I'd really love to find an explanation for the polarizing misunderstanding though.

Perhaps a better choice of word in stead of "resolve" would be "solve".

I mean, I've had this conversation with French speakers, where resolve is translated into "résoudre", which is also the word we use for "solve". So the temporality of the "resolve" action in this language is less clear-cut, but you still get people claiming "résoudre" means the endpoint only, despite us all playing the same game where resolve very clearly means do the whole deal.

We don't need to go this far analyzing "resolves" usage. The FAQ in the last sentence for G8 outright says that it is before the determine course step. (Sure, that sentence is for the interaction with engine tech, but the standard timing should follow the same flow)

Funny you should say so, because I did say the same in page 3 of this very thread, and was told this isn't a valid point.

Tirion has made a complete recovery so here goes...gasoline on the fire...

We don't need to go this far analyzing "resolves" usage. The FAQ in the last sentence for G8 outright says that it is before the determine course step. (Sure, that sentence is for the interaction with engine tech, but the standard timing should follow the same flow)

And right before THAT sentence is: "This effect can be resolved on an enemy ship that is executing a maneuver from an effect such as Engine Techs." What step is the ship "executing a maneuver" in?

Also, has a player that is fiddling with his man tool resolved the Determine Course step?

I think there are valid arguments that have been made in this thread (even though we should be in the rules thread ) But I totally understand the confusion/lack of understanding/issues with G-F$%&*g-8s right now.

One thing we can be 100% certain of: If you want to G-8 a ship, do it early in that ships activation so there is no confusion. (Gink's "Don't be a prat" timing supersedes all other timings)

As of right now, the problem I am having is "resolve" being included in the card text, because all other instances resolve is the conclusion/ending/using an effect.

Right, I've done this before, in the proper thread, but I must confess I find this ordeal fascinating, so here it goes again.

Resolve is never used in the RRG to mean "the conclusion/ending." It might mean something close on a card or in the FAQ, in the past tense, but there's no trace of this concept in the RRG itself.

Now, I'll agree with you, resolve is used to mean "using an effect."

But whenever you resolve an effect, surely it means you do the whole deal. To resolve G8, you tap the card and declare intent. To resolve Leading shots, you spend the die, pick the dice you want and reroll them.

In other words, to resolve something in Armada, you just read the **** card and do everything you're told.

And now, more interestingly, resolve is used in the RRG to mean "proceed through the step".

Attack, p2: "Attack: To perform an attack with a squadron or ship, resolve the following steps:"

Quick Reference, p16 : "Attack resolution: To perform an attack with a squadron or ship, proceed through the following steps:"

Now, that's a direct substitution in the same context. This is linguistic proof that in the context of the document, A means B.

But that's probably not going to be enough. Luckily, examples are aplenty.

Attack, p2: "Resolve Damage: The attacker can resolve one of its critical effects. Then the attacker determines the total damage amount. Then the defending squadron or hull zone suffers that total damage, one point at a time."

How do you "resolve damage?"

Again, the whole step is a process with several operations, one of which is the possible resolution of a crit effect (we need to go deeper!). Just like you can resolve a navigate command while resolving the determine course step.

There's a before you resolve damage (every step of the attack phase beforehand), there's a while you resolve damage (any operation within) and there's an after you resolve damage, or after damage is resolved if you prefer (every step of the attack afterwards, so something like Declare additional targets or your second attack). Why on earth would that work differently for the Determine course step?

And this is why, kids, resolve does not mean what you think it means.

It's almost as if they had defined timing words in a separate entry in the RRG, and the word resolve was just language with no timing information at all.

Regardless of fair play, or how things would go around a table, RAW dictate that G8 is declared before the determine course step and its effect is resolved before the determine course step. And now, magically, not a single timing issue. No MTG interrupt, no fiddling, no problem.

You can resume GIF posting.

Finally a legitimate argument as to why G8 is before the Determine Course step. I am inclined to agree with this and thank you for pulling teeth to write this up.

And right before THAT sentence is: "This effect can be resolved on an enemy ship that is executing a maneuver from an effect such as Engine Techs." What step is the ship "executing a maneuver" in?

I'll take a wild stab at this and say the step where any maneuvering is done, cleverly named the Execute maneuver step , the third step of a Ship activation as defined in p11 of the RRG. The step that contains the Determine course step, or two different Determine course steps if you're resolving an effect that gives you an extra maneuver.

Also, has a player that is fiddling with his man tool resolved the Determine Course step?

Fiddling with the man tool *is* resolving the Determine Course step. That's a terrible, terrible way to talk about onanism though.

And right before THAT sentence is: "This effect can be resolved on an enemy ship that is executing a maneuver from an effect such as Engine Techs." What step is the ship "executing a maneuver" in?

I'll take a wild stab at this and say the step where any maneuvering is done, cleverly named the Execute maneuver step , the third step of a Ship activation as defined in p11 of the RRG. The step that contains the Determine course step, or two different Determine course steps if you're resolving an effect that gives you an extra maneuver.

