Liberties do the job of ISDs vs smaller ships for a lesser cost, at the trade off of poor results against other large ships with the potential to roll multiple accuracies.

Not having ECM is all but irrelevant vs 4 dice pools when you have double brace.

Against 8 dice pools however...

Liberties do the job of ISDs vs smaller ships for a lesser cost, at the trade off of poor results against other large ships with the potential to roll multiple accuracies.

Not having ECM is all but irrelevant vs 4 dice pools when you have double brace.

Against 8 dice pools however...

Totally agree with all this, with the caveat that not all 4 dice pools are created equally: the 3 red / 1 blue of an Assault Frigate are not the same as the 4 black of a Gladiator, especially if that Glad comes with a few tricks, like APTs and ordnance experts.

Might seem like quibbling, but I think it highlights a bit of a weakness of the Liberty - it doesn't like sustained, close quarter fighting, even against smaller ships like Glads or MC30s. That's where advanced projectors would come in handy, improving its ability to spread damage across its shields.

Engine Techs - they're the only large ship that can go effective speed four. Coupled with Madine this means they can get behind most fleets with ease. People will say go joust with them - pointless. They'll lose against most wedges head-on.

To mitigate its lack of defensive upgrades Lando is useful/ pretty much your only option (apart from not getting shot... ).

To answer the OP, the list you are looking for is roughly as follows:

Dodonna, Madine or Cracken

Obscene Mon Karren build with gunny teams.

Lots of Corvettes and Flotillas

Small escort squadron force.

Flavour to suit.

Would you recommend Cracken even though he won't work for the Liberty because of its large base? Is he there just for the smaller ships?

I havent run the liberty so cant say really. This is just what I have seen.

Personally, I think a dual liberty list must be doable with neb/flotilla support.

To answer the OP, the list you are looking for is roughly as follows:

Dodonna, Madine or Cracken

Obscene Mon Karren build with gunny teams.

Lots of Corvettes and Flotillas

Small escort squadron force.

Flavour to suit.

Would you recommend Cracken even though he won't work for the Liberty because of its large base? Is he there just for the smaller ships?

I havent run the liberty so cant say really. This is just what I have seen.

Personally, I think a dual liberty list must be doable with neb/flotilla support.

I've run a dual star cruiser list with 3 flotillas and Madine and really liked the principle. You can just split the Libertys and hook them behind your opponent's forces. In practice, my build suffered too much from a reliance on medium range and from unmodifiable dice. I'll be rejigging it to make it stronger at long range and with some dice modifiers, at the cost of activations from lost flotillas.

Aye, there is a list there, just no one has found the right balance yet. Good luck with it.

Thanks. It'll be a while before I know how it fares as there are no tournaments for a while. It'll probably be wave 5 and redundant by then!

Had someone use Mon Karren, Madine, and 4 TRC Corvettes against me at a tournament. He won the tournament pretty handily as I recall. I think he had a couple A-Wing stands as fighter support. Everything ran max speed and spammed nav dials.

This list came in first at the Phoenix Games tournament this past Sunday.

Btw - we thought you and the Buffalo crew were coming up to KW. We had lots of all ship lists.

Commander: General Dodonna

MC80 Star Cruiser (96 points)

- Mon Karren ( 8 points)
- Gunnery Team ( 7 points)
- XX-9 Turbolasers ( 5 points)
- Spinal Armament ( 9 points)
- Leading Shots ( 4 points)
= 129 total ship cost

Nebulon-B Escort Frigate (57 points)
- Yavaris ( 5 points)
- Flight Commander ( 3 points)
- Fighter Coordination Team ( 3 points)
= 68 total ship cost

GR-75 Medium Transports (18 points)
- Bright Hope ( 2 points)
- Toryn Farr ( 7 points)
- Bomber Command Center ( 8 points)
= 35 total ship cost

[ flagship ] GR-75 Medium Transports (18 points)
- General Dodonna ( 20 points)
- Comms Net ( 2 points)
= 40 total ship cost

5 B-Wing Squadrons ( 70 points)
1 "Dutch" Vander ( 16 points)
1 Wedge Antilles ( 19 points)
1 Jan Ors ( 19 points)

Note: I'm going off memory, so some upgrades may be off.

