When I say 'rule lawyer', I don't mean a person who points out how a tricky card, interaction, or phrase is correctly done. Conciseness and clarity are very good things, especially in a game with this much variety and so many interactions. No, I mean the person who tries to use sometimes ambiguous or sloppy wording to their advantage (and lets all face it, FFG is really good at ambiguous and sloppy wording).

This weekend, I was yelled at when I asked a guy if he was really going to argue what the meaning of 'turn' and 'round' was, especially when considering that the card in question (Thane's pilot ability) didn't even mention 'round' or 'turn'. I was genuinely curious if he was serious, because I have never heard someone do that before. I'm not even sure what his argument was, but he ended up yelling that I should, "enjoy being a *****", as he huffed and sort of slammed his tokens and pieces around. Needless to say, its stuff like that guy's attitude that can really ruin a match (or game, depending on how someone wants to define it...). It makes matter a little worse since this guy tries to be be more present and representative of our local X-Wing community, but he routinely talks people down and has on occasion even almost forced new players out of the game (They just sort of avoid him after a little while).

This isn't meant to be an attack on this one guy, but it did bring to mind the numerous times a match I have played in has been more or less ruined by 'rule lawyering', and how being this pedantic when the the intend or use of a card clear. Early on in the game, I had a guy try to argue that 'you' meant the player, not the ship (I cannot remember if this clarified in the earliest version of the rules). Someone tried to argue that that both actions on Gonk couldn't be used per turn, even though they are obviously two separate actions. I saw a guy argue that Extra Munitions could technically be used twice - giving a torpedo 4 shots - because Extra Munitions was used in the torpedo slot and this got an extra munitions token. I had a guy try to argue that a 'round' was one entire game during a tournament. There are plenty more, but you get the point.

We all like being competitive, but sometimes this just gets out of control. Does anyone else experience this? Or am I just being a baby after being yelled at and called a **** for asking if a guy was seriously arguing something that....strange?

Actually before it was FAQ'd I asked the rules department at FFG and got the answer "no cannot do that since both actions come from the same card", so I could at least understand where that guy comes from, since getting an "official" answer from the FFG rules department is a thing I'd normally trust... but then it was exactly different in the FAQ.

Oh yeah, i remember that. Well, then file that under FFG being bad at wording and making sloppy decisions sometimes.

I had a match where I played against "that guy". It had been a very friendly game during a tournament up until this point. I was using Dengar and had all 3 of his ships lined up in my arc. He was taking shots with all 3 at Dengar and after the second I told him I was going to use my return fire skill and painbot since I knew if I waited until his 3rd ship he just wouldnt shoot so I couldnt shoot back. The third ship was also almost dead and at range one so it would have been suicide for him to take the shot. Well when I announced that I was using Dengar's ability he said that he still had to take his shot with his last ship. I told him ok go ahead and take his shot and he waited a few seconds before announcing that he wasnt going to take it. I said well then I am taking my Dengar ability shot that I announced and at that point he pull the "rules lawyer" by saying I couldnt since we were past that point. Yes he was correct that we were past that point but I only didnt take the shot because he announced he was shooting with his last ship. I was pissed and demanded a TO and the idiot sided with him even though I had announced my shot. The TO said that I had missed my chance which according to the rules I had. This was the last match of the tournament and the guy had lost every match that day. I think he was trying to pull anything he could to try and win one. I looked right at him and told him that he was going home 0-4 for the day and he did.

I honestly dont care if I win or lose as long as I have fun, and I cant stand those type of people who turn into assholes if they arent winning. This guy played me to screw me out of taking a shot at him. The rest of the game though I was making sure every rule was followed to the T. When he had forgotten to place his evade token down I told him he wasnt allowed because we were past that point when against most players I would have allowed it. The rest of the game was much rougher on him that it had to be all because he pulled that sh*tty move. In the end it ended up hurting him more than if he had just been a fair player from the start.

I cant stand those type of people who turn into assholes if they arent winning.

[snip]

The rest of the game though I was making sure every rule was followed to the T. When he had forgotten to place his evade token down I told him he wasnt allowed because we were past that point when against most players I would have allowed it.

You do realize that from a certain viewpoint this is incredibly ironic, right? He played you, sure (at least it seems that way, it could have been unintentional), but then you went full on a-hole? Wow.

I cant stand those type of people who turn into assholes if they arent winning.

[snip]

The rest of the game though I was making sure every rule was followed to the T. When he had forgotten to place his evade token down I told him he wasnt allowed because we were past that point when against most players I would have allowed it.

