Also, I foresee a LOT of Rebel players trotting out Sabine's TIE and loading it up with lots of points only to realize after a game or two what everyone who's ever flown the Empire has known: you don't sink a bunch of points into a ship with 3 hull and no shield. There's a good reason you don't see experienced Imperial players putting 20+ point TIE Fighters into their lists, outside of Howlrunner. I saw some people proposing 26 point versions of Sabine and I just shook my head thinking "Just wait until you roll 3 blanks on your greens and lose a quarter of your squad points in one shot, then you'll learn."

Well, you know, is different when your Tie fighter cannot be shooted. With those points I can think about some Sabinecrew+Bomb+EMP, so no attack until you have done your work.

Problem is, B-wings were pushed out by the Jumpmasters... but I'm not convinced they'll come back while the x7 Defender reigns even more supreme.

Ain't that the truth! B wings get eaten for lunch by defenders /7 and/Ds

Problem is, B-wings were pushed out by the Jumpmasters... but I'm not convinced they'll come back while the x7 Defender reigns even more supreme.

Ain't that the truth! B wings get eaten for lunch by defenders /7 and/Ds

Not to mention Dengaroo. No way they're catching Manaroo, and no way they're going toe-to-toe with Dengar, especially with the B-Wing's 2-K.

Did you know that you can check List Juggler right now to find out what the meta is going to be like after the Jumpmaster nerf. If you check recent tournaments of greater than 20 people, you will find that torpedo Jumpmasters are already a very small percentage of winning lists. Why did they make Jumpmasters into Nerfmasters again? This unnecessary change is the very definition of arbitrary.

Here are some examples:

10/11/2016 Montreal 22 players

- A TLT regen list wins

10/08/2016 Roseville, MN 28 players

- X7 Defenders top 2

- TLT regen 3rd

- The lone 3x Jumpmasters is 6th

09/24/2016 Belgium Nationals 81 players

- Triple X7 Defenders wins

- Only 1 torpedo Jumpmasters list in top16 & it didn't crack top8

The RECENT tournament results are at odds with the choice to nerf torpedo Jumpmasters.

and so the conspiracy begins

Did you know that you can check List Juggler right now to find out what the meta is going to be like after the Jumpmaster nerf. If you check recent tournaments of greater than 20 people, you will find that torpedo Jumpmasters are already a very small percentage of winning lists. Why did they make Jumpmasters into Nerfmasters again? This unnecessary change is the very definition of arbitrary.

Here are some examples:

10/11/2016 Montreal 22 players

- A TLT regen list wins

10/08/2016 Roseville, MN 28 players

- X7 Defenders top 2

- TLT regen 3rd

- The lone 3x Jumpmasters is 6th

09/24/2016 Belgium Nationals 81 players

- Triple X7 Defenders wins

- Only 1 torpedo Jumpmasters list in top16 & it didn't crack top8

The RECENT tournament results are at odds with the choice to nerf torpedo Jumpmasters.

and so the conspiracy begins

You're missing the point a bit, in my opinion. Torp scouts suppressed a lot of squads in the meta because people didnt play them in fear of running into torp scouts. But torp scouts themselves were not the top list, so other lists showed up on top of tournament results. This doesnt mean that if say the stress hog makes it back into the meta the top squads wouldnt change. Therefore i think you will see a different meta now that torp scouts are likely gone.

Did you know that you can check List Juggler right now to find out what the meta is going to be like after the Jumpmaster nerf. If you check recent tournaments of greater than 20 people, you will find that torpedo Jumpmasters are already a very small percentage of winning lists. Why did they make Jumpmasters into Nerfmasters again? This unnecessary change is the very definition of arbitrary.

Here are some examples:

10/11/2016 Montreal 22 players

- A TLT regen list wins

10/08/2016 Roseville, MN 28 players

- X7 Defenders top 2

- TLT regen 3rd

- The lone 3x Jumpmasters is 6th

09/24/2016 Belgium Nationals 81 players

- Triple X7 Defenders wins

- Only 1 torpedo Jumpmasters list in top16 & it didn't crack top8

The RECENT tournament results are at odds with the choice to nerf torpedo Jumpmasters.

and so the conspiracy begins

The nerf is not because they're winning too much, it's because of how much they're hurting list diversity. Since the U-boats landed the entire Rebel faction's playability has been judged solely based on whether or not it can survive them, and for far too many of their ships the answer is "we can't". By knocking this one list out of the way a half-dozen others will be allowed to return, several of which have favourable matchups against the Imperial lists that have dominated in their absence.

? This unnecessary change is the very definition of arbitrary.

Your bizarre allegiance to the faction continues to bemuse.

