Its basically the only imp small ship that cant arcdodge at all and still be a threat for its cost. Not counting the punisher because that thing might as well not exist its so bad.

Hey now! Any ships with Barrel Roll can arc dodge. I've played games where it's down to 2 Tie Bombers vs. Jake Farrell and I've Barrel Rolled to avoid arcs. Yeah, it's not common, but anything with BR can arc dodge! I do find that those people that are used to flying PTL Tie Interceptors have a hard time with the ship, though. It does fly differently, but personally I think it's got an awesome dial. One Forward and a 5 K-turn? Heck yeah!

Oh dont get me wrong ive done work with those 2die main guns, but theyre like 2x plus a little more than your run of the mill TIE fighter for basically the same survivability lol (-1agi for +3hull is about the same in my books, since these things just devour crits....). I'll take an arcdodge over a deadeye focus or non-lrs shot but its not going to be as deadly, i just didnt get shot lol.

And Tomax with LReflex is surprisingly agile. He seriously flies circles around people

Oh dont get me wrong ive done work with those 2die main guns, but theyre like 2x plus a little more than your run of the mill TIE fighter for basically the same survivability lol (-1agi for +3hull is about the same in my books, since these things just devour crits....). I'll take an arcdodge over a deadeye focus or non-lrs shot but its not going to be as deadly, i just didnt get shot lol.

And Tomax with LReflex is surprisingly agile. He seriously flies circles around people

My favorite thing to do with him, even if its kinda offensively crap, is the shuttle + tac + rebel cap + LR + Mk2. 31pts for something that is only a 2die hit and usually has no mods, but he is a stressboat that you CANNOT shake. The amount of stress ive had him dish out is hilarious. LR is independent of what happened in your movement, long as you didnt do a red maneuver you can flip 180 and take a stress even if you are already stressed, though the Mk2 makes you almost never need to do that. If i dont have to flip around im usually focusing or barrelrolling to try and get out of range1 / into range2 with that half-base forward trick barrelroll does.

For those that say U-boats were a threat to Tie Bombers......I don't get it. Gamma and Gamma Vet fired before U-boats. If you took 4 Tie Bombers you could burn one U-boat down before it fired. They burned one Tie Bomber down (maybe). You then burned one more U-boat down and they damaged one Tie Bomber. The match worked in your favor.

I was thinking more a long the lines of squads with one or two bombers or lower PS bombers than I was a full squad of Gamma Vets.

I'll be doing some testing, but similar to vineheart, I too have had a lot of success using LRS on Vets with Crackshot. I haven't had a reason to try Deadeye and GChips yet, but I'll give it a shot in a few areas and see what I think. It will be hard for me to give up that Crackshot capability. I've mostly run 3 bombers only, but with one being Tomax and the other two being Vets. Forth ship would normally be Wampa, but I've considered swapping Wampa with an Academy Pilot to give Tomax a Seismic Bomb to deter chasers.

For those that say U-boats were a threat to Tie Bombers......I don't get it. Gamma and Gamma Vet fired before U-boats. If you took 4 Tie Bombers you could burn one U-boat down before it fired. They burned one Tie Bomber down (maybe). You then burned one more U-boat down and they damaged one Tie Bomber. The match worked in your favor.

I was thinking more a long the lines of squads with one or two bombers or lower PS bombers than I was a full squad of Gamma Vets.

Anyone ever tried one of these in their lists?

Deathfire + Conner Net + Flechette Torp + LRS = 23 points...seems really good???

For those that say U-boats were a threat to Tie Bombers......I don't get it. Gamma and Gamma Vet fired before U-boats. If you took 4 Tie Bombers you could burn one U-boat down before it fired. They burned one Tie Bomber down (maybe). You then burned one more U-boat down and they damaged one Tie Bomber. The match worked in your favor.

I was thinking more a long the lines of squads with one or two bombers or lower PS bombers than I was a full squad of Gamma Vets.

I can recommend one there, the Inquisitor (or another 31 point option, but he worked really well so far), 2 Gamma Vets for 27 points each, both using Homing Missiles and with the modification and Elite upgrade of your choice and one Crackshot Black Squadron Pilot. The list maintains a high damage spike early and the Inquisitor can close the game.

