Has anyone seen/heard anything about how many sets FFG plans on putting out per year? What's typical for their other products? The only FFG I "regularly" play is Imperial Assault, and that I only play Campaign, so I don't pay too much attention to release cycles, but the main reason I've stopped playing every other CCG (Magic, Dice Masters, and a few others) is because of the sheer number of sets they put out, and the expense of keeping current (Magic is 4+ HUGE sets a year, and Dice Masters is now a set every other Month, with OPs being released AFTER the set so if you only want to collect one (DC/Marvel/D&D) you have to play the next set too!).

Also, regarding OP, has anyone heard/seen anything beyond the pre-release? I'm not talking about drafts or anything like that, but OP kits specifically.

No and preorders for spring and summer kits are up.

I think it will be safe to say we should see at least two a year, with an upwards of four. More importantly what would concern me is, how fast is the power creep in the game? What percentage of new sets contain quality cards? How fast are cards becoming obsolete?

It really depends on the model they go with. Is Awakenings a standard sized set or a base set? If it is a base set, can we expect new releases to be approx half the size? What would that mean for rarity allocation? Will we continue to see starters packs in new sets?

Obviously the rate we get them also depends on the demand and how popular the game becomes. Magic has a huge number of sets because there is a demand for it and the game continues to grow, it really has done something special in the gaming world(despite the flaws).

They did announce organized play. There is an archived news article for that. As for frequency of releases, no one knows. This is their first collectable in recent history so theres nothing to base a guess on.

Magic can sustain its model because of draft/sealed play. 80-90+% of all new sets are completely unplayable in competitive constructed games. Those cards get used only in limited games (and around the kitchen table, but those players will just use whatever they have, so it doesn't much matter how good the cards are). So WotC can pump out 1000 cards a year, while really only adding about 100 to the metagame.

Destiny does not appear to be built with draft in mind. If there is no use for the "bad" cards, how long are people going to pay for them? I'd love to see 2 sets a year come out. That way we don't burn through the source material at a rapid clip, where in 3 years we've got the second version of BoShek as the headlining card. Sadly, I don't think the CCG model can support that. The metagame will be solved in a matter of 1-2 months, and players will get bored if it sits stagnant for too long, especially if there are degenerate decks because of the tiny initial card pool. Given that we haven't heard anything about a follow-up set yet, I think 4 sets per year is unlikely, as that next set would basically already have to be completely done. So maybe 3 per year? If they keep set sizes small, I could see myself keeping up with this game, even alongside other games.

I would prefer 4 sets a year but I can live with 3. 2 is too dry for me. As far as running out of source martial? not going to happen when you have the TV shows and the rest of canon. It would be a different story if we weren't getting as much content that we are every year.

I would prefer 4 sets a year but I can live with 3. 2 is too dry for me. As far as running out of source martial? not going to happen when you have the TV shows and the rest of canon. It would be a different story if we weren't getting as much content that we are every year.

It's not going to happen in one year, but Star Wars, unlike Magic, has a finite amount of material. If we want the game to last, then that material needs to be spaced out enough to allow it to last. If we accept that the game has a 4-5 year lifespan, then bring it on. Until we have 3 different Sio Bibbles. Then I'm done.

I would prefer 4 sets a year but I can live with 3. 2 is too dry for me. As far as running out of source martial? not going to happen when you have the TV shows and the rest of canon. It would be a different story if we weren't getting as much content that we are every year.

It's not going to happen in one year, but Star Wars, unlike Magic, has a finite amount of material. If we want the game to last, then that material needs to be spaced out enough to allow it to last. If we accept that the game has a 4-5 year lifespan, then bring it on. Until we have 3 different Sio Bibbles. Then I'm done.

What? Just imagine the ability to choose between Dexter Jettster - Jedi Informant or Dexter Jettster - Diner Owner or Dexter Jettster - Wise Old Cook?

Just take my money!!!!!!!

Magic can sustain its model because of draft/sealed play. 80-90+% of all new sets are completely unplayable in competitive constructed games. Those cards get used only in limited games (and around the kitchen table, but those players will just use whatever they have, so it doesn't much matter how good the cards are). So WotC can pump out 1000 cards a year, while really only adding about 100 to the metagame.