You do realize that from a certain viewpoint this is incredibly ironic, right? He played you, sure (at least it seems that way, it could have been unintentional), but then you went full on a-hole? Wow.

Why should I go out of my way to be friendly to someone who would pull something like that? Other than not being friendly towards him after that all i did was insist on the same adherence to the rules that he was trying to pull. Also what he pulled was in no way unintentional. He was deliberate in acting like he was taking the 3rd shot.

The TO said that I had missed my chance which according to the rules I had.

It sounds like the TO was dead wrong. The other guy effectively skipped over your chance to do something which is against the rules.

but then you went full on a-hole? Wow.

It's called Karma. The guy in this story fully got what he had coming to him based on natedawguscm's story.

If someone starts yelling at me, I don't care who you are, your going to get hurt.

...over plastic spaceships. Hopefully the TO in this case stands for "thrown out" because that's what you'd deserve. Handle it like an adult, don't be an overgrown baby.

Also, *you're.

It's one thing to get agitated, but to yell at someone and slam things around is very aggressive, and I nor anyone else deserves to be treated like that. Especially over a game. It's a form of abuse and everyone deserves better respect. To be fair I'd like to say I'd probablt wouldn't get violent right away, but if the guy deserves it, and is abusing others verbally, then ya, he has it coming

Sorry but my belief is some people just need a good smash to the mouth. Is it right? No, but if it were okay to slap stupid, We'd see a lot less stupid. That's the problem now a days, grown adults act like spoiled brats because they know they can and most won't do anything about it. Especially at a lgs, where most people probably never fought a day in their lives. If they were to act like that in a hardware store or at coffee shop, somebody would probably end up doing it, as rightfully so.

Sorry but one thing I hate in this world are assholes. I'm not a violent person, so don't take me wrong. But I really hate assholes. Makes my blood boil reading these kind of stories. Maybe if I was there it wouldn't be as bad as it sounds, but I'd give a person a chance to calm down, and a warning, after that, I'm not responsible. Yelling at someone is no way to treat anyone. He shouldn't be allowed back in that store. I know if I was a store owner and saw someone act in such childish behavior, one warning, after that I'd grab him and throw him out myself

When I say 'rule lawyer', I don't mean a person who points out how a tricky card, interaction, or phrase is correctly done. Conciseness and clarity are very good things, especially in a game with this much variety and so many interactions. No, I mean the person who tries to use sometimes ambiguous or sloppy wording to their advantage (and lets all face it, FFG is really good at ambiguous and sloppy wording).

This weekend, I was yelled at when I asked a guy if he was really going to argue what the meaning of 'turn' and 'round' was, especially when considering that the card in question (Thane's pilot ability) didn't even mention 'round' or 'turn'. I was genuinely curious if he was serious, because I have never heard someone do that before. I'm not even sure what his argument was, but he ended up yelling that I should, "enjoy being a *****", as he huffed and sort of slammed his tokens and pieces around. Needless to say, its stuff like that guy's attitude that can really ruin a match (or game, depending on how someone wants to define it...). It makes matter a little worse since this guy tries to be be more present and representative of our local X-Wing community, but he routinely talks people down and has on occasion even almost forced new players out of the game (They just sort of avoid him after a little while).

This isn't meant to be an attack on this one guy, but it did bring to mind the numerous times a match I have played in has been more or less ruined by 'rule lawyering', and how being this pedantic when the the intend or use of a card clear. Early on in the game, I had a guy try to argue that 'you' meant the player, not the ship (I cannot remember if this clarified in the earliest version of the rules). Someone tried to argue that that both actions on Gonk couldn't be used per turn, even though they are obviously two separate actions. I saw a guy argue that Extra Munitions could technically be used twice - giving a torpedo 4 shots - because Extra Munitions was used in the torpedo slot and this got an extra munitions token. I had a guy try to argue that a 'round' was one entire game during a tournament. There are plenty more, but you get the point.

We all like being competitive, but sometimes this just gets out of control. Does anyone else experience this? Or am I just being a baby after being yelled at and called a **** for asking if a guy was seriously arguing something that....strange?

Lucky, every single game I have played, this has never been the case. Sure there is confusion on rules and timing, but never as a mechanism to gain a competitive advantage, so lucky this really is not a problem in the community. If anything, it is more theoretical in the rules questions posts. I guess the only example I can think up is paragumba with the asinine questions/posts who would 'rules lawyer' you to gain an advantage. Just check out some of the rules questions he asks- such as setting up your ships beyond range one of the nubs, etc.

