40 point Bossk, Gunner, Hot-$#@ Co-Pilot Party Bus vs. the bog-standard 34 point version?

The 40 point version will have an easier time hitting an ace but may not be 6 points better.

Wow, thank you very much for posting this. It's quite exciting to see the stats for the Resistance Sympathizer finally. 11 pts more than ORS but the full Falcon stat line....now to decide if it's worth it.

Take any named Falcon pilot. Deduct 1 per PS, 1 for EPT slot, and 1 for unique pilot talent. It's perfectly costed on that scale.

Just because you use a random formula that may/may not have been used in costing the card doesn't mean that it's priced effectively (and there are plenty that don't follow that model). It's pretty clear from this that they recognized they undercosted the scout significantly (it is a point cheaper with an EPT slot and the Punishing One Title).

"Random" formula? Um, okay.

I spent last weekend running through every ship and pilot in the game, spreadsheeting their costs, existence of EPT slot and existence of unique pilot ability. It was a revealing exercise. It is perfectly valid to establish a baseline costing structure that values 1 point per PS, 1 point for existence of an EPT slot, and 1 point for being a unique pilot with an ability. Of course there are plenty of pilots that deviate from this structure by +/-1, even a few uniques that deviate by +/-2 (specifically, Porkins and Xizor) and one glaring pilot who is overcosted +3 (that would be Major Rhymer). And the low PS generics of swarmy ship types (TIE/ln, for example) are also exceptions to the rule because they are extremely cheap and the game was designed so that you couldn't fly more than 8 ships, period, so they are generally +1 or +2 overcosted against the baseline formula. Anyway, call this paragraph a sneak peak of an analysis (which likely has been done by others before me, this is just my take) I have been hoping to pull together and post here on the forums. Maybe this weekend.

But it ain't random. It's empirical.

Random was probably a poor word to use there and overshadowed my point, since by random I meant more that the formula may have a pattern but has nothing to do with what a ship's actual cost should be. I actually am aware that it isn't unusual for them to use that sort of range for a group of ships (and something I'd wish they'd done away with a long time ago and I've posted to that effect awhile ago). With respect to your post, the cost making sense in the scale doesn't make a ship "worth it," otherwise, we'd see a lot more game balance.

40 point Bossk, Gunner, Hot-$#@ Co-Pilot Party Bus vs. the bog-standard 34 point version?

The 40 point version will have an easier time hitting an ace but may not be 6 points better.

not even close

but now you can fly TWO party buses!

Well, between this and sensor cluster r2 poe looks better all the time

trick shot, Wedge, Jan Ors.......

Can you spend a focus token EVEN IF you didn't roll an eye??

Can you spend a focus token EVEN IF you didn't roll an eye??

Yup.

FAQ even allows Keyan to spend a stress if he had no eyes to convert.

Crew: Co-pilot ace

When attacking with a primary weapon, the defender must spend 1 Focus token, if able.

When you're defending, the attacker must spend 1 Focus token, if able.

works both ways.

But if the attacker does not have a focus token then do they still get the attack. I would think so.

Anyone else agree that the cost is right for Hot-Shot Co-Pilot? It's an awesome ability that I'm surprised we've not seen before (aside from the parallels of Juke/Sensor Jammer) but is quite expensive as Crew upgrades go, and does take up the all-important crew slot.

I'm really impressed with a number of new pilots/upgrades and appreciate the balance we're seeing.

Now, if we could just get a time machine and eradicate Condition Cards from history, I'd be happy.

Now, if we could just get a time machine and eradicate Condition Cards from history, I'd be happy.

what's wrong with ion or t-beams?

or are those not conditions just because they're not called conditions (even though they come with their own upgrade cards, reference card AND unique token)

Crew: Co-pilot ace

When attacking with a primary weapon, the defender must spend 1 Focus token, if able.

When you're defending, the attacker must spend 1 Focus token, if able.

works both ways.

But if the attacker does not have a focus token then do they still get the attack. I would think so.

Yes, they do. All copilot does is FORCE the opponent to spend their focus token normally. If they don't have a focus token, it does nothing.

That said, really looking forward to seeing 5 A-wings with trick shot instead of adaptability.

Yeah, it's effectively a hard counter to Poe, since he doesn't get to use his ability for the entire round, or regen with R5-P9.

Could be the 'hard counter' to U-boat wolfpacks, too, no? That is, if you shoot at them first, regardless of what you roll, you strip them of their ability to Deadeye a torpedo back at you.

Can you spend a focus token EVEN IF you didn't roll an eye??

Sure. And you can spend a target lock and reroll 0 dice, too.

Not often cases you want to, but you definitely can.

Snap Crackle n Pop, baby!

how many trick shots do we get?

this sounds like one of those expensive ones I need to buy 2 of.

Yeah, it's effectively a hard counter to Poe, since he doesn't get to use his ability for the entire round, or regen with R5-P9.