Destiny does not appear to be built with draft in mind. If there is no use for the "bad" cards, how long are people going to pay for them? I'd love to see 2 sets a year come out. That way we don't burn through the source material at a rapid clip, where in 3 years we've got the second version of BoShek as the headlining card. Sadly, I don't think the CCG model can support that. The metagame will be solved in a matter of 1-2 months, and players will get bored if it sits stagnant for too long, especially if there are degenerate decks because of the tiny initial card pool. Given that we haven't heard anything about a follow-up set yet, I think 4 sets per year is unlikely, as that next set would basically already have to be completely done. So maybe 3 per year? If they keep set sizes small, I could see myself keeping up with this game, even alongside other games.

Every game, not just CCGs has to contend with sustaining demand despite fairly low percentages of competitive level usage. X-wing handles in by including upgrades that sell ships regardless of if the ship is all that good. LCGs obviously just have an all or nothing buy the good with the bad mentality to it. If enough of set is good or the good is attractive to players the set will sell. But what's useful in competitive play isn't the only measure, as honestly most people won't be playing competitively. You can't tie demand into just that barometer. So honestly to answer the question of how long will people buy with only maybe a 5th or even less of the release being assimilated in competitive usage, awhile.

I doubt FFG is going to do 4 180 card sets within a year. They just don't create product that quickly as a company. Even the AGOT LCG 2.0, which has an absurd headstart in development considering they've been making AGOT for over a decade, is only going to see a bit over 400 cards in its first year. Even if they put more focus into Destiny, I just don't see FFG logistically being able to support creating and distributing more then 400-500 cards in a year, which would max it at 3ish sets or perhaps 1 large set and 3 smaller 100 card sets a year.

But I certainly don't think burning through content to be the issue there. FFG has opened them up to all current and future Star Wars content with Destiny. There is alot of Star Wars being created now, and as I said FFG just doesn't make content that quickly. More over there is going to be huge demand for reprints of characters to showcase then at different points in the story. Obviously we aren't talking about multiple versions of momentary minor characters, but you can print half a dozen versions of Luke before you are starting to even talk about overuse.

Additionally I think you are overestimating the rate at which the meta will be "solved" as well. MtG has professional players, professional content creators, and a prolific high level tournament scene. All three of those things mean that a new set can be quickly torn apart and their impact assessed. Destiny won't have any of those things. FFG doesn't even publish deck lists from major tournaments, at best they may do an article about the winner months after the fact. If the community doesn't self report you'd have no idea what the top cut of Gencon looked like. That will heavily curtail the ability to quickly solve the meta.

Sorry if that rambles a bit I started typing this morning but kept getting sidetracked.

I would think FFG has a handle on the meta game and stagnation. Look at the rapid changes that took place within Imperial Assault and the end of 4x4 lists. I feel fairly confident they wouldn't allow Destiny to devolve from the get go.

To the OP.

There's about zero chance that Destiny matches either MTG or DiceMasters in release pace. MTG is essentially the biggest game in the industry. It literally keeps some game store in business on its own. DiceMasters is made by Wizkids, WizKids only positive is that they make alot if "stuff". WizKid's has has a X-wing analog called Attack Wing. WizKids released Attack Wing after FFG released X-wing and yet Attack Wing is already on Wave 26, X-wing is on Wave 10. WizKids releases bad games so they try and spot out as much product to milk as much as they can of the game before people realize they bought into a lemon.

Destiny will, even if wildly succesful, not be as big as MTG. And FFG isn't Wizkids.

To the OP.

There's about zero chance that Destiny matches either MTG or DiceMasters in release pace. MTG is essentially the biggest game in the industry. It literally keeps some game store in business on its own. DiceMasters is made by Wizkids, WizKids only positive is that they make alot if "stuff". WizKid's has has a X-wing analog called Attack Wing. WizKids released Attack Wing after FFG released X-wing and yet Attack Wing is already on Wave 26, X-wing is on Wave 10. WizKids releases bad games so they try and spot out as much product to milk as much as they can of the game before people realize they bought into a lemon.

Destiny will, even if wildly succesful, not be as big as MTG. And FFG isn't Wizkids.

@Scottie ATF, I don't think I have ever disagreed with anything you have posted on these forums. Once again, spot on.

There is no chance of Destiny even coming close to Magic and probably nobody ever will. Magic is also going through a major change now as well. Kaladesh is probably the most beautiful card set I have ever seen in my life, but it has the community fairly divided on the future direction of the game.

There is a fine line for smaller games to walk. You can't unleash massive amounts of cards and turnover, but you need to keep the game from stagnating. For me personally, I just want a good game that hopefully I don't feel like I need to spend ridiculous amounts of money on. This game looks to be in a good place right now, with a decent sized first set, 2 card limit and a decent enough rarity system in place. The future is all speculation, but as mentioned above by Scottie, it is safe to assume what sort of pace or volume we can expect.