If this happens (As in the OP) just call the TO, to help sort it out. TOs have the freedom to make judgement calls and keep the spirit of the game in line, so if a player, wants to 'lawyer away' your stress bot away, you have some recourse. In this example, I feel that in your first case, this is a classic example of straight up unsportsmanlike conduct.

The other examples, seem more like misinterpretation of the rules, which I think everyone has done at some point- when you 'know' how something works but ended up totally wrong. People should not confuse genuine misunderstanding of the rules with being a rules lawyer.

Obvious answer: if they're like that guy, then yes, they ruin the game for everyone.

If they're polite when lawyering, then it may be annoying, but whatever--some people are just like that. Just have a link to the FAQ in your phone and you won't have to worry about it.

But referring to the FAQ on your phone is referring to outside material, and is not allowed in a competitive environment (something else i have heard argued).

Yeah, politeness goes a long way.

Yeah, I guess 'rule lawyer' wasn't the right term, I was just kind of at a loss on what to say.

It doesn't help that people like that tend to be the loudest abut their opinions and thoughts.

And as far as referring to the FAQ on a phone goes, the guys argued that because it was on the phone, and not a print out or directly from the TO, it was not allowed...yeah.

...

"Rule Lawyer" is inaccurate but it has been the term used to describe someone who would selectively or creatively use the "rules" to their own advantage. Usually they have the most success against someone who isn't all that familiar with the rules and lacks the confidence to stand up in some kind of confrontation. A great many of them just LOVE things that can be argued both ways because they WILL argue something both ways depending on which way gives them the bigger benefit.

While I don't like the rule lawyers I do appreciate those who have an accurate and consistent knowledge of the rules and who can quietly point out when errors are made. If someone points out that you failed to take a Stress token after shooting at a ship with Rebel Captive for the first time that round you should THANK them even if they aren't playing and place the token.

Before playing X-Wing I'd been playing 40k for about 15 years, and was generally "the rules guru" of my group, having a good memory of rules (not always perfect, thanks to remembering previous editions) and right more often then wrong.

I aim to play x wing properly, especially in tournaments. I will remind my opponent to take their actions if they forget, and if I forget I will ask, but not demand, to take the action. I'm pretty easy going, as the aim of the game (in my eyes) is to have fun, within the constraints of the game.

However, I'm also capable of being incredibly petty, and whenever I've played against an incredibly rules lawyer type of player (thankfully rare among my area) I will return the favour.

If you live by the rules lawyering, you shall die by the rules lawyering.

I think those people are Rules Criminals, not Rules Lawyers

F this is a tournament, call the TO over. It's never the wrong call and can make the game more enjoyable.

...

But a ******, such as the one the OP described, may argue a TO is "outside material".

I had a match where I played against "that guy". It had been a very friendly game during a tournament up until this point. I was using Dengar and had all 3 of his ships lined up in my arc. He was taking shots with all 3 at Dengar and after the second I told him I was going to use my return fire skill and painbot since I knew if I waited until his 3rd ship he just wouldnt shoot so I couldnt shoot back. The third ship was also almost dead and at range one so it would have been suicide for him to take the shot. Well when I announced that I was using Dengar's ability he said that he still had to take his shot with his last ship. I told him ok go ahead and take his shot and he waited a few seconds before announcing that he wasnt going to take it. I said well then I am taking my Dengar ability shot that I announced and at that point he pull the "rules lawyer" by saying I couldnt since we were past that point. Yes he was correct that we were past that point but I only didnt take the shot because he announced he was shooting with his last ship. I was pissed and demanded a TO and the idiot sided with him even though I had announced my shot. The TO said that I had missed my chance which according to the rules I had. This was the last match of the tournament and the guy had lost every match that day. I think he was trying to pull anything he could to try and win one. I looked right at him and told him that he was going home 0-4 for the day and he did.

I honestly dont care if I win or lose as long as I have fun, and I cant stand those type of people who turn into assholes if they arent winning. This guy played me to screw me out of taking a shot at him. The rest of the game though I was making sure every rule was followed to the T. When he had forgotten to place his evade token down I told him he wasnt allowed because we were past that point when against most players I would have allowed it. The rest of the game was much rougher on him that it had to be all because he pulled that sh*tty move. In the end it ended up hurting him more than if he had just been a fair player from the start.

All this grief could have been so easily avoided by just insisting that you had your return attack immediately after the second ship's attack, as you were supposed to. By letting him move on, you got suckered. Admittedly, he played you, but at the end of the day were you more cheesed off at him or yourself?

Referring to the TO as an "idiot" because he made the correct decision based on the facts, kind of tells me you were more cheesed at yourself than anyone else.