I've had league success with:

2xLiberty/Leading Shots/Gunnery Team

Bright Hope/transport/Toryn/EHB/BCC/Madine

Season with your preferred bomber screen. I think I ran 4X/3B/Jan

No tourney results because Im the TO and we always have even #s

You go Chris!! Chris is one of my main local playing buds and both of us are prepping for upcoming events (worlds & regionals) and we're testing various builds. Neither of us have played Liberties that much and he's probably looking for something to test with/against. I'm deep down in the muck of testing bizaroo lists and need to settle on something soon!!!

Roquax, I wish we could have come. We'll both be at Canadian Regionals. Need.more.time.com!!!! (and a fleet!)

My cousin ran a Yavaris, 2 transport, Liberty list against me a week ago. His squadrons were... 3 Xs, Jan, Dutch, Nym, and 2 Bs, I think. Obviously his Yavaris did more to me than his Liberty did, but he had more activations than me, and put his Liberty off to the side somewhat facing my ISD, but on the other side of Mr Demo. His strategy seems to be placing sightly farther away, and running it at speed 3. He'll collide with the ISD until one of us is dead, if it's me, he gets to jet off at speed 3, making a commendable getaway.

He ran Dodanna.

I don't recall making a comment on someone's character.... Good sir. I was simply stating how this must be how it feels when Dras gets scolded via PM while stating it as it is.

No, because Dras doesn't deserve it.

Boom shots fired!

Had a lot of success with...

REBELS

Faction: Rebel Alliance
Points: 399/400

Commander: General Madine

Assault Objective: Most Wanted
Defense Objective: Contested Outpost
Navigation Objective: Intel Sweep

[ flagship ] MC80 Battle Cruiser (103 points)
- General Madine ( 30 points)
- Lando Calrissian ( 4 points)
- Gunnery Team ( 7 points)
- Spinal Armament ( 9 points)
- X17 Turbolasers ( 6 points)
- Leading Shots ( 4 points)
= 163 total ship cost

CR90 Corvette A (44 points)
- Turbolaser Reroute Circuits ( 7 points)
= 51 total ship cost

CR90 Corvette A (44 points)
- Turbolaser Reroute Circuits ( 7 points)
= 51 total ship cost

CR90 Corvette A (44 points)
- Turbolaser Reroute Circuits ( 7 points)
= 51 total ship cost

GR-75 Medium Transports (18 points)
- Bright Hope ( 2 points)
- Expanded Hangar Bay ( 5 points)
= 25 total ship cost

1 Jan Ors ( 19 points)
3 X-Wing Squadrons ( 39 points)

Running at 100% right now at tourneys. 5 activations, decent fighter screen, good objectives, and a lot of reliable firepower. It operates a bit backward than most people are prepared for because I play aggressively. Corvettes start at speed 4, Liberty at speed 3, GR75 at speed 2. Corvettes com in screaming, take and do a lot damage and Liberty runs clean up. Lando is on Liberty to save it's bacon at least once.

So far it's worked like a charm.

Thraug - you all should have definitely tried to make it last Sunday. We are in full World's testing mode (since we in the GTA are sending 4 people). The tournament had some very interesting concepts that either needed to be proven to work or to be not optimal enough. So far, we've got some core archetypes set and the testing continues. You should try to make it up to Toronto next weekend, we have a short tourney at FacetoFace.

Thraug - you all should have definitely tried to make it last Sunday. We are in full World's testing mode (since we in the GTA are sending 4 people). The tournament had some very interesting concepts that either needed to be proven to work or to be not optimal enough. So far, we've got some core archetypes set and the testing continues. You should try to make it up to Toronto next weekend, we have a short tourney at FacetoFace.

Oooh, do tell of these concepts. I've pretty much covered every screw-ball Empire build I could come up with, but have barely touched the surface of weird Rebel builds (I swear 5 loaded Nebulon-B Escort Frigate's has merit!). I'm still struggling with using one of the oddball lists, but still not knowing how the Worlds tourney is structured (top X make final cut? Single Elim??) I can't make a decision.