SPECULATION: We won't see another set for this game for at least 6 months after release. At that pace, we can probably expect a total of 2 more sets next year in addition to this years launch. Which wallet is fine with, as I plan to have full play sets.

I think for the most part, good FFG OP support helps the game grow.

I'd be fine with 2 maybe 3 releases per year, as long as we got reasonably regular OP kits. Currently that seems to be seasonal (4 per year) but it would be nice to get a monthly kit or something like that. I'm not expecting Friday Night Magic levels here, but a monthly kit with a promo card or a 3 monthly OP kit with acrylic tokens, dice bags, etc.... keeps the game interesting without new releases.

Obviously you have to make sure the meta doesn't get stale but OP kits certainly do add longevity to the game and means you don't need new releases as often.

I think for the most part, good FFG OP support helps the game grow.

I'd be fine with 2 maybe 3 releases per year, as long as we got reasonably regular OP kits. Currently that seems to be seasonal (4 per year) but it would be nice to get a monthly kit or something like that. I'm not expecting Friday Night Magic levels here, but a monthly kit with a promo card or a 3 monthly OP kit with acrylic tokens, dice bags, etc.... keeps the game interesting without new releases.

Obviously you have to make sure the meta doesn't get stale but OP kits certainly do add longevity to the game and means you don't need new releases as often.

By that I don't mean what they provide in the kits; game night, store championships, regionals, etc. I think they could do a better job of recognizing what would be an in demand promo, as they release some dud, but overall the kits aren't an issue. It's the organization aspect of organized play.

They are very hands off there is very little in the way of venue involvement or venue accountability. They rely on the community to do all of the organizing, and they don't do anything to give an incentive to do that organizing.

Also their coverage of their events is terrible.

Hopefully Destiny forces changes.

I think this is a game that is simple to play and hard to master. The game play seems to be quite deep, with the interactions of players, card and dice choice and play of the game all being very well crafted to provide a game that is won or lost on good choices being made through out the deck building and play of the game.

As such I think I would like to see 2-3 well crafted sets each year of 100 or so cards rather than 4 rushed sets. I also think this tends to play into the collector, too many large releases makes it way too hard to keep up and interest is lost.

Time spent collecting and money spent my knee jerk reaction I'd like 2 sets per year. But I could be wrong and 3 might be the sweet spot

2 is too few IMO, the game will stagnate if we only see one new set every 6 months. 3 is my prefered option but I"d go for 4 too

Is everyone looking at the cost as well as the size when picking their number?

The core set from just buying product costs about $700.00 to compile with the averages that have been talking about previously. This number adds up fast if the game is rolling out equal sized expansions too quickly and would probably hurt the game. Without a doubt, having 4 sets in the next year would be bad for a new game. Maybe down the road, maybe smaller sized sets, but not right now.

Also, the game doesn't have the structure for something like that out of the gates anyways and nor does FFG. CCGs are a whole other beast and I am excited for them to have a game of this quality coming out. But let us tread carefully with it's development and expansion.

I just don't think FFG is good at providing OP support.

By that I don't mean what they provide in the kits; game night, store championships, regionals, etc. I think they could do a better job of recognizing what would be an in demand promo, as they release some dud, but overall the kits aren't an issue. It's the organization aspect of organized play.

They are very hands off there is very little in the way of venue involvement or venue accountability. They rely on the community to do all of the organizing, and they don't do anything to give an incentive to do that organizing.

Also their coverage of their events is terrible.

Hopefully Destiny forces changes.

There's certainly room for improvement. The IA kits have been pretty good recently as they've been releasing promo cards that have had FAQ changes which is a nice way to get re-prints out to players.

Their tournament guidelines and "how to run" documents are pretty good, but I agree that a bit more hands on would be nicer.

Then again, I'm in Australia so we always get a drop in a bucket as far as support goes.

I play a lot of tabletop games too and those guys have terrible community support in general (I'm looking at you GW), so stuff like FFG OP support is a welcome change for me.

Tournament kits, even if it's just a promo or a coin is what gets me playing the game regularly. If you don't have close friends who play as much as you do, it can be very hard to find games, especially in smaller communities (eg. Australia) so the OP tournaments are a great way to just play some games.