When I say 'rule lawyer', I don't mean a person who points out how a tricky card, interaction, or phrase is correctly done. Conciseness and clarity are very good things, especially in a game with this much variety and so many interactions. No, I mean the person who tries to use sometimes ambiguous or sloppy wording to their advantage (and lets all face it, FFG is really good at ambiguous and sloppy wording).

This weekend, I was yelled at when I asked a guy if he was really going to argue what the meaning of 'turn' and 'round' was, especially when considering that the card in question (Thane's pilot ability) didn't even mention 'round' or 'turn'. I was genuinely curious if he was serious, because I have never heard someone do that before. I'm not even sure what his argument was, but he ended up yelling that I should, "enjoy being a *****", as he huffed and sort of slammed his tokens and pieces around. Needless to say, its stuff like that guy's attitude that can really ruin a match (or game, depending on how someone wants to define it...). It makes matter a little worse since this guy tries to be be more present and representative of our local X-Wing community, but he routinely talks people down and has on occasion even almost forced new players out of the game (They just sort of avoid him after a little while).

This isn't meant to be an attack on this one guy, but it did bring to mind the numerous times a match I have played in has been more or less ruined by 'rule lawyering', and how being this pedantic when the the intend or use of a card clear. Early on in the game, I had a guy try to argue that 'you' meant the player, not the ship (I cannot remember if this clarified in the earliest version of the rules). Someone tried to argue that that both actions on Gonk couldn't be used per turn, even though they are obviously two separate actions. I saw a guy argue that Extra Munitions could technically be used twice - giving a torpedo 4 shots - because Extra Munitions was used in the torpedo slot and this got an extra munitions token. I had a guy try to argue that a 'round' was one entire game during a tournament. There are plenty more, but you get the point.

We all like being competitive, but sometimes this just gets out of control. Does anyone else experience this? Or am I just being a baby after being yelled at and called a **** for asking if a guy was seriously arguing something that....strange?

There's a fine line between rules lawyers and cheats. Most of the time rules lawyers are on the correct side of the line... most of the time. Some people can get wound up over the darnedest things. And usually something fairly trivial to the logical thinking gamer. "Turn" and "round" can sometimes be very much the same thing depending on context, but to lose the plot over it, is something pretty bizarre. Sounds like a WAAC sort of player, that wasn't winning. They tend to get huffy when things aren't going according to their narrow little plan. We used to have a guy like this at our local wargames club, and he effectively ostracized himself because of his attitude. No one wanted to play him because no one wanted to endure the argument that came with every game. He was an OK guy most of the time, but when it was game time, he became the world's biggest a-hole. When I pointed out the flaw in his argument, he just called me an idiot and said I didn't have a clue. That was my cue to pack up and go home. In over 35 years of gaming this was the only guy that made me just give up on the game and start packing my gear away half way through. Gaming, no matter what the game, should be fun and when the fun departs, so do I.

As for your other points, "you" has always referred to the active ship, never the player (and that's both rulebooks). Gonk has been ruled both ways in his brief lifetime in the game, but he's FAQ'd now, so that's sorted. You can put an extra ordnance token on the Extra Munitions card, but that doesn't duplicate the card, it just makes it safe from Boba Fett (crew). Game rounds and tournament rounds are two very separate things, and to avoid confusion should be referred to as "game rounds" and "tournament rounds", but it's hardly something to have an argument over.

Some competitive players do take things way too seriously, to the point where the fun aspect diminishes rapidly. I have two very good friends that are highly competitive players, and in order to keep those friendships, I just try and avoid playing them at certain games. They're both very close to being "that WAAC guy", especially over those certain games. Playing other games, they're great fun to play against. It all depends on the game sometimes.

I can be a bit of a rules lawyer sometimes, but it's in the interest of making sure the game is played correctly. And in some cases, it has been detrimental to my game, but the game continued correctly and in the end the game was fun. And I think that's the key point. Fun. When it's no longer fun, you need to find someone else, somewhere else, or something else to play. Because I think fun is the key ingredient to gaming.

I can be a bit of a rules lawyer sometimes, but it's in the interest of making sure the game is played correctly. And in some cases, it has been detrimental to my game, but the game continued correctly and in the end the game was fun. And I think that's the key point. Fun. When it's no longer fun, you need to find someone else, somewhere else, or something else to play. Because I think fun is the key ingredient to gaming.

That's my goal as well. I always try to follow the rules as best I can and avoid interactions on my list that can cause problems. For example, before I learned about the concept of nested actions, when flying Jake in the A-Wing, I would always focus to reposition first before I used Push the Limit, because I wasn't sure when the stress token from Push kicked in. So I got around it by just not worrying about it and doing things in ways I knew for a fact followed the rules. At the time I was mostly playing with a friend who has a LOT of board games and is REALLY good at keeping complex rules straight in his mind, and any interpretation differences we had could always be solved civilly. Again, all in the name of keeping the game fun.