Oh dont get me wrong ive done work with those 2die main guns, but theyre like 2x plus a little more than your run of the mill TIE fighter for basically the same survivability lol (-1agi for +3hull is about the same in my books, since these things just devour crits....). I'll take an arcdodge over a deadeye focus or non-lrs shot but its not going to be as deadly, i just didnt get shot lol.

And Tomax with LReflex is surprisingly agile. He seriously flies circles around people

Wow, I never thought about possibly running Lightning Reflexes on Tomax in lieu of Crackshot.....hummmmmmm?

Coolhand+ 2 Officers (:

I've been using a (probably fairly uninspired looking) 4x Bomber list for several months now, to fairly good effect. They sometimes lose a bit of poke against super arc-dodgers after the first shots (assuming the target survives...), but they've always had a decent threat level.

2x Scimitar with LRS, EM, and Homing

2x Gamma Vet with Deadeye, GC, EM, and Homing

The Deadeye over Crackshot is more for target flexibility, and it has come in extraordinarily useful in this list for that exact purpose. It makes the cone of missile targets that much wider when two of the shots aren't telegraphed. It's caught out several Defender heavy lists, and even managed to OTK half a double Ghost list.

I have been thinking about switching one of the Scimitars to a DoomTaxi, and bumping the other Scimitar up to a Gamma Vet with Crackshot for punch against aces.

I'll be doing some testing, but similar to vineheart, I too have had a lot of success using LRS on Vets with Crackshot.

...

I've mostly run 3 bombers only

One Gamma Vet with Crackshot and LRS will be enough to give a 98% chance of doing damage on a fully tokened Stealth Soontir Fel. All you need is one of them to really force that 35 pt ship away with just 27pts.

If you go with another guy with Deadeye and GC, you can fire at someone other than the one PTL Ace that's circling around. You will have more points of your list facing the rest of his list if you do things that way.

Anyone ever tried one of these in their lists?

Deathfire + Conner Net + Flechette Torp + LRS = 23 points...seems really good???

I have not, but I do love Flechette Torps! They are really good for what they do and the point cost.

I'll be doing some testing, but similar to vineheart, I too have had a lot of success using LRS on Vets with Crackshot. I haven't had a reason to try Deadeye and GChips yet, but I'll give it a shot in a few areas and see what I think. It will be hard for me to give up that Crackshot capability. I've mostly run 3 bombers only, but with one being Tomax and the other two being Vets. Forth ship would normally be Wampa, but I've considered swapping Wampa with an Academy Pilot to give Tomax a Seismic Bomb to deter chasers.

ive tried it, since the general consensus i got originally was Deadeye gives me the same freedom of LRS and leaves Gchips open.

No. Feth that crap. I did it with 2 bombers for 5 games and all 5 games my ordnance was just abysmal. Truth its more likely just bad dice but without a reroll in there you have no protection against bad dice.

It does drop you a point since why on earth would you take homers over proton torps if you are using deadeye, which gives you basically 2 guaranteed hits via gchips and ptorps card, but thats what i kept getting lol.

I even tried experimenting with LRS + Deadeye. Yeah, both, you heard me. LRS allows me to have a nasty alphastrike, deadeye lets me followup and ignore the LRS issues. Eh...not worth it lol.

Not to mention, theres a certain degree of fear factor with the LRS that Deadeye doesnt seem to have for some reason.

If you have Deadeye, people are cautious but if they stick together they can usually plow through you anyway and hope they burn that focus early on defense. Plus, Deadeye/Ptrops has no anti evade shenanigans, so people are more expecting it to go onto their big ship and not the nimble ace and they'd be right majority of the time.

