Yeah I gotta say I've definitely see "the Dras circle" happen several times now...

Person A: I have this question

Dras: Here is how it should work. Note my quotes from the RRG and application of common sense and references to similar rulings in the past in the areas where it might appear a little unclear.
Person B: well aren't you just some kind of @$$hole, lording over us and ruining my fun and the way I play it
Dras: wut

Persons B-G: That's just, like, your opinion, man.

Dras: why do I even

As someone who has a roughly similar temperament to Dras (so far as I can tell), my heart goes out to him.

Meh... Poor MS-1s... I loved to use them to exhaust my opponent's non-exhaustable cards. It was more fun that way.

I was thinking more along the lines of the timing on G8. Yes, it says "Before" but also states "Resolves". And we already know about that thread. So if you fall into the before the resolution of the step, you could ask for a potential maneuver, and then decide to use G8.

I plan on playing G8 before you go into the step, simply to speed up the game and I am getting better at anticipating where a ship can land at it's current speed.

You'd be right to play G8 before your opponent goes into the step because that's the only correct timing to do so.

See the FAQ wording about G8, second paragraph, for extremely plain English timing explanation : "This effect is resolved before the Determine Course step" .

It feels like I've copypasted that before.

I was thinking more along the lines of the timing on G8. Yes, it says "Before" but also states "Resolves". And we already know about that thread. So if you fall into the before the resolution of the step, you could ask for a potential maneuver, and then decide to use G8.

I plan on playing G8 before you go into the step, simply to speed up the game and I am getting better at anticipating where a ship can land at it's current speed.

You'd be right to play G8 before your opponent goes into the step because that's the only correct timing to do so.

See the FAQ wording about G8, second paragraph, for extremely plain English timing explanation : "This effect is resolved before the Determine Course step" .

It feels like I've copypasted that before.

Course isn't determined until the maneuver tool is notched, right?

Course isn't determined until the maneuver tool is notched, right?

This is irrelevant.

The RRG defines a Determine Course step.

The FAQ now plainly says G8 is resolved before the Determine Course step.

Course isn't determined until the maneuver tool is notched, right?

Until the Tool is placed on the table with the intention of being Notched.

You guys have confused me. I have now gone from not even knowing FCT + XX9 + APT was a thing to having two different views of their use expressed, and the people I usually rely on (Drasnighta for example) responding to people claiming 'it' is unfortunate in ambiguously worded (for me) phrases. As such, how many face-up damage cards does this combo deal, potentially?

Thank you.

I was thinking more along the lines of the timing on G8. Yes, it says "Before" but also states "Resolves". And we already know about that thread. So if you fall into the before the resolution of the step, you could ask for a potential maneuver, and then decide to use G8.

I plan on playing G8 before you go into the step, simply to speed up the game and I am getting better at anticipating where a ship can land at it's current speed.

You'd be right to play G8 before your opponent goes into the step because that's the only correct timing to do so.

See the FAQ wording about G8, second paragraph, for extremely plain English timing explanation : "This effect is resolved before the Determine Course step" .

It feels like I've copypasted that before.

You're wrong because you are quoting the text that references Engine Techs.

This effect can be resolved on an enemy ship that is executing a maneuver from an effect such as Engine Techs. This effect is resolved before the Determine Course step of that maneuver and reduces the ship’s temporary speed by 1 to a minimum of 0.

Where as the first paragraph refers to the usage of the card.

When this effect is resolved on an enemy ship and that ship changes its speed dial during the Determine Course step, the ship’s speed is temporarily reduced by 1 from the current speed on its dial.

So let's go over this in extremely plain English.

"This effect" refers to G8. "Before the Determine Course step of that maneuver" refers to the maneuver resulting from the usage of Engine Techs.

[G8] can be resolved on an enemy ship that is executing a maneuver from an effect such as Engine Techs. [G8] is resolved before the Determine Course step of [an Engine Tech] maneuver and reduces the ship’s temporary speed by 1 to a minimum of 0.

Now let's go over the other paragraph.

When [G8] is resolved on an enemy ship and that ship changes its speed dial during the Determine Course step, the ship’s speed is temporarily reduced by 1 from the current speed on its dial.

The FAQ does not refer to the timing of G8, with the exception of targeting an Engine Techs maneuver, because one of the frequently asked questions was "Can I use G8 to target an Engine Techs maneuver." FFG was polite enough to include the timing on only that usage.

