give the small base ship PS8 and the Fat Turret PS9? Why?!!

...anyway, I'd love to see pilot Luke in the game someday. Hopefully FFG will figure out how to do it before wave 17 hits.

Luke is stronger on defense (since it always works), but doesn't do anything for offense like poe does.

Luke is stronger on defense (since it always works), but doesn't do anything for offense like poe does.

...how do you figure?

If Luke takes a focus token, he has the ability to modify focus symbols on attack and defense. If Poe takes a focus token, he has the ability to modify focus symbols on attack and defense.

If either ship bumps, or has their token stripped, or can't get the token because they're stressed, etc., Luke still works on the defense, while Poe doesn't work at all.

If Poe and Luke both have a focus token, their offensive capability is like, exactly the same.

why I think this is bad for X-wing...

1 - Game loses it's ability to be played as the cards read. I use to promote this game as a "simple" game design to people. Basic game mechanics move, actions, shoot. Pull out 2-4 ships. Learn a couple pilot abilities. Learn a couple of upgrades. Easy! Now you run into the Casual gamer walking up to the Tournament gamer and being told "he's playing the game wrong".

2 - Deadeye Torp Jumps weren't winning! (that much). I liked the challenge of having them out there lurking. Future ships / upgrades / combos could have equally put the fear of god into Deadeye Torp Jumps and then the META turns again. Ah well...

3 - What is the next thing? Closing the Deadeye-Jumpmaster combo will only open up some other miserable list to ruin my day of flying thematic Han + Luke It's a viscous cycle!

4 - Was FFG really upset about Deadeye-Jumps? Or are they caving to the masses? If we keep complaining what else can we change? I want Young Anakin Podracer! (gross)

1. There are only a handful of cards that read differently. And the changes to those cards don't alter what the card does or how it works in the game. Casual X-Wing gamers young and old are intelligent enough to remember slight changes to cards they play whether they're sticking with casual play or thinking of moving on to the tournament scene.

Decloak - happens at the start of the activation phase instead of before the TIE Phantom moves.

Tactician - Limited

Heavy Scyk Title - Also adds +1 hull.

Deadeye - Small ships only.

2. Torpscouts may not have won every tournament, but their power pushed out lists that helped balance the meta and made the meta far too static.

3. With any luck there won't be a "next thing". And if there is, it won't be for some time and after plenty of tournaments have offered some more data to see where the game's tournament scene is.

4. If I had to guess, FFG looked at tournament data and noticed the trend in what types of lists were being brought to tournaments. The overabundance of Palp Aces and Torpscouts probably showed the most. And after testing (and undoubtedly community input because they have stated they do look at the forums), they came to the conclusion that making Deadeye a small ship only card would be the best solution for bringing in other lists. With Torpscouts gone, the lists that do well against Palp Aces can make a return.

The community "complaining" is not what led FFG to make the change. If they made changes based on how much the community complained about things on the forums or if they "catered to the masses, we'd have the (ugly) Imperial Gunboat, about a thousand T-65 X-Wing "fixes", and Palpatine would be for epic only. Among other things.

Luke is stronger on defense (since it always works), but doesn't do anything for offense like poe does.

It does from a certain point of view.

Luke and Poe both take focus. To maintain his single modifier across all his rolls he must keep that token. Luke can spend that focus to fully modify his attack dice and his ability still works.

Bleh

The community "complaining" is not what led FFG to make the change. If they made changes based on how much the community complained about things on the forums or if they "catered to the masses, we'd have the (ugly) Imperial Gunboat, about a thousand T-65 X-Wing "fixes", and Palpatine would be for epic only. Among other things.

It's not ugly.. it's differently beautiful... Stop ship shaming.

All hail the GUNBOAT!

GUNBOAT

GUNBOAT

GUNBOAT

PEW PEW PEW

Hail to the Gunboat!

Luke is stronger on defense (since it always works), but doesn't do anything for offense like poe does.

It does from a certain point of view.

Luke and Poe both take focus. To maintain his single modifier across all his rolls he must keep that token. Luke can spend that focus to fully modify his attack dice and his ability still works.

It all comes down to the situation. Luke can spend his focus on attack, then convert 1 on each defense roll, but only 1. Poe can use his ability on attack, and have the focus token to convert multiple eyeballs on defense if he really needs to. Or save the focus for r5p9.

Talking about new ships to add...

Rebels:
T-Wing (can be Scum and Villainy too)
YT-2000 (can be Scum and Villainy too)

Prototype B-Wing from Star Wars Rebels

Empire:

Assault Gunboat

Missile Boat

Tie Avenger

Scum and Villainy:
R-41 Starchaser

About Luke... guys... he only modifyes a single focus result to an evade, and that is it. Luke is bad compared to other X-Wing pilots, even Biggs is better. Luke won't kill much and his ability alone won't keep him safe. Luke + R2D2 is NOT unbeatable, far from that. Poe kick his ass, Wedge kick his ass, Biggs kick his ass. Don't blame me, I didn't made him weak, lol.