Having played in a fairly large tournament where scyks and Khiraxz received +1 shield for free (even better than +1 hull), I would have to say that its not going to make Scyks all that awesome. However, I am excited that FFG did this, and approve of the change (something is better than nothing!)

PS2 Scyk without the title is still over costed by 1pt and PS5 Tansarii without title is still over costed by 2pts, but now the PS2 Scyk with title is about correct and the PS5 with title is like...0.5pts over costed, which is entirely tolerable compared to what we had previously.

What's your metric for saying the TPV is overcosted by 2? Just curious.

The difference between Academy Pilot and Black Squadron Pilot.

A PS2 Scyk has certain advantages over a PS1 Academy TIE that make it a 13pt ship and not a 12pt ship, but the difference between Academy Tie and Black Squadron Pilot is an increase of +3 Pilot Skill and the addition of an EPT slot. FFG chose to make such an improvement worth 2points.

Tansarii Pilot Vet is also an increase of +3 PS an an EPT slot over the Cartel Spacer, but for some reason the cost increase is 3 in this instance, even though it should be exactly the same as an upgrade from the Academy TIE to the Black Squadron Pilot.

As a result of the conclusion that the PS2 generic is 1pt over costed and that the tax on going from the PS2 Scyk to the PS5 Scyk is 1pt too much, I conclude that the PS5 Tansarii (without title) is over costed by 2pts. I think that the data on their usage supports this conclusion.

I grasp your logic now. Thanks.

The rationale for cost deltas get a little murky and open to interpretation at low PS on cheap, swarmy ships. I see the Academy as actually having a 2 point anti-swarm tax, whereas the PS3 Obsidian and PS2 Cartel Spacer each only have a 1 point tax. Then then PS4+EPT Black and PS5+EPT Tansarii are each the benchmark for costing each of their respective ship types in my scheme.

Interesting alternative take.

The Cartel Spacer with Heavy Scyk title plus Hull Upgrade and Mangler Cannon... 3 / 3 / 4 / 1 23 Points. I may need a third M3-A.

Three of these led by Fenn Rau with Concord Protector title plus Adaptability and Autothrusters.

PS2 Scyk without the title is still over costed by 1pt and PS5 Tansarii without title is still over costed by 2pts, but now the PS2 Scyk with title is about correct and the PS5 with title is like...0.5pts over costed, which is entirely tolerable compared to what we had previously.

I hate MathWing, and I'm a long-time competitive player who's been playing in tournaments since Wave 1. Mathwing is pretty useless, and this assumption that the value of all ships is an objective, absolute thing that can be calculated is laughable, in no small part because the value of a ship is entirely relative to what it's facing on the actual table (think Soontir vs 8 Zs vs Soontir vs Deci+Gunner+Vader), not based upon some rigid absolute number that decrees balanced or broken after checking against a hyper-abstract jousting value.

is this real, or someone just photoshopped some pink text next to a picture?

It hadn't occured to me that Scyks are now a decent tractor platform, especially if you have Swarm Tactics somewhere.

Honestly, Serissu with title, tractor, juke and hull is one of my favorite tractor troll ships.

I really hate hard errata though - because your cards still say the old stuff - and eventually someday some dude is gonna challenge you on it, at a time where you can't pull up the FAQ on your phone because of low signal or something...

They should just hand out a TON of replacement cards now. Everyone at every tournament for the next 2 years gets like 4 of every errata'd card.

I hate MathWing, and I'm a long-time competitive player who's been playing in tournaments since Wave 1. Mathwing is pretty useless, and this assumption that the value of all ships is an objective, absolute thing that can be calculated is laughable, in no small part because the value of a ship is entirely relative to what it's facing on the actual table (think Soontir vs 8 Zs vs Soontir vs Deci+Gunner+Vader), not based upon some rigid absolute number that decrees balanced or broken after checking against a hyper-abstract jousting value.

I agree that the math can't tell you everything about the game of X-Wing, not even close. But like, what are you arguing? That we shouldn't use math to try and calculate the value of anything?