Do not imply I don't know how to read and speak English because I ask a hotly disputed question which was not directly answered in the FAQ.

/full tilt

Course isn't determined until the maneuver tool is notched, right?

This is irrelevant.

The RRG defines a Determine Course step.

The FAQ now plainly says G8 is resolved before the Determine Course step.

^ THIS

Stop making stuff complex when it's simple.

Course isn't determined until the maneuver tool is notched, right?

Until the Tool is placed on the table with the intention of being Notched.

But the maneuver can be changed up I til it is notched... So how do you gauge that intent?

You guys have confused me. I have now gone from not even knowing FCT + XX9 + APT was a thing to having two different views of their use expressed, and the people I usually rely on (Drasnighta for example) responding to people claiming 'it' is unfortunate in ambiguously worded (for me) phrases. As such, how many face-up damage cards does this combo deal, potentially?

Thank you.

First you resolve APT.

Potentially 1 face up.

Then you resolve XX-9.

Potentially 2 more face up.

End of story.

Course isn't determined until the maneuver tool is notched, right?

Until the Tool is placed on the table with the intention of being Notched.

But the maneuver can be changed up I til it is notched... So how do you gauge that intent?

Fortunately you don't need top worry about that.

You must declare G-8 BEFORE.

Problem solved. Or rather, there was no problem.

I was thinking more along the lines of the timing on G8. Yes, it says "Before" but also states "Resolves". And we already know about that thread. So if you fall into the before the resolution of the step, you could ask for a potential maneuver, and then decide to use G8.

I plan on playing G8 before you go into the step, simply to speed up the game and I am getting better at anticipating where a ship can land at it's current speed.

You'd be right to play G8 before your opponent goes into the step because that's the only correct timing to do so.

See the FAQ wording about G8, second paragraph, for extremely plain English timing explanation : "This effect is resolved before the Determine Course step" .

It feels like I've copypasted that before.

You're wrong because you are quoting the text that references Engine Techs. This effect can be resolved on an enemy ship that is executing a maneuver from an effect such as Engine Techs. This effect is resolved before the Determine Course step of that maneuver and reduces the ship’s temporary speed by 1 to a minimum of 0.

Where as the first paragraph refers to the usage of the card.

When this effect is resolved on an enemy ship and that ship changes its speed dial during the Determine Course step, the ship’s speed is temporarily reduced by 1 from the current speed on its dial.

So let's go over this in extremely plain English.

"This effect" refers to G8. "Before the Determine Course step of that maneuver" refers to the maneuver resulting from the usage of Engine Techs.

[G8] can be resolved on an enemy ship that is executing a maneuver from an effect such as Engine Techs. [G8] is resolved before the Determine Course step of [an Engine Tech] maneuver and reduces the ship’s temporary speed by 1 to a minimum of 0.

Now let's go over the other paragraph.

When [G8] is resolved on an enemy ship and that ship changes its speed dial during the Determine Course step, the ship’s speed is temporarily reduced by 1 from the current speed on its dial.

The FAQ does not refer to the timing of G8, with the exception of targeting an Engine Techs maneuver, because one of the frequently asked questions was "Can I use G8 to target an Engine Techs maneuver." FFG was polite enough to include the timing on only that usage.

Do not imply I don't know how to read and speak English because I ask a hotly disputed question which was not directly answered in the FAQ.

/full tilt

So you're saying that the combination of the words 'resolve' and 'before' mean different things for regular and ET moves?

"Resolve" means complete....or am I wrong?

I was thinking more along the lines of the timing on G8. Yes, it says "Before" but also states "Resolves". And we already know about that thread. So if you fall into the before the resolution of the step, you could ask for a potential maneuver, and then decide to use G8.

I plan on playing G8 before you go into the step, simply to speed up the game and I am getting better at anticipating where a ship can land at it's current speed.

You'd be right to play G8 before your opponent goes into the step because that's the only correct timing to do so.

See the FAQ wording about G8, second paragraph, for extremely plain English timing explanation : "This effect is resolved before the Determine Course step" .

It feels like I've copypasted that before.

You probably have.

Despite this beginning the only reasonable and raw-supported interpretation, still we get arguments to the contrary.

"Resolve" means complete....or am I wrong?

Not if you try to twist before you resolve into a 'while' timing.