However, LRS + Crackshot + Homers offers such a huge risk to that ace that it can actually scare him off. Ive won a couple matches where i only managed to fire one missile because he booked it when i double targetlocked him with cracked homer bombers lol, so he wasnt even in the dogfight. And of course the one missile i got on him before he got my bombers did 2damage thanks to no evade tokens and crackshot. FU SOONTIR! lol

OH, dang. I did forget to mention something I wanted to. For those that haven't tried 4 Tie Bombers with ordnance, if you can, try it. Personally, I think it gives the extra oomph that really makes the list shine.

i have 4 bombers since i bought a 2nd vet box and have yet to try that

It means you can't go with all Vets and ordnance, but You only really need just 1 with Crackshot to scare off the PTL ace. Yes, it's telegraphing, but it can work in your favor.

I do like going with another Vet and Deadeye, though, as it makes it a lot easier.

Don't fly in formation as it's too easy to flank. I almost usually deploy in the middle and try to put at least one big asteroid on their side middle. It encourages them to have that PTL Ace on the other side. It means you can send your one Crackshot guy to face him and the rest of your list can blaze at the rest of his list and smash face.

Oh dont get me wrong ive done work with those 2die main guns, but theyre like 2x plus a little more than your run of the mill TIE fighter for basically the same survivability lol (-1agi for +3hull is about the same in my books, since these things just devour crits....). I'll take an arcdodge over a deadeye focus or non-lrs shot but its not going to be as deadly, i just didnt get shot lol.

And Tomax with LReflex is surprisingly agile. He seriously flies circles around people

Wow, I never thought about possibly running Lightning Reflexes on Tomax in lieu of Crackshot.....hummmmmmm?

Coolhand+ 2 Officers (:

.....expand please.

I'll be doing some testing, but similar to vineheart, I too have had a lot of success using LRS on Vets with Crackshot. I haven't had a reason to try Deadeye and GChips yet, but I'll give it a shot in a few areas and see what I think. It will be hard for me to give up that Crackshot capability. I've mostly run 3 bombers only, but with one being Tomax and the other two being Vets. Forth ship would normally be Wampa, but I've considered swapping Wampa with an Academy Pilot to give Tomax a Seismic Bomb to deter chasers.

However, LRS + Crackshot + Homers offers such a huge risk to that ace that it can actually scare him off. Ive won a couple matches where i only managed to fire one missile because he booked it when i double targetlocked him with cracked homer bombers lol, so he wasnt even in the dogfight. And of course the one missile i got on him before he got my bombers did 2damage thanks to no evade tokens and crackshot. FU SOONTIR! lol

Having two red locks on your ship from Homer carriers? That would scare the **** out of any pilot I'd wager.

So, me being much more ignorant than you guys, should I not hold so tightly to LRS on my Bombers?

I'll be doing some testing, but similar to vineheart, I too have had a lot of success using LRS on Vets with Crackshot. I haven't had a reason to try Deadeye and GChips yet, but I'll give it a shot in a few areas and see what I think. It will be hard for me to give up that Crackshot capability. I've mostly run 3 bombers only, but with one being Tomax and the other two being Vets. Forth ship would normally be Wampa, but I've considered swapping Wampa with an Academy Pilot to give Tomax a Seismic Bomb to deter chasers.

However, LRS + Crackshot + Homers offers such a huge risk to that ace that it can actually scare him off. Ive won a couple matches where i only managed to fire one missile because he booked it when i double targetlocked him with cracked homer bombers lol, so he wasnt even in the dogfight. And of course the one missile i got on him before he got my bombers did 2damage thanks to no evade tokens and crackshot. FU SOONTIR! lol

Having two red locks on your ship from Homer carriers? That would scare the **** out of any pilot I'd wager.

So, me being much more ignorant than you guys, should I not hold so tightly to LRS on my Bombers?

I and I believe Chadwick, too, am of the opinion that a balance is very nice. No more than 50% of your Bombers should have LRS (of course thats no law, play what works for you!), thats a good starting point.

Oh dont get me wrong ive done work with those 2die main guns, but theyre like 2x plus a little more than your run of the mill TIE fighter for basically the same survivability lol (-1agi for +3hull is about the same in my books, since these things just devour crits....). I'll take an arcdodge over a deadeye focus or non-lrs shot but its not going to be as deadly, i just didnt get shot lol.

