So my Imperial Fleet has hyperspaced onto my desk at work because I'm struggling to wrap my mind around making them work. The lack of the light cruiser is really hurting my "red dice and chill" kinda aspect....so what I'm asking here is some tips or ideas on how to think outside of the box.

I'm a big carrier player, but recently after facing wedge/dutch/luke/b-wing dude/tycho and other rebel aces...and the Yvarius fighter/flight combo I kinda lost all idea on how to play the empire.

2 x ISD

3 x VSD

1 x Gladiator

8 x Tie Fighter

1 x Howlrunner

1 x Mauler

1 x Fel

1 x Rhymer

1 x Vader Tie

1 x Tie Advanced

4 x Tie Interceptor

4 x Tie Bomber

2 x Raider

1 x Interdictor

1 x Venator (which is a VSD....)

Rogues - boba/dengar/bosk/ig88

So what I was thinking originally was building a core around an ISD-2/Raider-2/Gonzo X 2 with fighters to taste. I like escort, so the Advanced really draws my attemtion with Howlrunner and Dengar throwing in an extra blue dice (giving them counter two basically) and maybe some interceptors and maybe an IG88 for pilot sniping...

I just...eh...I dunno I don't really like it or don't know how it'll work. I want to put the IMP on the table...run squadrons....but not get tabled by Rebel Aces.

What am I not seeing here? Do I need to rely on a demo build?

Maybe it's time to bring out the IMP 1 as a carrier?

Well, to burst bubble number one...

Howlrunner + Dengar giving Counter 2 only works if the base craft itself has Swarm...

Dengar grants Counter 1 to Everything, including Advanced.... But Howlrunner only grants the +1 to Swarmers... Which are TIE Fighter, TIE Interceptors, and Jumpmasters/Dengar

So you'll have Advanced with 3 Die Attacks, and Counter 1s.

But TIE Fighters in the same Situation will have 4 Die Attacks with a Reroll, and Counter 2 with a Reroll (assuming Swarm is working in both cases)

Advances do not have swarm, and thus do not get the howlrunner buff. However they are savage when paired with den gar for counter one and soontir for auto damage. If you are going for a pure space superiority fighter wing Vader, dengar, soontir, Mäuler, and a few more advances/interceptor will shred through any bomber wing, especially when you do the surgical alpha strike to remove key targets first (read: wedge). I do think you are doing yourself a disservice by not taking a gladiator though since you are struggling as is, I would swap your raider for Demo (or at least a gladiator) they are much easier to use than the raider.

Gozantis are the ultimate carriers I think, allowing more room for squads while maintaining activation strength. Trouble is running two leaves you with room for an isd or two smaller ships at most, but a good bombing wing plus escorts will make up for lack of ship power

I had the same problem you did with the rebel aces (especially if he is running Rieekan). The trick is running our own aces and being able to throw flak. If he is running Jan, you really need the heavy flak to throw out enough attacks to get rid of Jan's Braces and to even up the odds because the Rebs last longer and throw more dice. I think the biggest tip I have is actually to go second against these awful fighter swarms and resist all temptations to throw the alpha strike (trust me I tried and the Rebels won out every time). If you can get him to commit first or wait him out until after he's activated his main carrier, then you have a better chance. And don't forget that Fighter Coordination Teams doesn't work if the squadron is engaged (even with Intel, squadrons are still considered engaged).

Here is the fighter complement I used to run until I beat my opponent enough he stopped going all out on squadrons:

2x Advanced (or maybe three I can't remember)

1x Darth Vader
Dengar
Mauler Mithel

Comes out to 80 points. I think my ships were Imp-2, Demolisher, and Raider-1 (this was pre wave-3/4 so if you don't want to use Demo, then you could probably run an Interdictor or something)

This is my first thought for your list conditions of 1) uses ISD 2) runs squadrons 3) doesn't get destroyed by aces

Faction: Galactic Empire
Points: 399/400

Commander: General Tagge

Assault Objective: Precision Strike
Defense Objective: Contested Outpost
Navigation Objective: Minefields

[ flagship ] Imperial II-Class Star Destroyer (120 points)
- General Tagge ( 25 points)
- Gunnery Team ( 7 points)
- Electronic Countermeasures ( 7 points)
- X17 Turbolasers ( 6 points)
- Leading Shots ( 4 points)
= 169 total ship cost

Gozanti-class Cruisers (23 points)
- Expanded Hangar Bay ( 5 points)
- Bomber Command Center ( 8 points)
= 36 total ship cost

