Anyone else feel like vector thrusters is the t-65 fix we have been looking for? the x-wing already has some really solid pilots and now with the option of barrel roll or IA I feel like we are in a good place.

Wes, Biggs, Wedge, and even Hobbie all are pretty solid options. Sorry, the Rebel Alliance only consists of elite pilots. The rest of them died at Yavin.

You know, I'm very keen on Vectored Thrusters. Flavourwise, I mean, not performance wise.

Do we really want a game where X-Wings barrel roll? Doesn't that kinda spoil the flavour - TIEs are all nimble and barrel rolly, X-Wings aren't. There'll be a modification that increases a 2-attack dice ship's primary attack by 1 next!

Not that I'm going to stop putting them on my ARCs, of course.

Expert Handling should reflect that skill to barrel with X-Wings, back then when X-Wing was released. So why shouldn't it be 'flavorful' to have them performing barrels?

Because a) it's an EPT so only the best pilots can do it, and b) it causes them stress. This reflects the flavoury difference, while VT's just let you do it.

You know, I'm very keen on Vectored Thrusters. Flavourwise, I mean, not performance wise.

Do we really want a game where X-Wings barrel roll? Doesn't that kinda spoil the flavour - TIEs are all nimble and barrel rolly, X-Wings aren't. There'll be a modification that increases a 2-attack dice ship's primary attack by 1 next!

Not that I'm going to stop putting them on my ARCs, of course.

Expert Handling should reflect that skill to barrel with X-Wings, back then when X-Wing was released. So why shouldn't it be 'flavorful' to have them performing barrels?

Because a) it's an EPT so only the best pilots can do it, and b) it causes them stress. This reflects the flavoury difference, while VT's just let you do it.

But nobody uses it because of stress. What if the vectored thrusters would instead be an astromech that add the barrel action for 2 points?

​I'm really glad some of you are not the designers of this game.

Statements like this are not necessary.

I am disappoint.

This was the perfect opportunity for a whole series of recursive quoted posts about how each statement above is not necessary or helpful.

I am sorry that I failed to entertain you.

You know, I'm very keen on Vectored Thrusters. Flavourwise, I mean, not performance wise.

Do we really want a game where X-Wings barrel roll? Doesn't that kinda spoil the flavour - TIEs are all nimble and barrel rolly, X-Wings aren't. There'll be a modification that increases a 2-attack dice ship's primary attack by 1 next!

Not that I'm going to stop putting them on my ARCs, of course.

Expert Handling should reflect that skill to barrel with X-Wings, back then when X-Wing was released. So why shouldn't it be 'flavorful' to have them performing barrels?

Because a) it's an EPT so only the best pilots can do it, and b) it causes them stress. This reflects the flavoury difference, while VT's just let you do it.

But nobody uses it because of stress. What if the vectored thrusters would instead be an astromech that add the barrel action for 2 points?

at 1 point, you'd be so close to a b-wing i.t.o effectiveness

Bah, I don't dislike PTL+R2+Vectored Thursters. I don't care if it cost me regen.

If only I would have Cobra with 2 hard green..

I feel that the T-65 will need to have 2 Illicit slots, an extra Torpedo slot, a System slot and a Boost icon before people can even say it is close to fixed.

if u compare it to the jump master it needs more than that.

You know, I'm very keen on Vectored Thrusters. Flavourwise, I mean, not performance wise.

Do we really want a game where X-Wings barrel roll? Doesn't that kinda spoil the flavour - TIEs are all nimble and barrel rolly, X-Wings aren't. There'll be a modification that increases a 2-attack dice ship's primary attack by 1 next!

Not that I'm going to stop putting them on my ARCs, of course.

Expert Handling should reflect that skill to barrel with X-Wings, back then when X-Wing was released. So why shouldn't it be 'flavorful' to have them performing barrels?

Because a) it's an EPT so only the best pilots can do it, and b) it causes them stress. This reflects the flavoury difference, while VT's just let you do it.

But nobody uses it because of stress. What if the vectored thrusters would instead be an astromech that add the barrel action for 2 points?

Well yeah, that's a performance argument, like I said its the flavour that I don't like - lots of barrel rolling X-Wings would spoil the flavour, in my opinion.

I wonder if there is something else I could use those four points for in my ARCs list...

Porkins. He is discounted by 2 points relative to most of the X-wing pilots on the PS scale (except Luke and Wedge, who are discounted by 1). I was messing around with him with R5-D8 and PTL, assuming I needed to go with IA in the mod slot. Then I tried him with Vectored Thrusters instead. Suddenly he's a good workhorse who can put out solid damage, reposition, take actions after reds and limp away to regenerate hull when necessary. I came in second place in a 10-man 3-round casual tournament yesterday with him, TA Hobbie, and Stressbot Tactician Braylen.

VT is a strong option for the right T-65 man. And Porkins is that man.

You know, I'm very keen on Vectored Thrusters. Flavourwise, I mean, not performance wise.

Do we really want a game where X-Wings barrel roll? Doesn't that kinda spoil the flavour - TIEs are all nimble and barrel rolly, X-Wings aren't. There'll be a modification that increases a 2-attack dice ship's primary attack by 1 next!

I agree, I don't want my X-wings to fly like TIE fighters; I don't want all my ships to be similar; diversity is great!