And Tomax with LReflex is surprisingly agile. He seriously flies circles around people

Wow, I never thought about possibly running Lightning Reflexes on Tomax in lieu of Crackshot.....hummmmmmm?

Coolhand+ 2 Officers (:

.....expand please.

Tomax + Shuttle + Fleet Officer + other crew of choice. Action is the fleet officer which gives a focus to 2 ships (including yourself) and gives yourself a stress. Coolhand procs and gives you an evade or focus, Tomax doesnt discard it. Repeat.

Thats the first thing i did with him and its surprisingly hard to take down since hes sitting at range3 and has an evade lol.

I'll be doing some testing, but similar to vineheart, I too have had a lot of success using LRS on Vets with Crackshot. I haven't had a reason to try Deadeye and GChips yet, but I'll give it a shot in a few areas and see what I think. It will be hard for me to give up that Crackshot capability. I've mostly run 3 bombers only, but with one being Tomax and the other two being Vets. Forth ship would normally be Wampa, but I've considered swapping Wampa with an Academy Pilot to give Tomax a Seismic Bomb to deter chasers.

However, LRS + Crackshot + Homers offers such a huge risk to that ace that it can actually scare him off. Ive won a couple matches where i only managed to fire one missile because he booked it when i double targetlocked him with cracked homer bombers lol, so he wasnt even in the dogfight. And of course the one missile i got on him before he got my bombers did 2damage thanks to no evade tokens and crackshot. FU SOONTIR! lol

Having two red locks on your ship from Homer carriers? That would scare the **** out of any pilot I'd wager.

So, me being much more ignorant than you guys, should I not hold so tightly to LRS on my Bombers?

I think it honestly depends on your build and your local meta. If you see a lot of lists with 2-3 aces, more LRS. Not so much arc dodging/evade tokened x7s, probably more Deadeye GChips.

LRS is so awesome against aces. You cant arcdodge me at range3, so you are forced to flank me very wide and hope i didnt predict that. Technically deadeye is in the same boat but i prefer LRS...its just so much deadlier to me having a TL + Focus on Homers than Gchips on Ptorps.

I am intrigued by this list:

I was toying with the 4 bombers idea:

Few ideas I put together for 3 ship lists that include a couple of Gamma Vets. I'm used to running 4 ship lists (not always all bombers) that include bombers, so I'm mainly looking for additional firepower to support the first engagement.

2 Gamma Vets w/ Crackshot, Homing Missiles, LRS, Extra Muns

Buzzsaw Whipser w/ VI, FCS, Adv Cloaking, Gunner

98 pts

Sidenote: Could swap Gunner for Rebel Captive to add Seismic Charges for both Vets making it 100 pts.

Whisper strips focus tokens and gets damage through with consistent 4 dice primary.

OR

2 Gamma Vets w/ Crackshot, Homing Missiles, LRS, Extra Muns, Seismic Charges

Colonel Vessery w/ Ruthlessness, Tractor Beam, MK2, T/D

98 pts

Sidenote: Could swap Seismic Charges for Thermal Dets making it 100 pts.

Colonel Vessery can take advantage of the LRSs and tag the targets with Tractor Beam tokens and potentially pull arc dodgers back into arc for the Vets.

For those that say U-boats were a threat to Tie Bombers......I don't get it. Gamma and Gamma Vet fired before U-boats. If you took 4 Tie Bombers you could burn one U-boat down before it fired. They burned one Tie Bomber down (maybe). You then burned one more U-boat down and they damaged one Tie Bomber. The match worked in your favor.

I was thinking more a long the lines of squads with one or two bombers or lower PS bombers than I was a full squad of Gamma Vets.

Anyone ever tried one of these in their lists?

Deathfire + Conner Net + Flechette Torp + LRS = 23 points...seems really good???

Yeah, I run Deathfire with this build + EM. He is an Ace's worse nightmare. Connered Vader, then Vess tractor beamed him into range 1, then Vess and Maarek proceeded to wipe Vader off the board. Flechettes help make him a threat in first round of fire before moving in with Conners. Deathfire also usually fires last, so Proton Torps are also good on him to drive a crit through