Hi all,

Yesterday at local store I faced high agil / PS and mobile scum ships (fenn rau, Kad Solus , and boba fett). Fenn and Kad were really hard to maintain in arc (I had whisper vessery and inquisitor not great build)

I wanted to use the below to have a better control, but I would have to drop agent kellus.

Against enemies as yesterday do you think it make any sense ?

imp 3 ships (98)

"Whisper" (39) - TIE Phantom

Veteran Instincts (1), Fire Control System (2), Advanced Cloaking Device (4)

Delta Squadron Pilot (33) - TIE Defender

TIE/D (0), Ion Cannon (3)

"Omega Leader" (26) - TIE/FO Fighter

Juke (2), Comm Relay (3)

I'm starting the game thanks for your help

That delta cant modify both attacks. Also, blocking is your friend. You can try this, Ive liked this list a lot:

Whisper

VI

FCS

ACD

GUNNER

44pts

Vessery

VI

ION CANNON

TIE xD

39pts

Epsilon Sqd

15pts

2pt init bid

Beat brobots, a Dengar/Bossk list, and an Inquisitor/Vessery/Omega Leader list so far with it. Some tough lists. Didnt lose a ship in the latter. Whisper+Gunner is just nasty to those tokened up ships like Inquisitor.

Gunner Whisper is a beautiful thing when you kill a ship and switch targets. Whiff the first roll and get a full modded second shot, plus auto setup Vessery. Both whisper and vess get double shots to strip tokened up ships. Epsilon is your blocker, and can be another TL friend for Vess. Eps can block scouts, block a swarm and bump them all preventing their tokens. Control dengars arc. Prevent Brobots from slooping. He puts in his work where a third ace cant.

Thanks it looks really smart and efficient !

I need to practice blocking now ;-)

That delta cant modify both attacks. Also, blocking is your friend. You can try this, Ive liked this list a lot:

Whisper

VI

FCS

ACD

GUNNER

44pts

Vessery

VI

ION CANNON

TIE xD

39pts

Epsilon Sqd

15pts

2pt init bid

Beat brobots, a Dengar/Bossk list, and an Inquisitor/Vessery/Omega Leader list so far with it. Some tough lists. Didnt lose a ship in the latter. Whisper+Gunner is just nasty to those tokened up ships like Inquisitor.

Gunner Whisper is a beautiful thing when you kill a ship and switch targets. Whiff the first roll and get a full modded second shot, plus auto setup Vessery. Both whisper and vess get double shots to strip tokened up ships. Epsilon is your blocker, and can be another TL friend for Vess. Eps can block scouts, block a swarm and bump them all preventing their tokens. Control dengars arc. Prevent Brobots from slooping. He puts in his work where a third ace cant.

This is a decent list, however, I think it can be even more efficient, since the Epsilon, while not terrible, doesn't match the Seinar Test pilot.

Also, while I really like Gunner on Whisper, I feel Rebel Captive is a really good card in the currently evolving meta.

Here is my version:

Whisper w/ VI, FCS, rebel captive & ACD = 42

Vessery w/ crack shot, ion cannon & TIE/D = 39

Seinar Test Pilot w/ V-1 title = 17

98

The last two points can be left for an initiative bid, or you could spend another point to get TIE mk 2 engines on Vessery, or spend both remaining points to put autothrusters on the TAP. Either way, Vessery w/ ion cannon, TIE/D + crack shot is about as scary a ship as you can get. Your opponent will definitely try to kill him first, so using the TAP as blocker can help protect him a bit, as can baiting with whisper (but be careful! You don't want to lose Whisper!)

Thanks. I really like the TAP idea all the more since I have it in my small collection, however I'm reluctant to drop gunner. It seems like a good trick to maximise whisper's offence and not too difficult to use .

So I was thinking to just remove VI from Vessery on wurms's list and switch epsilon to seinar with V1 title .

It makes 99 pts, still viable for initiative .

What do u think ? Clearly Vessery will need protection .

is it really necessary to take fire control system and gunner?

is it really necessary to take fire control system and gunner?