Triple x7s wasn't suppressed by triple Uboats, so I'm betting you'll see them just as much as before.

Also, I still favor two x7s and an Ace. Threw that against one of the better players in my group and he just said afterwards "Those things are impossible to lay damage on."

But now that triple scouts is WAY less effective (gasp, they actually have to deal with target locking torps at PS3...), I think you'll see a lot more ships of lower agility come back into use since they can't just be insta-killed by a scout with chips and protons.

Also, I foresee a LOT of Rebel players trotting out Sabine's TIE and loading it up with lots of points only to realize after a game or two what everyone who's ever flown the Empire has known: you don't sink a bunch of points into a ship with 3 hull and no shield. There's a good reason you don't see experienced Imperial players putting 20+ point TIE Fighters into their lists, outside of Howlrunner. I saw some people proposing 26 point versions of Sabine and I just shook my head thinking "Just wait until you roll 3 blanks on your greens and lose a quarter of your squad points in one shot, then you'll learn."

So once the "Oh God, look at all my upgrade options!" period dies down, the Rebel TIEs have some decent abilities and you'll see them naked or with one upgrade tops.

Ha, I has this exact discussion with a Rebel player in my team. He was talking about his optimal Sabine Wren build, and I worked what mine would be to compare. Mine was 15pts :-)

Did you know that you can check List Juggler right now to find out what the meta is going to be like after the Jumpmaster nerf. If you check recent tournaments of greater than 20 people, you will find that torpedo Jumpmasters are already a very small percentage of winning lists. Why did they make Jumpmasters into Nerfmasters again? This unnecessary change is the very definition of arbitrary.

Here are some examples:

10/11/2016 Montreal 22 players

- A TLT regen list wins

10/08/2016 Roseville, MN 28 players

- X7 Defenders top 2

- TLT regen 3rd

- The lone 3x Jumpmasters is 6th

09/24/2016 Belgium Nationals 81 players

- Triple X7 Defenders wins

- Only 1 torpedo Jumpmasters list in top16 & it didn't crack top8

The RECENT tournament results are at odds with the choice to nerf torpedo Jumpmasters.

and so the conspiracy begins

I heard about the nerf a couple of months ago and then the delay in announcing it had finally convinced me they weren't going to do it because Scouts has declined a bit in the meantime.

I think they needed to nerf because of they didn't the acouts would be back at some point and everyone would complain all over again. Best to get ahead of the game.

Triple x7s wasn't suppressed by triple Uboats, so I'm betting you'll see them just as much as before.

Also, I still favor two x7s and an Ace. Threw that against one of the better players in my group and he just said afterwards "Those things are impossible to lay damage on."

But now that triple scouts is WAY less effective (gasp, they actually have to deal with target locking torps at PS3...), I think you'll see a lot more ships of lower agility come back into use since they can't just be insta-killed by a scout with chips and protons.

Also, I foresee a LOT of Rebel players trotting out Sabine's TIE and loading it up with lots of points only to realize after a game or two what everyone who's ever flown the Empire has known: you don't sink a bunch of points into a ship with 3 hull and no shield. There's a good reason you don't see experienced Imperial players putting 20+ point TIE Fighters into their lists, outside of Howlrunner. I saw some people proposing 26 point versions of Sabine and I just shook my head thinking "Just wait until you roll 3 blanks on your greens and lose a quarter of your squad points in one shot, then you'll learn."

So once the "Oh God, look at all my upgrade options!" period dies down, the Rebel TIEs have some decent abilities and you'll see them naked or with one upgrade tops.

Would not be so sure of that. I mean the TIE-Fighter Slaughterhouse lists is a thing, a list full of high ps TIEs around 20 points. edit: Not that I would disgree that trimming fat is good for a list, especially if you trim at somthing as nimble as a 3 hul, 2 attack dice tie-fighter.

http://stayontheleader.blogspot.co.at/2016/06/wars-not-make-one-great-reporting-back.html

I think the players in Malaysia are probably the only community in the world who are not severely affected by this. Because of the Asian embargo we didn't get that much Jumpmasters in so only a few bought more than one. Triple Js didn't exactly catch up here hehehe

Would not be so sure of that. I mean the TIE-Fighter Slaughterhouse lists is a thing, a list full of high ps TIEs around 20 points. edit: Not that I would disgree that trimming fat is good for a list, especially if you trim at somthing as nimble as a 3 hul, 2 attack dice tie-fighter.

http://stayontheleader.blogspot.co.at/2016/06/wars-not-make-one-great-reporting-back.html

As a devoted fan of 'murder Hs' I'm excited to see TIE Fighters coming to Rebels, and I can well imagine running something like 4x TIE Fighter and Poe, or 4x TIE 2x A-Wing (HHHHAA - I'm naming that list right now!). But those TIEs will be barely upgraded, because their pilot ability alone is good enough.