Gozanti-class Cruisers (23 points)
- Suppressor ( 4 points)
- Expanded Hangar Bay ( 5 points)
= 32 total ship cost

Gozanti-class Cruisers (23 points)
- Expanded Hangar Bay ( 5 points)
- Slicer Tools ( 7 points)
= 35 total ship cost

1 Major Rhymer ( 16 points)
2 TIE Advanced Squadrons ( 24 points)
1 Dengar ( 20 points)
3 TIE Bomber Squadrons ( 27 points)
1 "Howlrunner" ( 16 points)
3 TIE Fighter Squadrons ( 24 points)

Tagge for getting braces and scatters back against bombers, though Motti serves a similar purpose. The squadrons here should give you the ability to keep bombers off you for a good long time while providing decent threat of their own. Some things that I would think about changing around there (depending on what you're afraid of and what you want your squadrons to do and your preferences) include swapping a TIE Advanced for a generic Jumpmaster, Howlrunner for Mauler Mithel, or bombers for TIE Fighters. In any case, just have the Gozantis push around squadrons and provide AA fire and have the ISD spam navigates and engineering.

flight controllers howl, ties, dengar, mauler.

Activate 6 tie fighters into enemy with ISD (with exp hangar and token), throw 6 blues out of an 8 point squadron x 6. 36 blue dice at a range 4 threat radius. just a midnight musing.

flight controllers howl, ties, dengar, mauler.

...

throw 6 blues out of an 8 point squadron x 6.

3 base = 3

+1 Howlrunner = 4

+1 Flight Controllers = 5

... what am I missing...?

flight controllers howl, ties, dengar, mauler.

...

throw 6 blues out of an 8 point squadron x 6.

3 base = 3

+1 Howlrunner = 4

+1 Flight Controllers = 5

... what am I missing...?

You are missing that I'm half asleep and fairly dumb when fully awake but STILL OTS O DICE ON TEH CHEAP!

I feel your pain... and I'm not sure what imperial answer there is now... you can take expensive imp aces but if you gear too much to the anti squadron side and a guy shows up with no squads it's really hard to get much out of your anti squadron investment... gear too much toward bombers and rebel squads will walk all over you... it's the problem of the imperial not having a Relatively cheap multi-role fighter bomber... so what to do...

Some solutions I've come up with are:

Firesprays with ruthless strategist, lots of hull for strat triggers, and the only true multi role fighter bomber available, though expensive in game terms and real life

Go full anti squads and pray for squadron matchup in tourney, though the meta is likely enough into squadrons that it would be viable

Go buy rebel expansion packs and build your own rebel fleet today! If you can beat em join em!

It's kind of funny to me reading this, because from the Rebel perspective, I've long been frustrated that the Imps have such a great multirole anti-squadron/anti-ship ship. Instigator and Impetuous both are amazing anti-squadron titles against most squadron builds, and all the most popular ones. Instigator in particular can largely remove the need to bring squadrons at all.

The fantastic thing about them is that you can build your Raider for anti-ship--ExL, APT, whatever--and then slap on the 4-point title and boom your fleet has a strong answer to squadrons. One of the strongest anti-ship upgrades to the R1 in particular--OE--also happens to be one of the best antisquadron upgrades on it.

I'm not saying the Raider is the be-all end-all of squadron defense, or that you guys are somehow wrong for wanting flexible squadrons. I just think that by limiting the discussion to squadrons, you're overlooking this tool you have that is extremely versatile in pivoting from squadron to ship duty based on the game. I'd argue even more so than BCC X-wings or YT-2400 swarms.

It's kind of funny to me reading this, because from the Rebel perspective, I've long been frustrated that the Imps have such a great multirole anti-squadron/anti-ship ship. Instigator and Impetuous both are amazing anti-squadron titles against most squadron builds, and all the most popular ones. Instigator in particular can largely remove the need to bring squadrons at all.

The fantastic thing about them is that you can build your Raider for anti-ship--ExL, APT, whatever--and then slap on the 4-point title and boom your fleet has a strong answer to squadrons. One of the strongest anti-ship upgrades to the R1 in particular--OE--also happens to be one of the best antisquadron upgrades on it.

I'm not saying the Raider is the be-all end-all of squadron defense, or that you guys are somehow wrong for wanting flexible squadrons. I just think that by limiting the discussion to squadrons, you're overlooking this tool you have that is extremely versatile in pivoting from squadron to ship duty based on the game. I'd argue even more so than BCC X-wings or YT-2400 swarms.