I would say yes because it gives you a powerful second shot (with Target Lock), and potentially you might have removed a few tokens or shields with the first shot...

is it really necessary to take fire control system and gunner?

I would say yes because it gives you a powerful second shot (with Target Lock), and potentially you might have removed a few tokens or shields with the first shot...

but if you cut FCS for just the collision detector you could not use the defender as the low ps ship and could change the 3rd ship to someone like zeta ace.

is it really necessary to take fire control system and gunner?

I would say yes because it gives you a powerful second shot (with Target Lock), and potentially you might have removed a few tokens or shields with the first shot...

but if you cut FCS for just the collision detector you could not use the defender as the low ps ship and could change the 3rd ship to someone like zeta ace.

"Whisper" — TIE Phantom 32

Veteran Instincts 1

Collision Detector 0

Gunner 5

Advanced Cloaking Device 4

Ship Total: 42

Colonel Vessery — TIE Defender 35

Veteran Instincts 1

Ion Cannon 3

TIE/D 0

Ship Total: 39

"Zeta Ace" — TIE/fo Fighter 18

Adapability 0

Ship Total: 18

this way you get to keep gunner and VI on the aces have a 4/6 ps blocker who can arc dodge with his range 2 barrel roll and its still 99 points for the initiative bid.

This is a really bad idea.

FCS + Gunner is the whole point of taking Gunner. Its an incredible combo. Having said that, its not necessarily better than rebel captive. I find rebel captive to be useful in every single match; whereas there are some matchups where Gunner is pointless (like against rebels that fly 0 or 1 agility ships).

FCS should not be dropped under any circumstances, however. Vessery absolutely depends on that target lock (yes a third ship can get the TL sometimes, but that FCS makes it so much easier to manage). Like, infinitely easier!

This is a really bad idea.

FCS + Gunner is the whole point of taking Gunner. Its an incredible combo. Having said that, its not necessarily better than rebel captive. I find rebel captive to be useful in every single match; whereas there are some matchups where Gunner is pointless (like against rebels that fly 0 or 1 agility ships).

FCS should not be dropped under any circumstances, however. Vessery absolutely depends on that target lock (yes a third ship can get the TL sometimes, but that FCS makes it so much easier to manage). Like, infinitely easier!

i mostly selected vessery so that zeta ace wouldnt be a ps 1 academy FO. could just as easily have been the brath with adaptability instead for 100 points. in which case the target lock ends synergy is moot. that way makes you lose your bid for initiative tho. (i have no idea if thats actually important tho)

i dont play with the phantom much and when i do i take echo because i prefer the bank decloak. so i dunno whats good on the whisper version.

see this is how i phantom

"Echo" — TIE Phantom 30

Juke 2

Collision Detector 0

Gunner 5

Stygium Particle Accelerator 2

Ship Total: 39

Well, you could give FCS a try and see why its really good with gunner!

Honestly though, you should really put Advanced Cloaking Device on Echo. Yes the evade token is nice from SPA, but the whole point of Echo is his incredible decloak move. If you aren't doing it every single turn, then you aren't really using him to his full potential, imho.

"Echo" — TIE Phantom 30

Juke 2

Collision Detector 0

Gunner 5

Stygium Particle Accelerator 2

Ship Total: 39

Well, you could give FCS a try and see why its really good with gunner!

Honestly though, you should really put Advanced Cloaking Device on Echo. Yes the evade token is nice from SPA, but the whole point of Echo is his incredible decloak move. If you aren't doing it every single turn, then you aren't really using him to his full potential, imho.

It's also my opinion. I have second thought on dropping VI from Vessery.... He kind of needs to hit among the firsts since he will be focused

"Echo" — TIE Phantom 30

Juke 2

Collision Detector 0

Gunner 5

Stygium Particle Accelerator 2

Ship Total: 39

Well, you could give FCS a try and see why its really good with gunner!

Honestly though, you should really put Advanced Cloaking Device on Echo. Yes the evade token is nice from SPA, but the whole point of Echo is his incredible decloak move. If you aren't doing it every single turn, then you aren't really using him to his full potential, imho.