The fix was issued in IA and I just don't see FFG providing another one. I mean, there is Biggs and Wedge which set the glass ceiling on the ship; and we had the IA card for the T-65, then a T-70 (upgraded from the cannon T-65), and then the Hero's recent issue of a bit of newness to the T-70. Even with all the whining about the T-65 not being on par with the top ships of the game, I cannot see another bump. I do think however, top eight tournament squads with at least 1 X-Wing in their team probably equals squads with an original TIE in their numbers...I'd un-educationally wager anyway.

It seems like that ship has sailed.

VT is a nice upgrade for a PTL wedge with r2 astro IMO. Haven't found it terribly useful on the other pilots, especially since you have to not only give up IA but pay 2 extra points to do so.

You know, I'm not very keen on Vectored Thrusters. Flavourwise, I mean, not performance wise.

Do we really want a game where X-Wings barrel roll? Doesn't that kinda spoil the flavour - TIEs are all nimble and barrel rolly, X-Wings aren't. There'll be a modification that increases a 2-attack dice ship's primary attack by 1 next!

Not that I'm going to stop putting them on my ARCs, of course.

Edit: I think people realised, given their replies, but there was supposed to be a "not" in there, before "very keen"!

Agreed. Barrel Roll is not the fix. The issue is the dial: Y-wing, Z-wing, Arc, and X-wing all have the same dial. (Minus red/green). Why would the "newer" x-wing have the same base maneuvers as the older models? The Y wing is a bomber, it does not make sense to have and X-wing move like a bomber.

Well...dial and cost.

I feel that the T-65 will need to have 2 Illicit slots, an extra Torpedo slot, a System slot and a Boost icon before people can even say it is close to fixed.

if u compare it to the jump master it needs more than that.

VTs are a ywing fix more than xwing. y's tend to not have a mod anyway since theyre bad ordnance boats. That barrelroll is a godsend for them

Y-wing, Z-wing, Arc, and X-wing all have the same dial

You mean the Z-95?

I feel that the T-65 will need to have 2 Illicit slots, an extra Torpedo slot, a System slot and a Boost icon before people can even say it is close to fixed.

if u compare it to the jump master it needs more than that.

If you compair any ship to the Jumpmaster, they all need more than what they have.

I've added boldness to your text and sized it up because this point cannot be made enough. The Jumpmaster is a ship that made it through play-testing, I can assume, only because some group of play testers had a raging collective hard-on for Scum and knew the problems this ship would cause, but wanted it anyway. No reasonable play test group should, or could, have allowed that abomination to make it to the full game.

However, I did not correct your misspelling of 'compare.'

We need a unique t-65 x-wing title

"One in a million" 0pt

When attacking with a proton torpedo you may change all attack dice to crits.

Powerful and thematic - fixed!

You must add "After using this ability, you are never allowed to use it in another X-Wing game as long as you live."

I think that something along the lines of the /x7 Defender title for the X-wing would be ideal. Like the pre-fix Defender, the X-wing is a jouster that is hampered by low points-efficiency and poor action economy.

I would prefer a Title to a modification so as not to conflict with IA. Also I would like it to be balanced but not overpowered, particularly on the (numerous) named pilots. Any fix would need to be useful while avoiding any inadvertent overpowering of existing pilots.

even if you gave the X a double EPT or double Mod slot upgrade... then your still increasing the cost of the X-Wing. Most people seem to think it's primarily a cost issue making the X-wing so "needz fix now!"

but really... the pilot abilities are what make the X-Wing wicked. Look how many people still talk Biggs, Tarn, Wedge, Wes. Thats 3 more pilots than many other ships see on the field regularly...

We need a unique t-65 x-wing title

"One in a million" 0pt

When attacking with a proton torpedo you may change all attack dice to crits.

Powerful and thematic - fixed!

You must add "After using this ability, you are never allowed to use it in another X-Wing game as long as you live."

What if you play more than a million matches?

We need a unique t-65 x-wing title

"One in a million" 0pt

When attacking with a proton torpedo you may change all attack dice to crits.

Powerful and thematic - fixed!

You must add "After using this ability, you are never allowed to use it in another X-Wing game as long as you live."

I mean, if we're perfectly honest, this wouldn't even fix the T-65. X-wings can only take one proton torp, and with the title being unique it's just a tiny alpha strike. It's not that hard to get 4 hits with ordnance in the first place if you've got a focus+Guidance Chips.

A-Wing underperforms, A-Wing gets a fix, everyone is happy

Interceptor underperforms, Interceptor gets a fix, everyone is happy

Defender underperforms, Defender gets TIE MKII, it's not a fix so people are unhappy. It then gets a fix.

T-65 underperforms, and people are determined that it is fine, and that 'vectored thrusters' or 'intergrated astromech' fixed it. Well gee whiz I'm glad all those list juggler statistics were wrong, the Math Wing calculations worthless, and the words of the designers themselves moot.

A rando on the internet said the T-65 was fine! I guess we can all go home now!

At this point I've reached the acceptance stage. My "fix" is now this:

1) Take T-70 card/tile

2) Place peg on base

3) Place T-65 mini on peg

In all seriousness, IA helped, but I feel like the mere existence and pricing of the T-70 is an admission that the T-65 is showing the result of being one of the very first ships designed. Seriously, 3 points for a shield, boost, and t-rolls? I would like some kind of further fix for the ship, but until then I will just keep using Biggs with my ARCs or some T-70s.

Maybe the T-70 is the T-65 fix???????

Seriously, 3 points for a shield, boost, and t-rolls?

And a tech slot