Im also becoming a fan of Glad II demo with agent Kallus, don't even have to finesse to double arc the aces.

It's kind of funny to me reading this, because from the Rebel perspective, I've long been frustrated that the Imps have such a great multirole anti-squadron/anti-ship ship. Instigator and Impetuous both are amazing anti-squadron titles against most squadron builds, and all the most popular ones. Instigator in particular can largely remove the need to bring squadrons at all.

The fantastic thing about them is that you can build your Raider for anti-ship--ExL, APT, whatever--and then slap on the 4-point title and boom your fleet has a strong answer to squadrons. One of the strongest anti-ship upgrades to the R1 in particular--OE--also happens to be one of the best antisquadron upgrades on it.

I'm not saying the Raider is the be-all end-all of squadron defense, or that you guys are somehow wrong for wanting flexible squadrons. I just think that by limiting the discussion to squadrons, you're overlooking this tool you have that is extremely versatile in pivoting from squadron to ship duty based on the game. I'd argue even more so than BCC X-wings or YT-2400 swarms.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but can't you add "Rapid Reload" to a Raider I and get 3 black dice against squadrons? Two Raider I's, each with the Raider titles, and you should have a really good anti squadron death machine. Not to mention that they can fire once on each ship in a given arc and when done with the squadrons, turn all those dice against the rebel ships. Also the Raider at speed 2, has 2 yaw at both points! If you want something in arc, it's in arc.

It's kind of funny to me reading this, because from the Rebel perspective, I've long been frustrated that the Imps have such a great multirole anti-squadron/anti-ship ship. Instigator and Impetuous both are amazing anti-squadron titles against most squadron builds, and all the most popular ones. Instigator in particular can largely remove the need to bring squadrons at all.

The fantastic thing about them is that you can build your Raider for anti-ship--ExL, APT, whatever--and then slap on the 4-point title and boom your fleet has a strong answer to squadrons. One of the strongest anti-ship upgrades to the R1 in particular--OE--also happens to be one of the best antisquadron upgrades on it.

I'm not saying the Raider is the be-all end-all of squadron defense, or that you guys are somehow wrong for wanting flexible squadrons. I just think that by limiting the discussion to squadrons, you're overlooking this tool you have that is extremely versatile in pivoting from squadron to ship duty based on the game. I'd argue even more so than BCC X-wings or YT-2400 swarms.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but can't you add "Rapid Reload" to a Raider I and get 3 black dice against squadrons? Two Raider I's, each with the Raider titles, and you should have a really good anti squadron death machine. Not to mention that they can fire once on each ship in a given arc and when done with the squadrons, turn all those dice against the rebel ships. Also the Raider at speed 2, has 2 yaw at both points! If you want something in arc, it's in arc.

Never mind my first question. I just saw on page two of the rules ref. that "batteries" refers to attacking ships, not squadrons. Still even with 2 black dice, they should be formidable and you could back them up with some cheap squadrons.

Oh and another thing with the Raider is that it activates before squadrons and you don't need other ships to act as carriers. It's a nasty ship. Weak against ships, but a bane to fighters.

As an imp you can build a list with very little fighter cover that can murder a bomber list, AAA is the way forward.

Glad 2 demolisher, my favourite ship can be configured to really hunt fighters with four blue dice a round into the fighter pack and it can also be configured to focus on support flotillas and scatter aces (with agent callus) by adding a sensor team.

Instigator,( go for raider two as a blue black is a good combo) paired up with a group of ties as escorts. Jam this boy into the Intel ship to lock down the whole bomber group, ties are used to prevent bombers from focusing down instigator. Next round he can pump in two dice.

Impetuous, with agent callus, get a double arc in and you've just put 9 dice into an ace......

Not forgetting you gunnery team IDS2 pop in an extra 2 blues at enemy fights will soon see them start to wilt ( add in quads for fun).

Your very basic glad 2 can add to the level of flak you put out....

Using some or all of these elements can make a ship list that's can pound a 133 point fighter list into the ground. You just have to treat the fighter list in the same way as a ship and focus your attacks on it.........

Demo ii is great at squadron, but focusing on squad while keeping it away from enemy ships after it activated is a chore, demo is much better spent by using it to just go after a carrier... instigator is sweet, but explodes against ships... and without fighters along with it, the enemy bombers can light it up fairly easily... and talking fire from it isn't as devastating when Jan is bracing it down...