Likewise, if I'm playing with someone less experienced or flying a new component, if I know I'm tracking the rules better than him/her, I'll do my best to help them without outright giving it away. Case in point: just this last Saturday I was playing a casual match with a friend at the FLGS. He was flying his TIE/sf for the first time. The first time he attacked out of the front arc, he rolled only 2 dice (at range 2 or 3, can't remember which). I first said "You sure that's all the dice you get?" He answered in the affirmative. I asked him again: "You're positive? Check your title card again." He sort of glanced at it and said "yeah" again. I paused for a few seconds, said "All right, if you're sure..." and hesitated for a few more seconds, then announced "Okay, and my green dice" and rolled them. Immediately after the attack was resolved, I walked him through the TIE/sf title, and he sort of chastised himself for missing that.

The reason I did it that way is that I'm a big advocate of learning through doing, making your own mistakes. He's a smart player, and he's pretty good at the game (we're pretty much evenly matched, at least, I'd say), so I wanted to give him the opportunity to use the list that he brought to its potential that I knew it had. He definitely never forgot that extra die out the front again after that, and he **** near almost beat me in that game (came down to an Ion /D Defender vs. Norra... had to make Norra's defensive dice mods work REAL hard to avoid being ion'd), and he had just tossed that list together. But for me, it just seems not nearly as much fun if your opponent is just walking you through your own list, unless it's a brand-new player. This guy was not a brand new player, so I gave him the hints without telling him the answer, but at the same time, didn't want him to make the same mistake again.

Even in a competitive setting, I'll give away an opportunity I noticed my opponent missing. When I'm expecting something to happen and it doesn't, I slow the pace of the my list's components, dropping hints like "All right, that's all you're going to do?" And if they're sure, I'll move on. Then when we move on I'll let the opponent know what they missed.

Rules lawyering is all about knowing the rules. In this case it just plain and simple cheating. 4 shots out of 1 Torpedo, really? "You" has been clarified ages ago too an gonk … well gonk got as well cleared up.

So all cases are blatant ignorance or down right cheating.

But the most hilarious one is really the idea that you can not look up the FAQ.

I cant stand those type of people who turn into assholes if they arent winning.

[snip]

The rest of the game though I was making sure every rule was followed to the T. When he had forgotten to place his evade token down I told him he wasnt allowed because we were past that point when against most players I would have allowed it.

You do realize that from a certain viewpoint this is incredibly ironic, right? He played you, sure (at least it seems that way, it could have been unintentional), but then you went full on a-hole? Wow.

I cant stand those type of people who turn into assholes if they arent winning.

[snip]

The rest of the game though I was making sure every rule was followed to the T. When he had forgotten to place his evade token down I told him he wasnt allowed because we were past that point when against most players I would have allowed it.

You do realize that from a certain viewpoint this is incredibly ironic, right? He played you, sure (at least it seems that way, it could have been unintentional), but then you went full on a-hole? Wow.

Ahhhh how do you even come to this conclusion??? Guy announces return fire, guy 2 says he will finish his 3rd pilots shot first. Guy says no worries as it's been a friendly tourney. Guy 2 fires 3rd ship, then proceeds to tell Guy that he missed his opportunity. This is all kinds of ****** up. This is intentional deceit and seriously bad for the game. Guy 1 then suits up and plays Guy 2's game of playing exactly as the rules are written. This is not bad, this is beating a player at their own game. Some people are socially awkward and need to win at any cost, these people need to be taught lessons.

When I say 'rule lawyer', I don't mean a person who points out how a tricky card, interaction, or phrase is correctly done. Conciseness and clarity are very good things, especially in a game with this much variety and so many interactions. No, I mean the person who tries to use sometimes ambiguous or sloppy wording to their advantage (and lets all face it, FFG is really good at ambiguous and sloppy wording).

This weekend, I was yelled at when I asked a guy if he was really going to argue what the meaning of 'turn' and 'round' was, especially when considering that the card in question (Thane's pilot ability) didn't even mention 'round' or 'turn'. I was genuinely curious if he was serious, because I have never heard someone do that before. I'm not even sure what his argument was, but he ended up yelling that I should, "enjoy being a *****", as he huffed and sort of slammed his tokens and pieces around. Needless to say, its stuff like that guy's attitude that can really ruin a match (or game, depending on how someone wants to define it...). It makes matter a little worse since this guy tries to be be more present and representative of our local X-Wing community, but he routinely talks people down and has on occasion even almost forced new players out of the game (They just sort of avoid him after a little while).

