Anyone use a liberty in a tourney and come in 1st or 2nd? If so what was your list and some details if you could.

Hi I'm Chris and I'm a netlister.

Hi Chris

Hi I'm Chris and I'm a netlister.

Hi Chris

So what's the big deal with that?

Dude clearly wants to use the Liberty but wants to try and be competitive; so he's asking the community for examples which have done well and why they've done well.

I don't really see the issue with that, and certainly can't see why it called for a condescending response.

Monday karren is always a good place to start

I have. I'm on my phone and can't put up the full list easily, but it's a Liberty with four transports, Dodonna, and a mess of X's, Y's, and HWKs. Liberty has Xi-7, xx-9, liberty title. Transports variously equipped for squadron support.

It's a list that takes a lot of practice to fly well, and can crumple easily if you start losing ships. Any ships.

Take a look at this:

http://xwingtactics.blogspot.com/2016/08/fun-with-wave-3-after-action-report.html?m=1

Play around with it and see what works well for you.

Hi I'm Chris and I'm a netlister.

Hi Chris

So what's the big deal with that?

Dude clearly wants to use the Liberty but wants to try and be competitive; so he's asking the community for examples which have done well and why they've done well.

I don't really see the issue with that, and certainly can't see why it called for a condescending response.

Someone got defensive really fast. Man now I know how Dras feels.

Hi I'm Chris and I'm a netlister.

Hi Chris

So what's the big deal with that?

Dude clearly wants to use the Liberty but wants to try and be competitive; so he's asking the community for examples which have done well and why they've done well.

I don't really see the issue with that, and certainly can't see why it called for a condescending response.

It is controversial to some.

Especially, with the way at which it is asked, makes a big difference too... With the way its been taken, it seems like he wasn't asking the community at large for examples which have merely "done well"... He's asking for something that's placed 1st or 2nd. Nothing else. Everything else is irrelevant and wasting my time. Doesn't matter how good it is, I don't want to talk to you if you havn't won .

That's my two cents.

I've never come 1st or 2nd in anything Armada, so, y'know....

Hi I'm Chris and I'm a netlister.

Hi Chris

So what's the big deal with that?

Dude clearly wants to use the Liberty but wants to try and be competitive; so he's asking the community for examples which have done well and why they've done well.

I don't really see the issue with that, and certainly can't see why it called for a condescending response.

It is controversial to some.

Especially, with the way at which it is asked, makes a big difference too... With the way its been taken, it seems like he wasn't asking the community at large for examples which have merely "done well"... He's asking for something that's placed 1st or 2nd. Nothing else. Everything else is irrelevant and wasting my time. Doesn't matter how good it is, I don't want to talk to you if you havn't won .

That's my two cents.

I've never come 1st or 2nd in anything Armada, so, y'know....

Your first in our hearts Dras....lol

Hi I'm Chris and I'm a netlister.

Hi Chris

Dont worry Chris. TIRIONs family is historically famous for netlisting. He doesnt and is the black sheep. This has caused deep emotional issues. Clearly.

Hi I'm Chris and I'm a netlister.

Hi Chris

So what's the big deal with that?

Dude clearly wants to use the Liberty but wants to try and be competitive; so he's asking the community for examples which have done well and why they've done well.

I don't really see the issue with that, and certainly can't see why it called for a condescending response.

Someone got defensive really fast. Man now I know how Dras feels.

Sorry, if it read aggressively / defensively that wasn't my intended tone of voice, but equally I had a similar reaction when I read your comment. Guy coming in asking for advice, you seem to immediately throw out a generally defensive and condescending response.

Hi I'm Chris and I'm a netlister.

Hi Chris

So what's the big deal with that?

Dude clearly wants to use the Liberty but wants to try and be competitive; so he's asking the community for examples which have done well and why they've done well.

I don't really see the issue with that, and certainly can't see why it called for a condescending response.

It is controversial to some.