Next week huh? Hmm, maybe? I'll talk to Chris, and of course the Empress.

I've had success with a Mon Karren + Salvation (with spinal armament) + Yavaris + Transport with BCC and 2 B-Wings, 2 X-Wings and Jan Ors.

This lists presents 3 threats, although fighter presence is lighter and a fleet running 134 points of squadrons can shut down Yavaris pretty hard. In my experience though, the anti-squadron fire support from the Escort frigate really helped in that regard. Heroes with scatter tokens are annoying for sure.

I don't thnk I have seen a Liberty class "top 2", but Ive seen a few do well (top 4) with fully loaded Madine battle cruiser and some TRC corvettes and transports backing them up.

The Liberty is a good Rebel Demolisher.

Take a BC kitted out, then plenty of additional activations and bid.

Go first/last last/first and use those Gunnery Teams to possible kill/cripple 2 units.

Thanks guys some great discussion!

I'm currently in first in my league with one week to go. I've been having success with the following:

390/400

Liberty: MC80 Star Cruiser (96 + 28)

+ Raymus Antilles (7)

+ SW-7 Ion Batteries (5)

+ Engine Techs (8)

+ Mon Karren (8)

Nebulon-B Frigate: Nebulon-B Support Refit (51 + 16)

+ Spinal Armament (9)

+ Salvation (7)

MC30c Frigate: MC30c Torpedo Frigate (63 + 21)

+ Lando Calrissian (4)

+ Ordnance Experts (4)

+ Assault Proton Torpedoes (5)

+ Admonition (8)

Rebel Transports: GR-75 Medium Transports (18 + 32)

+ General Madine (30)

+ Bright Hope (2)

Squadrons: A-wing Squadron (11)

Squadrons: A-wing Squadron (11)

Squadrons: A-wing Squadron (11)

Squadrons: YT-2400 (16)

Squadrons: YT-2400 (16)

Raymus and Madine combo well together. Trust me on this. I'll leave it up to you to figure out how to actually fly this list.

I'm currently in first in my league with one week to go. I've been having success with the following:

390/400

Liberty: MC80 Star Cruiser (96 + 28)

+ Raymus Antilles (7)

+ SW-7 Ion Batteries (5)

+ Engine Techs (8)

+ Mon Karren (8)

Nebulon-B Frigate: Nebulon-B Support Refit (51 + 16)

+ Spinal Armament (9)

+ Salvation (7)

MC30c Frigate: MC30c Torpedo Frigate (63 + 21)

+ Lando Calrissian (4)

+ Ordnance Experts (4)

+ Assault Proton Torpedoes (5)

+ Admonition (8)

Rebel Transports: GR-75 Medium Transports (18 + 32)

+ General Madine (30)

+ Bright Hope (2)

Squadrons: A-wing Squadron (11)

Squadrons: A-wing Squadron (11)

Squadrons: A-wing Squadron (11)

Squadrons: YT-2400 (16)

Squadrons: YT-2400 (16)

Raymus and Madine combo well together. Trust me on this. I'll leave it up to you to figure out how to actually fly this list.

Nice, I've used a similar build but with Yavaris and Salvation, only to realize Madine doesn't benefit Neb-Bs as much as the Liberty (he is probably awesome with MC30s though). I would add Comms net on your transport for more token flexibility!

I'm currently in first in my league with one week to go. I've been having success with the following:

390/400

Liberty: MC80 Star Cruiser (96 + 28)

+ Raymus Antilles (7)

+ SW-7 Ion Batteries (5)

+ Engine Techs (8)

+ Mon Karren (8)

Nebulon-B Frigate: Nebulon-B Support Refit (51 + 16)

+ Spinal Armament (9)

+ Salvation (7)

MC30c Frigate: MC30c Torpedo Frigate (63 + 21)

+ Lando Calrissian (4)

+ Ordnance Experts (4)

+ Assault Proton Torpedoes (5)

+ Admonition (8)

Rebel Transports: GR-75 Medium Transports (18 + 32)

+ General Madine (30)

+ Bright Hope (2)

Squadrons: A-wing Squadron (11)

Squadrons: A-wing Squadron (11)

Squadrons: A-wing Squadron (11)

Squadrons: YT-2400 (16)

Squadrons: YT-2400 (16)

Raymus and Madine combo well together. Trust me on this. I'll leave it up to you to figure out how to actually fly this list.