Also, has a player that is fiddling with his man tool resolved the Determine Course step?

Fiddling with the man tool *is* resolving the Determine Course step. That's a terrible, terrible way to talk about onanism though.

Whoa! Whoa! Whoa! Nobody is talking about onanism. Dang. I blame GK.

/\_

_________/\_________/ \______

I can't get it to format correctly......

I discussed this with my wife, and she said that fiddling with the MAN tool isn't complete unless you resolve the Maneuver phase, but Definitely no fiddling until there is an adequate determine course step. I'm beginning to think she isn't talking about Armada....

My man tool made this a fun thread.

Are we all happy now? =)

Never, time to demand Demo nerfs and fixes to make the Raider viable.

Are we all happy now? =)

Never, time to demand Demo nerfs and fixes to make the Raider viable.

Actually that's not so far from home - given the rumours of a Demo fix being considered, and how they have just bit the bullet and flat out changed something to fix the X wing meta via the recent FAQ, I wonder how close they came to doing something similar with Demo? Or Rhymer?

I'd really love to find an explanation for the polarizing misunderstanding though.

Perhaps a better choice of word in stead of "resolve" would be "solve".

I mean, I've had this conversation with French speakers, where resolve is translated into "résoudre", which is also the word we use for "solve". So the temporality of the "resolve" action in this language is less clear-cut, but you still get people claiming "résoudre" means the endpoint only, despite us all playing the same game where resolve very clearly means do the whole deal.

Respectfully, I'm going to point out that I called it. The situation is a language issue, in that the word can be used in multiple tenses (past, present, past-into-present, etc) and I wondered if other versions of the game in non-English languages had the same issue.

I'm guessing that this was done so that FFG could change it based on future developments if necessary, but they need to fully clarify these sorts of issues (at least for the initial rulings) no later than when the card is released.

The card was written that way because it's the language used throughout the rules, there's nothing more to it. Resolve is used 50+ times in the RRG, you resolve phases, steps, effects, damage, and so on, and I've never heard of an argument about its meaning before this card popped up.

My best guess is that people read much more into this particular card because they really want the G8 to be an interrupt, as someone pointed out earlier. While Armada has no interrupt mechanic, resolve is used a lot in MTG and probably other games where interrupts abound, so the leap isn't too big.

Also, the vast majority of people have very little metalinguistic awareness, which doesn't help at all in this case.

The card was written that way because it's the language used throughout the rules, there's nothing more to it. Resolve is used 50+ times in the RRG, you resolve phases, steps, effects, damage, and so on, and I've never heard of an argument about its meaning before this card popped up.

My best guess is that people read much more into this particular card because they really want the G8 to be an interrupt, as someone pointed out earlier. While Armada has no interrupt mechanic, resolve is used a lot in MTG and probably other games where interrupts abound, so the leap isn't too big.

Also, the vast majority of people have very little metalinguistic awareness, which doesn't help at all in this case.

Says the protocol Droid....

You guys need to run for Congress or something and make sure our bills are on the level begore getting passed.

You guys need to run for Congress or something and make sure our bills are on the level begore getting passed.

You couldn't Pay me enough to FAQ anything in the US.

Maybe if they had just used "begins" or "starts" instead of "resolves"....

The way I played G-8 in my last tournament, when my opponent was done with their attacks, I would think a moment about whether I would use G-8. They would start thinking about their move, but if they said "OK I'm using my token change speed to 3," or if it looked like they were about to notch quickly, I would say "hold on, I'm still thinking about whether or not to use G-8." Easy!

I would want to see an FAQ that said I could use it after the opponent spends a token before I play it that way. Playing it that way is just too confusing and would require further rules explanation.

You guys need to run for Congress or something and make sure our bills are on the level begore getting passed.

First bill passed:More funding to FFG so they can produce Armada articles/content on a weekly basis.

Maybe if they had just used "begins" or "starts" instead of "resolves"....

The way I played G-8 in my last tournament, when my opponent was done with their attacks, I would think a moment about whether I would use G-8. They would start thinking about their move, but if they said "OK I'm using my token change speed to 3," or if it looked like they were about to notch quickly, I would say "hold on, I'm still thinking about whether or not to use G-8." Easy!

I would want to see an FAQ that said I could use it after the opponent spends a token before I play it that way. Playing it that way is just too confusing and would require further rules explanation.

How do I add a picture!!!????

How do I add a picture!!!????

Easiest?

Upload it to Photobucket.

View it in Photobucket.

Look at the right side of the screen, where you'll see quartet of links. I believe its the 3rd one down you want.

Click it to add it to Clipboard.

Then paste it here.

Done.

OTHERWISE, your best bet is to upload it somewhere.... Find the actual image link (and not just a link to the page its on, drill the link all the way down to the .jpg or .png or whatever it is), and then past that link in the forums surrounded by IMG and /IMG tags, in square brackets.

I cannot wait to see this picture.

Thank you