This isn't meant to be an attack on this one guy, but it did bring to mind the numerous times a match I have played in has been more or less ruined by 'rule lawyering', and how being this pedantic when the the intend or use of a card clear. Early on in the game, I had a guy try to argue that 'you' meant the player, not the ship (I cannot remember if this clarified in the earliest version of the rules). Someone tried to argue that that both actions on Gonk couldn't be used per turn, even though they are obviously two separate actions. I saw a guy argue that Extra Munitions could technically be used twice - giving a torpedo 4 shots - because Extra Munitions was used in the torpedo slot and this got an extra munitions token. I had a guy try to argue that a 'round' was one entire game during a tournament. There are plenty more, but you get the point.

We all like being competitive, but sometimes this just gets out of control. Does anyone else experience this? Or am I just being a baby after being yelled at and called a **** for asking if a guy was seriously arguing something that....strange?

I don't know if this offers any comfort to you, but being a tournament organizer, I would ban a guy that acted like that from any future tournaments.

Wait, I thought Gonk was a once a turn action and you couldn't double dip

I cant stand those type of people who turn into assholes if they arent winning.

[snip]

The rest of the game though I was making sure every rule was followed to the T. When he had forgotten to place his evade token down I told him he wasnt allowed because we were past that point when against most players I would have allowed it.

You do realize that from a certain viewpoint this is incredibly ironic, right? He played you, sure (at least it seems that way, it could have been unintentional), but then you went full on a-hole? Wow.

I cant stand those type of people who turn into assholes if they arent winning.

[snip]

The rest of the game though I was making sure every rule was followed to the T. When he had forgotten to place his evade token down I told him he wasnt allowed because we were past that point when against most players I would have allowed it.

You do realize that from a certain viewpoint this is incredibly ironic, right? He played you, sure (at least it seems that way, it could have been unintentional), but then you went full on a-hole? Wow.

Ahhhh how do you even come to this conclusion??? Guy announces return fire, guy 2 says he will finish his 3rd pilots shot first. Guy says no worries as it's been a friendly tourney. Guy 2 fires 3rd ship, then proceeds to tell Guy that he missed his opportunity. This is all kinds of ****** up. This is intentional deceit and seriously bad for the game. Guy 1 then suits up and plays Guy 2's game of playing exactly as the rules are written. This is not bad, this is beating a player at their own game. Some people are socially awkward and need to win at any cost, these people need to be taught lessons.

You could have done the right thing, get the TO involved, get the guy a warning, get your shot and continue to fly in a friendly casual way. Instead you choose to let his blatant cheating go and stopped flying casual afterwards. The irony is dripping indeed. Bragging to beat a cheater in his own game is indeed pure irony.

The worst part is that if your opponent does it again and the next player calls the TO there will be most likely just a warning and not the rightfully deserved disqualification.

Fly casual is just the applied wheaton's law to x-wing.

You could have done the right thing, get the TO involved, get the guy a warning, get your shot and continue to fly in a friendly casual way. Instead you choose to let his blatant cheating go and stopped flying casual afterwards. The irony is dripping indeed. Bragging to beat a cheater in his own game is indeed pure irony.

The worst part is that if your opponent does it again and the next player calls the TO there will be most likely just a warning and not the rightfully deserved disqualification.

Fly casual is just the applied wheaton's law to x-wing.

Have you even read the original post? He did call the TO, and he lost the ruling, exactly because he were flying casual, letting the opponent take the third shot out of turn. If he keeps flying casual, than the cheater will take advantage on him again.

Wait, I thought Gonk was a once a turn action and you couldn't double dip

There are two different actions listed on the card. You can do them both in one turn because they're different actions. Using Experimental Interface seems the best.

For a while the only word on the matter was an email from FFG saying you couldn't, but a couple of FAQs back they made it clear that you can now

FAQ:

I cant stand those type of people who turn into assholes if they arent winning.

[snip]

The rest of the game though I was making sure every rule was followed to the T. When he had forgotten to place his evade token down I told him he wasnt allowed because we were past that point when against most players I would have allowed it.

You do realize that from a certain viewpoint this is incredibly ironic, right? He played you, sure (at least it seems that way, it could have been unintentional), but then you went full on a-hole? Wow.

I cant stand those type of people who turn into assholes if they arent winning.

[snip]

The rest of the game though I was making sure every rule was followed to the T. When he had forgotten to place his evade token down I told him he wasnt allowed because we were past that point when against most players I would have allowed it.