19 pt Sabine + ptl + mkII engine should be just right...

The Torp Boats will still exist, but will just look a little different.

Umm... no, they won't.

Unless by look a little different you mean, will look like a totally different ship. Because the Jumpmaster torp boat is dead.

Adaptability

EM

Plasma Torps

K4 Droid

Chimps

33 points a piece.

Not dead just changed. Easier to counter now that they have to shoot with locks so i doubt we will see three of them in a list. Maybe two of them with a friend (Fenn, Zuckuss, Ol Terry etc.)

The Torp Boats will still exist, but will just look a little different.

Umm... no, they won't.

Unless by look a little different you mean, will look like a totally different ship. Because the Jumpmaster torp boat is dead.

Contracted scout

Adaptability

EM

Plasma Torps

K4 Droid

Chimps

33 points a piece.

Not dead just changed. Easier to counter now that they have to shoot with locks so i doubt we will see three of them in a list. Maybe two of them with a friend (Fenn, Zuckuss, Ol Terry etc.)

Adaptability Trickshot

Problem is, B-wings were pushed out by the Jumpmasters... but I'm not convinced they'll come back while the x7 Defender reigns even more supreme.

Ain't that the truth! B wings get eaten for lunch by defenders /7 and/Ds

Not to mention Dengaroo. No way they're catching Manaroo, and no way they're going toe-to-toe with Dengar, especially with the B-Wing's 2-K.

19 pt Sabine + ptl + mkII engine should be just right...

And only 4pts more than optimal! ;-) She won't be arc-dodging much at PS5 so all that maneuvering is likely to be a shot in the dark.

I can imagine putting Wired onto Ahsoka so I don't feel too bad about discarding her Focus, but otherwise I'd probably leave them naked.

19 pt Sabine + ptl + mkII engine should be just right...

And only 4pts more than optimal! ;-) She won't be arc-dodging much at PS5 so all that maneuvering is likely to be a shot in the dark.

I can imagine putting Wired onto Ahsoka so I don't feel too bad about discarding her Focus, but otherwise I'd probably leave them naked.

crackshot

19 pt Sabine + ptl + mkII engine should be just right...

And only 4pts more than optimal! ;-) She won't be arc-dodging much at PS5 so all that maneuvering is likely to be a shot in the dark.

I can imagine putting Wired onto Ahsoka so I don't feel too bad about discarding her Focus, but otherwise I'd probably leave them naked.

crackshot

No, I don't think so. Only if the points are going spare.

You've no Howlrunner so you're not presenting that same jousting firepower that Crack Shot supports in TIE Swarms, and with only two EPT slots on the four pilots you can't build a critical mass of Crack Shots. I think you put Wired onto Ahsoka and it's really not clear if there's anything on Sabine other than PTL, which I wouldn't want to invest in. Adaptability probably.

crackshot is the difference between a ship that does no damage and a ship that might contribute to the game

4 hwks is the new meta

crackshot is the difference between a ship that does no damage and a ship that might contribute to the game

The only EPT ever to be assigned is Crack Shot, then?

That's such a massive overgeneralisation. I've done very well with Crack Swarm and I would back myself to judge when Crack Shot makes sense and when it doesn't. It doesn't make sense on Ahsoka and it doesn't have any particular synergy into Sabine, you're probably better off Adaptability her PS down and using her pilot ability to create bumps.

crackshot is the difference between a ship that does no damage and a ship that might contribute to the game

The only EPT ever to be assigned is Crack Shot, then?

To Tie Fighters, ie the subject of this thread?

hell yeah!

(note not "Tie Fighters" ito ship-type restricted upgrade elligiblity, as the SF and FO have pilots that can work with other epts)

crackshot is the difference between a ship that does no damage and a ship that might contribute to the game

The only EPT ever to be assigned is Crack Shot, then?

To Tie Fighters, ie the subject of this thread?

hell yeah!

(note not "Tie Fighters" ito ship-type restricted upgrade elligiblity, as the SF and FO have pilots that can work with other epts)

I think you'll get a rude shock when you try and run them without Howlrunner. Without that help in creating 2 hits you'll find fewer occasions where Crack Shot on an evade result would result in an incremental damage. Crack Shot is also declining in usefulness anyway as rebel regen returns because dealing 1 damage is no longer a permanent impact on the board state. Crack Shot has had it's moment in the sun. Outside of Howlrunner-fuelled Crack Swarms in a meta without significant regeneration it's nowhere near as good as it has been this summer.

the only rude shock is trying to hit through green dice (any number of green dice) without crackshot

except on Rex, of course, hands are sorta tied there