X-wing is at a stage now where there's enough people playing it that it's easy to self sustain (Nationals was 126 players). I can usually find a game any given day at any game store in the city with very little effort. Magic is probably the only other game where that is true. Maybe some warhammer/40k if you go to a venue that's heavily focused on those.

Ultimately the game is only good if people start and keep playing it. "Keep" being the operative word. Releasing new content constantly is important, but it's a fine line between not enough and too much.

I hear Doomtown basically imploded because they released so many kits too quickly and the buy in for a new player was immense.

I'm interested in what you think is good OP support if you think FFG is bad at it.

Apart from a little bit of Magic, I've never played anything else that was big enough and had good enough OP support.

The core set from just buying product costs about $700.00 to compile with the averages that have been talking about previously.

Sure if you are looking for a playset of every card but that isn't necessary to play the game or collect cards from a new set. This is a CCG, you don't need playsets. That being said $700 is nothing IMO for a playset, I used to spend $700 on magic or wow tcg and wouldn't even come close to a playset, hell sometimes that wouldn't even get me a full set.

Also, the game doesn't have the structure for something like that out of the gates anyways and nor does FFG. CCGs are a whole other beast and I am excited for them to have a game of this quality coming out. But let us tread carefully with it's development and expansion.

FFG is one of the largest board game publishers in the world, and have had multiple CCGs going in the past. I've got faith they will have no problem with anything regarding this game.

I would prefer 4 sets a year but I can live with 3. 2 is too dry for me. As far as running out of source martial? not going to happen when you have the TV shows and the rest of canon. It would be a different story if we weren't getting as much content that we are every year.

It's not going to happen in one year, but Star Wars, unlike Magic, has a finite amount of material. If we want the game to last, then that material needs to be spaced out enough to allow it to last. If we accept that the game has a 4-5 year lifespan, then bring it on. Until we have 3 different Sio Bibbles. Then I'm done.

I think you are under estimating how much we have right now and the fact that you have new star wars stuff coming out quite regularly (I'm talking books, comics, games, tv, movies, etc). More then enough to feed the game, assuming FFG goes the canon route and draw from it.

I would prefer 4 sets a year but I can live with 3. 2 is too dry for me. As far as running out of source martial? not going to happen when you have the TV shows and the rest of canon. It would be a different story if we weren't getting as much content that we are every year.

It's not going to happen in one year, but Star Wars, unlike Magic, has a finite amount of material. If we want the game to last, then that material needs to be spaced out enough to allow it to last. If we accept that the game has a 4-5 year lifespan, then bring it on. Until we have 3 different Sio Bibbles. Then I'm done.

I think you are under estimating how much we have right now and the fact that you have new star wars stuff coming out quite regularly (I'm talking books, comics, games, tv, movies, etc). More then enough to feed the game, assuming FFG goes the canon route and draw from it.

I think the point Runnestrand is trying to make is that yes we all know Star Wars has a lot, but it will run out eventually because you need good selling points. The main characters are the selling points. As much as people like Rebels, Rogue One or The Clone Wars, these are not the selling points of Star Wars. The OT is the biggest seller.

On the other hand, Magic's only limitation is their minds, where for Star Wars, this stuff has a lot of red tape on what can or can't be done. Everything must be approved outside of FFG in order to have it part of their product. So if we get 3 or 4(or more) sets/products a year, we are going to be having alternate versions of characters nobody likes or wants to play with because each set can't just rehash the characters we already have. Plus that sort of power creep would be bad for the game.

This game will definitely be sticking with canon at this point. There is zero reason to believe it will deviate from that.

I would prefer 4 sets a year but I can live with 3. 2 is too dry for me. As far as running out of source martial? not going to happen when you have the TV shows and the rest of canon. It would be a different story if we weren't getting as much content that we are every year.

It's not going to happen in one year, but Star Wars, unlike Magic, has a finite amount of material. If we want the game to last, then that material needs to be spaced out enough to allow it to last. If we accept that the game has a 4-5 year lifespan, then bring it on. Until we have 3 different Sio Bibbles. Then I'm done.

I think you are under estimating how much we have right now and the fact that you have new star wars stuff coming out quite regularly (I'm talking books, comics, games, tv, movies, etc). More then enough to feed the game, assuming FFG goes the canon route and draw from it.

I think the point Runnestrand is trying to make is that yes we all know Star Wars has a lot, but it will run out eventually because you need good selling points. The main characters are the selling points. As much as people like Rebels, Rogue One or The Clone Wars, these are not the selling points of Star Wars. The OT is the biggest seller.