Raiders are trash, if you're having trouble with squadrons, bring interceptors. Demolisher is the best title in the game, and nothing hits like an ISD-i. It can also take Gunnery Teams and when backed up by a target scrambling Interdictior, it's very hard to kill.

Raiders are trash, if you're having trouble with squadrons, bring interceptors. Demolisher is the best title in the game, and nothing hits like an ISD-i. It can also take Gunnery Teams and when backed up by a target scrambling Interdictior, it's very hard to kill.

Raiders are far from trash, however they require a LOT of finesse and range control in order to not go poof. This can make them hard to position for the squad game, being able to threaten squads at close range while still remaining out of the danger zones of enemy ships. But when driven properly, they shred through enemy squadron balls like nothing else can

Alright guys, I'm really liking what I'm seeing here....it's definitely given me a few ideas on where to go here. Gonna seriously look at the Raider now.

*waits for tie phantoms and defenders*

Raiders are trash, if you're having trouble with squadrons, bring interceptors. Demolisher is the best title in the game, and nothing hits like an ISD-i. It can also take Gunnery Teams and when backed up by a target scrambling Interdictior, it's very hard to kill.

Raiders aren't trash, you just can't fly them like you do every other Imperial ship. There are some skilled Raider pilots out there who have made my life miserable with rebel squadrons.

Raiders are trash, if you're having trouble with squadrons, bring interceptors. Demolisher is the best title in the game, and nothing hits like an ISD-i. It can also take Gunnery Teams and when backed up by a target scrambling Interdictior, it's very hard to kill.

Raiders aren't trash, you just can't fly them like you do every other Imperial ship. There are some skilled Raider pilots out there who have made my life miserable with rebel squadrons.

The great thing is that these AAA ships are all nasty close range bawlers and can turn on the carrier in a flash.... Generally a raider will managed to tank a long range attack or three, then if there are no bombers to eat it should be in position to double arc before legging it........ They drive like CR90 Bs in that respect, but eat fighters and have a slightly better chance surving as they leg it......

Sold my soul to Satan....

Bust out the ISD
Author: GottMituns205

Faction: Galactic Empire
Points: 397/400

Commander: Admiral Screed

Assault Objective: Most Wanted
Defense Objective: Hyperspace Assault
Navigation Objective: Superior Positions

[ flagship ] Imperial II-Class Star Destroyer (120 points)
- Admiral Screed ( 26 points)
- Relentless ( 3 points)
- Admiral Chiraneau ( 10 points)
- Flight Controllers ( 6 points)
- Expanded Hangar Bay ( 5 points)
- Electronic Countermeasures ( 7 points)
= 177 total ship cost

Gladiator II-Class Star Destroyer (62 points)
- Demolisher ( 10 points)
- Ordnance Experts ( 4 points)
- Engine Techs ( 8 points)
- Assault Concussion Missiles ( 7 points)
= 91 total ship cost

Raider-II Class Corvette (48 points)
- Instigator ( 4 points)
- Agent Kallus ( 3 points)
- Quad Laser Turrets ( 5 points)
= 60 total ship cost

1 "Howlrunner" ( 16 points)
3 TIE Interceptor Squadrons ( 33 points)
1 Dengar ( 20 points)

ISD 2 = Carrier

Demolisher = mega threat

Raider = flak boat

Howlrunner rolls behind Interceptors, Chin and Dengar keep the ball moving....flight controllers deal the damage.

Raiders are trash, if you're having trouble with squadrons, bring interceptors. Demolisher is the best title in the game, and nothing hits like an ISD-i. It can also take Gunnery Teams and when backed up by a target scrambling Interdictior, it's very hard to kill.

Raiders aren't trash, you just can't fly them like you do every other Imperial ship. There are some skilled Raider pilots out there who have made my life miserable with rebel squadrons.

Oh man are we going to have FourDogsInaHorseSuit ruin TWO threads now due to Raiders? I guess we'll just need to wait and see.

And yes, Raiders require some practice. Probably the trickiest Imperial ships to master at the moment. They can be used quite well but the standard Imperial direct use ("I'm going to rush at the thing I want to kill!") makes Raiders dead dead dead. They're more reactive.

Gottimuns, I don't care much for your current list. Only 3 activations isn't great and the list doesn't leverage Screed well. ISD-II giving up Gunnery Teams for Flight Controllers feels like a mistake, especially given how few ships you have (you need that ISD-II pouring out lasers as much as possible to even up the activations pronto).

The struggle is real :/