Especially, with the way at which it is asked, makes a big difference too... With the way its been taken, it seems like he wasn't asking the community at large for examples which have merely "done well"... He's asking for something that's placed 1st or 2nd. Nothing else. Everything else is irrelevant and wasting my time. Doesn't matter how good it is, I don't want to talk to you if you havn't won .

That's my two cents.

I've never come 1st or 2nd in anything Armada, so, y'know....

I think I just fail to understand the issue, and that's on me (not denigrating anyone who does find netlisting uncool, I just personally don't understand the issue).

I think if his goal is to play competitively then I can see the logic behind wanting to hear from lists that have won. While I personally like hearing about all higher placing lists (Top 8) when trying to build my own, like I've said I just don't see why it's so no-bueno for someone to want to try and win, look for information about the winning lists, and use that for themselves.

For the person in question, isn't the fact that he doesn't want to hear about non-winning lists kind of the point? Like I'm not saying I think that's the best strategy for building a competitive list, but I don't see anything wrong with it. He wants to make a winning list, he realises he needs to acquire more information to design said list, to lower the signal to noise ratio he's decided the best way is to only ask about winning lists because then at least he knows they've won.

But, that is the assumption that the Liberty is the one doing the Winning, and misses out on the people who can rightly give advice....

... The Advice that basically boils down to :

"Man, My Liberty was built like this , and it Wrecked SO MUCH FACE. It Lived every game, killed tons above its points.... I just wish I had 'X' to go along WITH it and I would have had a much better matchup on the way in!"

Which would be "noise" rather than "signal"... But most likely contains vitally pertinent information...

Whereas a list that is all about Yavaris and B-Wings, which just happens to have a LIberty tacked on at the end, is treated as Signal, when really, its mostly B-Wing Noise, because the Liberty was thoroughly inconsequential to the situation.

Its a little bit neither/nor.

I just mostly don't see the point in turning away advice

But, that is the assumption that the Liberty is the one doing the Winning, and misses out on the people who can rightly give advice....

... The Advice that basically boils down to :

"Man, My Liberty was built like this , and it Wrecked SO MUCH FACE. It Lived every game, killed tons above its points.... I just wish I had 'X' to go along WITH it and I would have had a much better matchup on the way in!"

Which would be "noise" rather than "signal"... But most likely contains vitally pertinent information...

Whereas a list that is all about Yavaris and B-Wings, which just happens to have a LIberty tacked on at the end, is treated as Signal, when really, its mostly B-Wing Noise, because the Liberty was thoroughly inconsequential to the situation.

Its a little bit neither/nor.

I just mostly don't see the point in turning away advice

Redirect Defense Token Exhausted

But, that is the assumption that the Liberty is the one doing the Winning, and misses out on the people who can rightly give advice....

... The Advice that basically boils down to :

"Man, My Liberty was built like this , and it Wrecked SO MUCH FACE. It Lived every game, killed tons above its points.... I just wish I had 'X' to go along WITH it and I would have had a much better matchup on the way in!"

Which would be "noise" rather than "signal"... But most likely contains vitally pertinent information...

Whereas a list that is all about Yavaris and B-Wings, which just happens to have a LIberty tacked on at the end, is treated as Signal, when really, its mostly B-Wing Noise, because the Liberty was thoroughly inconsequential to the situation.

Its a little bit neither/nor.

I just mostly don't see the point in turning away advice

Right and you'll notice that, as I've stated, I personally think that an expanded advice pool is better, but I feel we're moving the goal posts.

My initial comment was that I disagreed with Tirion's response. I thought it was unnecessarily rude and just didn't need to be said.

If you wanted to say Dras, 'Hey Chris, I think you should just ask for about Liberty's generally, rather than just those that have won' I don't see any issue with that. I think that's a valid point to raise that would contribute to a player's development.