If that's the case, what would you use as your baseline if you were put in charge of designing new ships for the game? Would you base all your new ships around the point costs of previous ships and hope they're roughly equivalent? What do you think those early ships were based off of?

Mathwing does not predict the entire game, but we have to try and calculate a baseline for our ship values somehow , and that's what the point system is supposed to be for.

With this scyk fix, they are definitely viable at a store tournament level. I will be curious to see how well they do at regionals level. The TPV Mindlink builds have true potential now.

Mostly this fix is wonderful because Scum finally has a reasonable ship in the 18-22 point range.

The Scyk is now clearly better than a generic Kihraxz or generic Protectorate.

PS2 Scyk without the title is still over costed by 1pt and PS5 Tansarii without title is still over costed by 2pts, but now the PS2 Scyk with title is about correct and the PS5 with title is like...0.5pts over costed, which is entirely tolerable compared to what we had previously.

I hate MathWing, and I'm a long-time competitive player who's been playing in tournaments since Wave 1. Mathwing is pretty useless, and this assumption that the value of all ships is an objective, absolute thing that can be calculated is laughable, in no small part because the value of a ship is entirely relative to what it's facing on the actual table (think Soontir vs 8 Zs vs Soontir vs Deci+Gunner+Vader), not based upon some rigid absolute number that decrees balanced or broken after checking against a hyper-abstract jousting value.

The data is a useful tool. If someone thinks it is an absolute predictor the they are using the data incorrectly.

I don't see a lot of top players running squads that are contrary to what Mathwing data.

PS2 Scyk without the title is still over costed by 1pt and PS5 Tansarii without title is still over costed by 2pts, but now the PS2 Scyk with title is about correct and the PS5 with title is like...0.5pts over costed, which is entirely tolerable compared to what we had previously.

I hate MathWing, and I'm a long-time competitive player who's been playing in tournaments since Wave 1. Mathwing is pretty useless, and this assumption that the value of all ships is an objective, absolute thing that can be calculated is laughable, in no small part because the value of a ship is entirely relative to what it's facing on the actual table (think Soontir vs 8 Zs vs Soontir vs Deci+Gunner+Vader), not based upon some rigid absolute number that decrees balanced or broken after checking against a hyper-abstract jousting value.

Just because a mathematical model has limitations, it does not mean that it is useless. The world of modern science and technology around you proves that.

OP: reposting my original post here :

FFG made a hard errata on the Heavy Scyk title to grant +1 hull. Not coincidentally, I already have the numbers for that, since that was my exact proposed fix over a year ago .

Cartel Spacer + HLC + title now has a jousting efficiency on par with a vanilla TIE Fighter or Z-95, at least in a wave 5 meta * .

FFG, and anyone else who wants to fly Scyks: you're welcome.

* Offer not valid in all corners of the galaxy. The meta has changed since wave 5. New named pilots have substantially pushed the game's power curve up, even without Contracted Scouts. Side effects of Heavy Scyk + Heavy Laser Cannon may include nauseating variance and spontaneous explosions of your own ships. If you bring Heavy Scyks to Worlds, you will still lose to Paul Heaver and Aaron Bonar because they're just better than you.

Short answer: they're better but the PS2s are still going to be cannon fodder, albeit extremely high variance dangerous cannon fodder. Mindlink versions could have some legs, but I haven't run through all those permutations yet, or updated for wave 9+.

Mathwing is pretty useless

I'll bite: citation please.

Counter point: The FFG developers just decided to use my proposed fix from about a year and a half ago. MathWing even without any playtesting data was able to reach a better conclusion than the developers of the game could at the time. This sort of thing has happened in every release; I point out a problem pre-release and FFG goes back and fixes it a few years later (TIE Defenders, TIE Advanced, T-65 X-wings, etc). You are of course entitled to your opinion, but it has already been empirically disproven for the last several years.

and this assumption that the value of all ships is an objective, absolute thing that can be calculated is laughable, in no small part because the value of a ship is entirely relative to what it's facing on the actual table (think Soontir vs 8 Zs vs Soontir vs Deci+Gunner+Vader), not based upon some rigid absolute number that decrees balanced or broken after checking against a hyper-abstract jousting value.