You do realize that from a certain viewpoint this is incredibly ironic, right? He played you, sure (at least it seems that way, it could have been unintentional), but then you went full on a-hole? Wow.

Ahhhh how do you even come to this conclusion??? Guy announces return fire, guy 2 says he will finish his 3rd pilots shot first. Guy says no worries as it's been a friendly tourney. Guy 2 fires 3rd ship, then proceeds to tell Guy that he missed his opportunity. This is all kinds of ****** up. This is intentional deceit and seriously bad for the game. Guy 1 then suits up and plays Guy 2's game of playing exactly as the rules are written. This is not bad, this is beating a player at their own game. Some people are socially awkward and need to win at any cost, these people need to be taught lessons.

You could have done the right thing, get the TO involved, get the guy a warning, get your shot and continue to fly in a friendly casual way. Instead you choose to let his blatant cheating go and stopped flying casual afterwards. The irony is dripping indeed. Bragging to beat a cheater in his own game is indeed pure irony.

The worst part is that if your opponent does it again and the next player calls the TO there will be most likely just a warning and not the rightfully deserved disqualification.

Fly casual is just the applied wheaton's law to x-wing.

Was already pointed out that he did call a TO and it was a bad situation, but it certianly SOUNDS like the guy was purposely trying (and succeeded in this case) to play him. And from the story we were given, he didn't cheat at all to beat the guy at his game, he just held him to the rules instead of letting him take back missed opportunities. And i imagine a lot of people will do the same thing. I'm perfectly happy to let people take back minor opportunities, such as forgetting to put out a focus token before moving on the the next ship or something as long as nothing significant has happened in the meantime.

But if an opponent is going to call me on every little thing (or even more, deliberately engineer something), you can be **** sure I'll return the favor.

I cant stand those type of people who turn into assholes if they arent winning.

[snip]

The rest of the game though I was making sure every rule was followed to the T. When he had forgotten to place his evade token down I told him he wasnt allowed because we were past that point when against most players I would have allowed it.

You do realize that from a certain viewpoint this is incredibly ironic, right? He played you, sure (at least it seems that way, it could have been unintentional), but then you went full on a-hole? Wow.

I cant stand those type of people who turn into assholes if they arent winning.

[snip]

The rest of the game though I was making sure every rule was followed to the T. When he had forgotten to place his evade token down I told him he wasnt allowed because we were past that point when against most players I would have allowed it.

You do realize that from a certain viewpoint this is incredibly ironic, right? He played you, sure (at least it seems that way, it could have been unintentional), but then you went full on a-hole? Wow.

Ahhhh how do you even come to this conclusion??? Guy announces return fire, guy 2 says he will finish his 3rd pilots shot first. Guy says no worries as it's been a friendly tourney. Guy 2 fires 3rd ship, then proceeds to tell Guy that he missed his opportunity. This is all kinds of ****** up. This is intentional deceit and seriously bad for the game. Guy 1 then suits up and plays Guy 2's game of playing exactly as the rules are written. This is not bad, this is beating a player at their own game. Some people are socially awkward and need to win at any cost, these people need to be taught lessons.

You could have done the right thing, get the TO involved, get the guy a warning, get your shot and continue to fly in a friendly casual way. Instead you choose to let his blatant cheating go and stopped flying casual afterwards. The irony is dripping indeed. Bragging to beat a cheater in his own game is indeed pure irony.

The worst part is that if your opponent does it again and the next player calls the TO there will be most likely just a warning and not the rightfully deserved disqualification.

Fly casual is just the applied wheaton's law to x-wing.

Was already pointed out that he did call a TO and it was a bad situation, but it certianly SOUNDS like the guy was purposely trying (and succeeded in this case) to play him. And from the story we were given, he didn't cheat at all to beat the guy at his game, he just held him to the rules instead of letting him take back missed opportunities. And i imagine a lot of people will do the same thing. I'm perfectly happy to let people take back minor opportunities, such as forgetting to put out a focus token before moving on the the next ship or something as long as nothing significant has happened in the meantime.

But if an opponent is going to call me on every little thing (or even more, deliberately engineer something), you can be **** sure I'll return the favor.

This is exactly my point what Vander is saying. The person that **** his 3rd ship didn't cheat. Most of what he did was legit, the major issue was that the OP said he was going to shoot Dengar, allowed the opponent to shoot his 3rd ship to speed things up I am guessing. Then the opponent pulls a **** move and does not allow him his shot, which for some reason the TO complies with. If someone is going to be deceitful like this, then they better play within the exact guidelines as they wont get an inch from me after pulling a **** move **** stunt like that. I am glad he lost and I am glad he went down 0-4. that tells me enough of the kind of player he is.