It's also my opinion. I have second thought on dropping VI from Vessery.... He kind of needs to hit among the firsts since he will be focused

Not true. Defenders are very good at lining up shots on higher PS ships once you learn how to use them (surprisingly more difficult than one might think). However, there is one reason to take Veteran Instincts on Vessery: Dash. He's so maneuverable, he can run circles around anything of lower Pilot Skill. So if you see him a lot, then yeah, VI makes total sense on Vessery. Otherwise he can do fine without.

Ok I see. Thanks a lot for your advice. Last games I did was against scums with high PS and high mobility as well so could have been useful to hit first

I would recommend sticking with Gunner and FCS - there are so many lists good at avoiding even modified 4 dice shots (thanks to JumpMaster practice...), AND we're going to see more of the token-heavy aces, I think, when Spyshoka drops.

And it's even insurance against blanking out vs a VCX.

Reb Cap is decent, but most folks know how to plan for the stress now. You want to be Cloaked as much as humanly possible, and Buzzsaw Whisper is the way to do it.

I was initially doing Double Ion Cannon Vessery and Maarek. Vess with adapt, and Maarek with Predator. Two PS7 xDs w/ Hull Upgrade and the Epsilon. I went 7-2 with this list, and the only problems I had was VI Brobots and Trip Aces. I needed higher PS but keep my double taps (cause I freakin love double taps!). Maarek with Ion Cannon + Hull + Predator is the exact same amount as Whisper Gunner. Worked out perfect.

Whispers ability to trigger is critical to his survival. True, Gunner could be wasted when flying against Arcs and VCX lists, but it is a godsend going against Brobots and Palp Aces and x7 Defenders, then getting a full modded shot. Stripping those tokens. Not too mention that time when you are firing on the VCX and get eye,blank,blank,blank. Or, with Gunner + FCS combo, Whisper can take an evade action, whiff his first attack, then Gunner FCS for second attack to get evade + focus + 4 green die when you know an HLC shot is coming back at ya.

VI on Vessery with xD I now prefer because with whisper and initiative, Vessery will be shooting first, stripping tokens, so the enemy's return fire is weaker which is the Tie/xD titles defense, so to speak.

From my experience, versus the brobots match, my PS7 vessery was shot and killed and got no return fire on a low hull Brobot. Tie/xD want to shoot as much as possible, and Vessery lost out on two attacks there. x7 Defenders can survive longer to get their shots. xD's need as many shots as possible to get a return on investment.

Another positive on Whisper + Gunner is you have the advantage at the endgame in tournaments. There are no more modified wins, so your 44 whisper beats a 41 Kallus Whisper, or Rebel Captive Whisper. Basically any 1v1 small ship, you can play defensively and let them take the risks.

If you really want the Sienar Tap + Title, I probably would drop VI from Vess for Adaptability, and drop Ion Cannon down to Fletchette (still gets 1dmg through, and non PTL ships like VI Brobots will get stressed, preventing sloops/kturns,etc. And Defenders without MK.II will get f'd up as well. That keeps the 2pt initiative, and if you are flying against Dash, Whisper will fire first anyways, so give initiative to Dash, so Vessery has the ability to b-roll and get arc.

Another option is just drop Ion for tractor beam. Whisper doesnt take advantage, but Vessery and your TAP will. Making the tap actually viable in combat at range 2. Vessery would fire before ARCs able to toss them on rocks before firing. Dengaroo goes to 1 green die, which makes him much more manageable. Land it on an x7 Defender and toss them on a rock, no focus for them next turn! Whisper says HELLO!

Thanks again, great insights.

I think I really want to be able to rely on both Whisper and Vessery at high PS to shoot first, put those **** boosting ships to only 1 straight move with Ion Cannon (and also 1 dmg), so I'll stick to epsilon leader with this build (first one proposed by wurms) :

Whisper
VI
FCS
ACD
GUNNER
44pts

Vessery
VI
ION CANNON
TIE xD
39pts

Epsilon Sqd
15pts

But I will add primed thrusters to the Epsilon to give him more mobility.