As the author of MathWing, I can definitely state that this assumption does not exist. I have long stated that cost efficiency is highly matchup dependent. It is possible that others may interpret a singular averaged number as a universal one-size-fits-all, but that points to a problem with the communication and interpretation of the process, not the underlying math itself.

I've seen many people do well lists. Now they're better. So I'd say it's a great, much needed fix. Now let's see how you can get the punisher playable!

I've been doing pretty well with Mindlinked Mango Scyks and Palob. I'm loving the hell out of this.

I really hate hard errata though - because your cards still say the old stuff - and eventually someday some dude is gonna challenge you on it, at a time where you can't pull up the FAQ on your phone because of low signal or something...

They should just hand out a TON of replacement cards now. Everyone at every tournament for the next 2 years gets like 4 of every errata'd card.

Since they have Print on Demand capabilities I agree this would be ideal. I would add errata packs available for shipping costs only.

I really hate hard errata though - because your cards still say the old stuff - and eventually someday some dude is gonna challenge you on it, at a time where you can't pull up the FAQ on your phone because of low signal or something...

They should just hand out a TON of replacement cards now. Everyone at every tournament for the next 2 years gets like 4 of every errata'd card.

Since they have Print on Demand capabilities I agree this would be ideal. I would add errata packs available for shipping costs only.

Or you could just print out the FAQ yourself so you don't have to rely on signals or battery power. (I don't have a smart phone so it's my only option anyway).

Serissu could be another possible Scum Ace option now. PS 10, with a range 1 no-go zone and at 5 hitpoints (Tie Advanced durability) behind 3 agility at 32 points (or 31 with HU). Unfortunately, she's pretty worthless outside of Range 1 besides her ability.

Serissu (20)
Veteran Instincts (1)
Autoblaster (5)
Shield Upgrade (4)
"Heavy Scyk" Interceptor (Cannon) (2)

Total: 32

View in Yet Another Squad Builder

Serissu could be another possible Scum Ace option now. PS 10, with a range 1 no-go zone and at 5 hitpoints (Tie Advanced durability) behind 3 agility at 32 points (or 31 with HU). Unfortunately, she's pretty worthless outside of Range 1 besides her ability.

Serissu (20)

Veteran Instincts (1)

Autoblaster (5)

Shield Upgrade (4)

"Heavy Scyk" Interceptor (Cannon) (2)

Total: 32

View in Yet Another Squad Builder

Serissu's ability really needs to let her benefit from it as well for her to worth 30+ points.

I've got two Sycks but I've barely used them.

Are there any ships in particular people think they'll work well with?

I've got two Sycks but I've barely used them.

Are there any ships in particular people think they'll work well with?

Mindlinkers. Manaroo comes to mind, pretty much anything with an EPT.

Yes, the Scyck is fixed. The mindlink variant is now the ultimate instrument of power in this galaxy (well okay, overfixed Defenders technicaly take that spot). Seriously, those guys just got that tiny bit of oomph I demanded last week or so.

I was running 100% M3A lists before this news... and they were preforming well.

I may be the only one, but this may have gone to far.... not sure yet its probably an ok change but what a massive increase in defence for a full M3A list if it keeps one extra ship alive to shoot each turn it will be insane.

before reality set in, I trolled opponents with the combination of Serissu and palob

no matter whom you shoot at first, the other is there to make life annoying

and that was before mindlink

hell, before TLT

I did do some flying with scyks that effectively had this change for a campaign test I ran a while back. It helps, but don't expect scyks to jump onto the top tables immediately.

I think that it will be very interesting to see how a mind linked scyk swarm will do, though

DAM-A-TOP-TABLE...

I have been doing the extra hull since the month they came out...

HEAVY SEEKERS ... DUR, let me FIX Dat For Yea FFG!

The fix is a real fix. It's a good ship now. Throw on Mind Link and it's doing better. My only complaint is that the vanilla is still 1 pt too much. It's a fun little Tie Fighter with a TL that I've enjoyed.