I cant stand those type of people who turn into assholes if they arent winning.

[snip]

The rest of the game though I was making sure every rule was followed to the T. When he had forgotten to place his evade token down I told him he wasnt allowed because we were past that point when against most players I would have allowed it.

You do realize that from a certain viewpoint this is incredibly ironic, right? He played you, sure (at least it seems that way, it could have been unintentional), but then you went full on a-hole? Wow.

I cant stand those type of people who turn into assholes if they arent winning.

[snip]

The rest of the game though I was making sure every rule was followed to the T. When he had forgotten to place his evade token down I told him he wasnt allowed because we were past that point when against most players I would have allowed it.

You do realize that from a certain viewpoint this is incredibly ironic, right? He played you, sure (at least it seems that way, it could have been unintentional), but then you went full on a-hole? Wow.

Ahhhh how do you even come to this conclusion??? Guy announces return fire, guy 2 says he will finish his 3rd pilots shot first. Guy says no worries as it's been a friendly tourney. Guy 2 fires 3rd ship, then proceeds to tell Guy that he missed his opportunity. This is all kinds of ****** up. This is intentional deceit and seriously bad for the game. Guy 1 then suits up and plays Guy 2's game of playing exactly as the rules are written. This is not bad, this is beating a player at their own game. Some people are socially awkward and need to win at any cost, these people need to be taught lessons.

You could have done the right thing, get the TO involved, get the guy a warning, get your shot and continue to fly in a friendly casual way. Instead you choose to let his blatant cheating go and stopped flying casual afterwards. The irony is dripping indeed. Bragging to beat a cheater in his own game is indeed pure irony.

The worst part is that if your opponent does it again and the next player calls the TO there will be most likely just a warning and not the rightfully deserved disqualification.

Fly casual is just the applied wheaton's law to x-wing.

Was already pointed out that he did call a TO and it was a bad situation, but it certianly SOUNDS like the guy was purposely trying (and succeeded in this case) to play him. And from the story we were given, he didn't cheat at all to beat the guy at his game, he just held him to the rules instead of letting him take back missed opportunities. And i imagine a lot of people will do the same thing. I'm perfectly happy to let people take back minor opportunities, such as forgetting to put out a focus token before moving on the the next ship or something as long as nothing significant has happened in the meantime.

But if an opponent is going to call me on every little thing (or even more, deliberately engineer something), you can be **** sure I'll return the favor.

This is exactly my point what Vander is saying. The person that **** his 3rd ship didn't cheat. Most of what he did was legit, the major issue was that the OP said he was going to shoot Dengar, allowed the opponent to shoot his 3rd ship to speed things up I am guessing. Then the opponent pulls a **** move and does not allow him his shot, which for some reason the TO complies with. If someone is going to be deceitful like this, then they better play within the exact guidelines as they wont get an inch from me after pulling a **** move **** stunt like that. I am glad he lost and I am glad he went down 0-4. that tells me enough of the kind of player he is.

Wow, all kinds of hate here. Was the guy being deceitful? Without being there and only having one side of the story, it's actually quite hard to judge. Allowing the opponent to move onto the 3rd ship before taking his return attack was this guy's big mistake. And his opponent seized the moment and capitalized on it.

Was it within the rules? The TO seemed to think so, because technically it was, so yes, he was playing within the rules. To rule otherwise would have been wrong and set bad precedent for the rest of the tournament. The TO made the right call and he's not at fault in any way.

Was it bad sportsmanship? Maybe, but once again, without being there and witnessing the event, it's hard to judge. And remember, we only have one side of this story. Insisting it was a missed opportunity was definitely in the opponent's best interest, but if he deliberately mislead the guy to believe that he would still get his Dengar return attack, then that's about as unsporting as it gets.

It doesn't matter if you're playing a game at home or playing in the Worlds, if you both play by the rules, you should have a fair and enjoyable game every time. Sometimes the "fly casual" attitude can ruin a game if you're too casual, and this scenario was a prime example of that. Sure, if a player forgets to place a focus or evade token before moving onto the next ship, I'd allow him to do so once or twice, but I'd also tell him to remember it next time as it's a missed opportunity. You only have to do that once or twice and the player remembers after that, and it's no longer a problem.

I think mistakes were made by both players. One player acting out of desperation, and one acting out of spite. But everyone is quick to chastise the desperate player for playing within the rules, and forgive the guy that was playing too casually and allowed himself to be suckered. It's obvious that neither player enjoyed that game. But they both had a hand in what transpired.