Nice, I've used a similar build but with Yavaris and Salvation, only to realize Madine doesn't benefit Neb-Bs as much as the Liberty (he is probably awesome with MC30s though). I would add Comms net on your transport for more token flexibility!

My original list had it but I never ended up using it. I keep a squad token on the transport and use it to push around my CAP.

I'm currently in first in my league with one week to go. I've been having success with the following:

390/400

Liberty: MC80 Star Cruiser (96 + 28)

+ Raymus Antilles (7)

+ SW-7 Ion Batteries (5)

+ Engine Techs (8)

+ Mon Karren (8)

Nebulon-B Frigate: Nebulon-B Support Refit (51 + 16)

+ Spinal Armament (9)

+ Salvation (7)

MC30c Frigate: MC30c Torpedo Frigate (63 + 21)

+ Lando Calrissian (4)

+ Ordnance Experts (4)

+ Assault Proton Torpedoes (5)

+ Admonition (8)

Rebel Transports: GR-75 Medium Transports (18 + 32)

+ General Madine (30)

+ Bright Hope (2)

Squadrons: A-wing Squadron (11)

Squadrons: A-wing Squadron (11)

Squadrons: A-wing Squadron (11)

Squadrons: YT-2400 (16)

Squadrons: YT-2400 (16)

Raymus and Madine combo well together. Trust me on this. I'll leave it up to you to figure out how to actually fly this list.

I like this. Especially that Liberty loadout. Think I might give this a whirl at open play this afternoon...

I'm currently in first in my league with one week to go. I've been having success with the following:

390/400

Liberty: MC80 Star Cruiser (96 + 28)

+ Raymus Antilles (7)

+ SW-7 Ion Batteries (5)

+ Engine Techs (8)

+ Mon Karren (8)

Nebulon-B Frigate: Nebulon-B Support Refit (51 + 16)

+ Spinal Armament (9)

+ Salvation (7)

MC30c Frigate: MC30c Torpedo Frigate (63 + 21)

+ Lando Calrissian (4)

+ Ordnance Experts (4)

+ Assault Proton Torpedoes (5)

+ Admonition (8)

Rebel Transports: GR-75 Medium Transports (18 + 32)

+ General Madine (30)

+ Bright Hope (2)

Squadrons: A-wing Squadron (11)

Squadrons: A-wing Squadron (11)

Squadrons: A-wing Squadron (11)

Squadrons: YT-2400 (16)

Squadrons: YT-2400 (16)

Raymus and Madine combo well together. Trust me on this. I'll leave it up to you to figure out how to actually fly this list.

I like this. Especially that Liberty loadout. Think I might give this a whirl at open play this afternoon...

Let me know how it works for you!

That's a really good load-out. I like the combination of the Liberty with the MC30. Maybe, just maybe, the maneuverability with Madine is enough to compensate for the likelihood of getting outplaced at the start of the game. I suspect the Liberty+MC30 are just enough threats to keep Salvation around for most, if not all, of a lot of games, and the more turns it snipes, the more dangerous it becomes. I also see a pretty good movement back and forth with the activations in that list, where you've got two easy "delaying" activations, plus the opportunity to activate the MK or MC30 first depending upon need.

I've also seen two other Liberty builds I've really liked earlier in the thread.

My overall thoughts on the Liberty are that it seems like a solid ship, and whether it comes in first or second or elsewhere is as much up to the skill of the players and luck of the tournament as it is up to the ship. It seems to mix well with a number of commanders with quite a bit of variance in what upgrades it gets.

I'm generally rotating my favorite builds around, so perhaps back to Madine could be the next interesting move.