But just making a snarky response about how someone is a 'netlister' doesn't really add anything, moreover while I think your advice (to seek information from sources other than just lists that have won) is good, I again just fail to see what is inherently wrong about Chris asking for just winning lists. As players we can say that it's not the best choice for getting competitive information, but that's an opinion. Again, I would like to stress Dras that I agree with you, I personally think that a lot of good information comes from non-winning lists, but if Chris thinks otherwise what's wrong with that? That's his choice, doesn't mean people have to get all snarky on him.

I personally think that a lot of good information comes from non-winning lists, but if Chris thinks otherwise what's wrong with that? That's his choice, doesn't mean people have to get all snarky on him.

Perceived Snark was replied with Perceived Snark.

Its the Snark-le-of-Life!

On the plus side, OP is getting a lot of views on his topic.

This is definitely how Dras feels....

Liberties can do very well. The issue they face is what sets them up for success also sets them up to crash and burn.

Mon Karen, Spinal, Xi7, Gunnery Team, Leading Shots, Intel Officer. Seen it go 10-1, 10-1, 1-10. If you lose your Battle Cruiser you set yourself up for a horrific loss. Large, massively upgraded ships, struggle for consistency.

Someone scoring consistent 7-8 will submarine right past the scary big ship list when they have a bad match up, which they probably will, because they are the big ship list.

This is definitely how Dras feels....

I'm confused about this comment and the previous comment you made good sir.

In my observations, Drasnighta responds to rules questions in the most prompt and detailed way possible. Most of the time this would lead onto further debate or a clearer understanding. So I would assume he would feel indifferent? Unless of course I have not observed times where he has made a comment on someones character.

I don't recall making a comment on someone's character.... Good sir. I was simply stating how this must be how it feels when Dras gets scolded via PM while stating it as it is.

To answer the OP, the list you are looking for is roughly as follows:

Dodonna, Madine or Cracken

Obscene Mon Karren build with gunny teams.

Lots of Corvettes and Flotillas

Small escort squadron force.

Flavour to suit.

Hi I'm Chris and I'm a netlister.

Hi Chris

Harsh.... Surely net listing is just using whatever list seems to be winning most, I would say asking how to be competitive with what is a very thematic but awkward to use ship is in fact anti net listing.....

My cousin ran a Yavaris, 2 transport, Liberty list against me a week ago. His squadrons were... 3 Xs, Jan, Dutch, Nym, and 2 Bs, I think. Obviously his Yavaris did more to me than his Liberty did, but he had more activations than me, and put his Liberty off to the side somewhat facing my ISD, but on the other side of Mr Demo. His strategy seems to be placing sightly farther away, and running it at speed 3. He'll collide with the ISD until one of us is dead, if it's me, he gets to jet off at speed 3, making a commendable getaway.

He ran Dodanna.

I don't recall making a comment on someone's character.... Good sir. I was simply stating how this must be how it feels when Dras gets scolded via PM while stating it as it is.

No, because Dras doesn't deserve it.

To answer the OP, the list you are looking for is roughly as follows:

Dodonna, Madine or Cracken

Obscene Mon Karren build with gunny teams.

Lots of Corvettes and Flotillas

Small escort squadron force.

Flavour to suit.

Ladies and gents, surely the OP's question really was: "how are Liberties performing in competitive play?" You might disagree with his phrasing, but I'm not sure it warranted the response it got, or the digression from the topic we've ended up with.

To return to that question, I haven't played them myself (not yet owning a Liberty), but I have been on the receiving end of a couple of lists that used two Liberties plus a number of smaller supporting ships, with mixed results. They've been most dangerous when one of the Liberties, usually equipped with engine techs, has been used in a flanking manoeuvre, with the bulk of the fleet serving as bait. If one of the Liberties became isolated or trapped, however, they were surprisingly vulnerable: its decent shields don't change the fact that it has low hull for a big ship, and it really misses that defensive retrofit slot, either to make use of those shields with advanced projectors, or to take advantaged of ECMs.

My feeling is that, where ISDs have the staying power to roll in slowly, the Liberty needs to take advantage of its speed: hit hard, and put the pedal to the metal if it starts taking heavy fire.