On the other hand, Magic's only limitation is their minds, where for Star Wars, this stuff has a lot of red tape on what can or can't be done. Everything must be approved outside of FFG in order to have it part of their product. So if we get 3 or 4(or more) sets/products a year, we are going to be having alternate versions of characters nobody likes or wants to play with because each set can't just rehash the characters we already have. Plus that sort of power creep would be bad for the game.

This game will definitely be sticking with canon at this point. There is zero reason to believe it will deviate from that.

The OT may be the biggest part of the Star Wars brand but it is an ever growing brand. New generations are coming in to the fandom where their biggest love isn't the OT. New stuff is being added to draw people in and as long as we have new stuff coming out, then it means we have more things that can draw those people can draw in.

3-4 sets a year doesn't mean 3-4 180 card sets. You can have some of them being smaller size and still meet that number.

As far as running out of selling points, that shouldn't be an option if this game employs the rotation system. Pokemon does this just fine. By the time rotation would happen you wouldn't have burn though all your high name profiles if you pace yourself.

People want to champion Mtg (as they should) but there are other brands out there making money doing things the same but also different. I see FFG being like that.

IMO I would love at least 3 sets a year and I don't think they will have a problem with that. Any less, would seem to dry to me. Having said that I love the Star Wars brand and I will be buying every set no matter if its 2 sets a year or 4. That's my opinion, let FFG do what they will with it. They already have my money.

I just don't think FFG is good at providing OP support.

By that I don't mean what they provide in the kits; game night, store championships, regionals, etc. I think they could do a better job of recognizing what would be an in demand promo, as they release some dud, but overall the kits aren't an issue. It's the organization aspect of organized play.

They are very hands off there is very little in the way of venue involvement or venue accountability. They rely on the community to do all of the organizing, and they don't do anything to give an incentive to do that organizing.

Also their coverage of their events is terrible.

Hopefully Destiny forces changes.

There's certainly room for improvement. The IA kits have been pretty good recently as they've been releasing promo cards that have had FAQ changes which is a nice way to get re-prints out to players.

Their tournament guidelines and "how to run" documents are pretty good, but I agree that a bit more hands on would be nicer.

Then again, I'm in Australia so we always get a drop in a bucket as far as support goes.

I play a lot of tabletop games too and those guys have terrible community support in general (I'm looking at you GW), so stuff like FFG OP support is a welcome change for me.

Tournament kits, even if it's just a promo or a coin is what gets me playing the game regularly. If you don't have close friends who play as much as you do, it can be very hard to find games, especially in smaller communities (eg. Australia) so the OP tournaments are a great way to just play some games.

X-wing is at a stage now where there's enough people playing it that it's easy to self sustain (Nationals was 126 players). I can usually find a game any given day at any game store in the city with very little effort. Magic is probably the only other game where that is true. Maybe some warhammer/40k if you go to a venue that's heavily focused on those.

Ultimately the game is only good if people start and keep playing it. "Keep" being the operative word. Releasing new content constantly is important, but it's a fine line between not enough and too much.

I hear Doomtown basically imploded because they released so many kits too quickly and the buy in for a new player was immense.

I'm interested in what you think is good OP support if you think FFG is bad at it.

Apart from a little bit of Magic, I've never played anything else that was big enough and had good enough OP support.

Australia has got to be rough for all that type of stuff.

GW is terrible when it comes to OP because we'll they don't consider themselves a game company. They create models, that just so happen to also get rules, but the models are the priority. So they are almost to the contemptuous towards the idea of organized play, since that would further highlights how much they don't do in game development.

FFG is way better then that, just by virtue of making any effort. They create event rules, have OP kits, and even a tournament season. But they kind of just throw that in the wind and hope it works out. They exercise little oversight, offer very little support, and kind of straddle this weird place where it looks like they want a serious competitive circuit but also don't at the same type.

As someone who's organized and ran FFG events, they make it difficult by not having the next step of support. Useable event software, floor rules, a judges program; things like that are areas they've talked about doing but haven't done (Netrunner is the only game with floor rules). And their Regional allocation gives you the impression that they don't know where their playerbase is located, as they frequently include stores that do not have a presence as far as the particular game is concerned.

And as said they don't cover their tournaments in any real way. The only reason you know who won what with what is because the community self reports. And that doesn't always work because some in certain communities don't believe their decks should be shared after events or video of their matches posted to Youtube.

Maybe an influx of CCG oriented players who are use to more in this area along with better LGS involvement with help push them to taking those next steps. The Destiny pre-release is certainly a good sign.