Dead horse beating time!

You know what would solve all of these timing debates? A operations order diagram, like the one they released for X-Wing! I'm still surprised they haven't released one for Armada.

So you're saying that the combination of the words 'resolve' and 'before' mean different things for regular and ET moves?

No, I never said that. I was responding to his response that G8 timing was fixed via the FAQ. I am in full agreement that for a normal maneuver, you use G8 before the Determine Course step happens. What I am arguing is the FFG made a ruling on the timing in regards to Engine Techs, not a normal maneuver.

For reference, this is what I said:

The FAQ does not refer to the timing of G8, with the exception of targeting an Engine Techs maneuver, because one of the frequently asked questions was "Can I use G8 to target an Engine Techs maneuver." FFG was polite enough to include the timing on only that usage.

Take my argument at face value and do not try to insert your opinions to mask them as my own. I made my point extremely clear.

Course isn't determined until the maneuver tool is notched, right?

Until the Tool is placed on the table with the intention of being Notched.

But the maneuver can be changed up I til it is notched... So how do you gauge that intent?

Fortunately you don't need top worry about that.

You must declare G-8 BEFORE.

Problem solved. Or rather, there was no problem.

So does your opponent declare his attack phase is over? I can see an issue if opponent chooses to make one attack instead of two.

Dead horse beating time!

You know what would solve all of these timing debates? A operations order diagram, like the one they released for X-Wing! I'm still surprised they haven't released one for Armada.

Mostly because this is the single exception to the standard timing, that it would look awkward on a unified chart? Maybe?

Course isn't determined until the maneuver tool is notched, right?

Until the Tool is placed on the table with the intention of being Notched.

But the maneuver can be changed up I til it is notched... So how do you gauge that intent?

Fortunately you don't need top worry about that.

You must declare G-8 BEFORE.

Problem solved. Or rather, there was no problem.

So does your opponent declare his attack phase is over? I can see an issue if opponent chooses to make one attack instead of two.

A good time would be when he whips out his man tool and starts fiddling it.

It's probably also ok to let him play with it for a little while before you declare.

But if you wait until he's put his tool down you've missed your opportunity.

I'm taking practical application here btw.

I mean, even at super serial tournaments, if I know my opponent has G-8s, I ask them if they are going to G-8 me before I put the tool down, if I remember. It just plays faster and goes easier that way.

Course isn't determined until the maneuver tool is notched, right?

Until the Tool is placed on the table with the intention of being Notched.

But the maneuver can be changed up I til it is notched... So how do you gauge that intent?

Fortunately you don't need top worry about that.

You must declare G-8 BEFORE.

Problem solved. Or rather, there was no problem.

So does your opponent declare his attack phase is over? I can see an issue if opponent chooses to make one attack instead of two.

A good time would be when he whips out his man tool and starts fiddling it.

It's probably also ok to let him play with it for a little while before you declare.

But if you wait until he's put his tool down you've missed your opportunity.

I'm taking practical application here btw.

GK, can you please put a NSFW spoiler on posts like this next time?

Course isn't determined until the maneuver tool is notched, right?

Until the Tool is placed on the table with the intention of being Notched.

But the maneuver can be changed up I til it is notched... So how do you gauge that intent?

Fortunately you don't need top worry about that.

You must declare G-8 BEFORE.

Problem solved. Or rather, there was no problem.

So does your opponent declare his attack phase is over? I can see an issue if opponent chooses to make one attack instead of two.

If they end their attack and quickly jump into the Determine Course step, you can declare a missed opportunity and still use G8. Even if they notch it in a unreasonably speedy manner. Like moving a ship at speed 1 straight forward.

Course isn't determined until the maneuver tool is notched, right?

Until the Tool is placed on the table with the intention of being Notched.

But the maneuver can be changed up I til it is notched... So how do you gauge that intent?

Fortunately you don't need top worry about that.

You must declare G-8 BEFORE.

Problem solved. Or rather, there was no problem.

So does your opponent declare his attack phase is over? I can see an issue if opponent chooses to make one attack instead of two.

If they end their attack and quickly jump into the Determine Course step, you can declare a missed opportunity and still use G8. Even if they notch it in a unreasonably speedy manner. Like moving a ship at speed 1 straight forward.

Per the new tournament rules, a missed opportunity has to be approved by both players.