Could be the 'hard counter' to U-boat wolfpacks, too, no? That is, if you shoot at them first, regardless of what you roll, you strip them of their ability to Deadeye a torpedo back at you.

edit: much better

how many trick shots do we get?

this sounds like one of those expensive ones I need to buy 2 of.

HOTR gives 2 and the Upsilon gives you 2 as well. So if you want 5, you need to buy 2 of one of these packs. Question is which one gives you the most other cards? probably the ups lol

Though the other issue is Upsilon is wave10, we may not see that for another 3 months or so.

Yeah, it's effectively a hard counter to Poe, since he doesn't get to use his ability for the entire round, or regen with R5-P9.

Could be the 'hard counter' to U-boat wolfpacks, too, no? That is, if you shoot at them first, regardless of what you roll, you strip them of their ability to Deadeye a torpedo back at you.

edit: much better

Yeah, definitely it would have had more impact before the nerf to the Agromech. Still, it means the U-boat is double-stressed if it wants to have any kind of quality on the torpedo shot (one stress to keep the focus after you Co-pilot him, another stress to have something to boost the torpedo with).

That's...not bad.

how many trick shots do we get?

this sounds like one of those expensive ones I need to buy 2 of.

HOTR gives 2 and the Upsilon gives you 2 as well. So if you want 5, you need to buy 2 of one of these packs. Question is which one gives you the most other cards? probably the ups lol

being primarily a rebel player, and primarily flying X-wings I can't see myself getting the upsilon unless it has something really cool in it that I don't know about yet.

HotR has a lot of what I want though... this has been tearing me up inside because I want it so bad to try some of these in a real game scenario.

Yeah, it's effectively a hard counter to Poe, since he doesn't get to use his ability for the entire round, or regen with R5-P9.

Could be the 'hard counter' to U-boat wolfpacks, too, no? That is, if you shoot at them first, regardless of what you roll, you strip them of their ability to Deadeye a torpedo back at you.

edit: much better

Yeah, definitely it would have had more impact before the nerf to the Agromech. Still, it means the U-boat is double-stressed if it wants to have any kind of quality on the torpedo shot (one stress to keep the focus after you Co-pilot him, another stress to have something to boost the torpedo with).

That's...not bad.

the one you shoot at is double stressed

the other one/two are not, as they can spend their deadeye focus and then r4 and then spend the other focus regardless

it's not nothing, certainly, but idk if that's 4 points worthy

without the primary weapon restriction, though...

how many trick shots do we get?

this sounds like one of those expensive ones I need to buy 2 of.

HOTR gives 2 and the Upsilon gives you 2 as well. So if you want 5, you need to buy 2 of one of these packs. Question is which one gives you the most other cards? probably the ups lol

being primarily a rebel player, and primarily flying X-wings I can't see myself getting the upsilon unless it has something really cool in it that I don't know about yet.

HotR has a lot of what I want though... this has been tearing me up inside because I want it so bad to try some of these in a real game scenario.

It very well might. Theres 2 new techs in it. And we have no idea what Ion Pr... or Oper... Spec... (operations specialist most likely) do. Neither appear to be imp only.

Wow, thank you very much for posting this. It's quite exciting to see the stats for the Resistance Sympathizer finally. 11 pts more than ORS but the full Falcon stat line....now to decide if it's worth it.

Take any named Falcon pilot. Deduct 1 per PS, 1 for EPT slot, and 1 for unique pilot talent. It's perfectly costed on that scale.

Just because you use a random formula that may/may not have been used in costing the card doesn't mean that it's priced effectively (and there are plenty that don't follow that model). It's pretty clear from this that they recognized they undercosted the scout significantly (it is a point cheaper with an EPT slot and the Punishing One Title).

"Random" formula? Um, okay.

I spent last weekend running through every ship and pilot in the game, spreadsheeting their costs, existence of EPT slot and existence of unique pilot ability. It was a revealing exercise. It is perfectly valid to establish a baseline costing structure that values 1 point per PS, 1 point for existence of an EPT slot, and 1 point for being a unique pilot with an ability. Of course there are plenty of pilots that deviate from this structure by +/-1, even a few uniques that deviate by +/-2 (specifically, Porkins and Xizor) and one glaring pilot who is overcosted +3 (that would be Major Rhymer). And the low PS generics of swarmy ship types (TIE/ln, for example) are also exceptions to the rule because they are extremely cheap and the game was designed so that you couldn't fly more than 8 ships, period, so they are generally +1 or +2 overcosted against the baseline formula. Anyway, call this paragraph a sneak peak of an analysis (which likely has been done by others before me, this is just my take) I have been hoping to pull together and post here on the forums. Maybe this weekend.

But it ain't random. It's empirical.

Random was probably a poor word to use there and overshadowed my point, since by random I meant more that the formula may have a pattern but has nothing to do with what a ship's actual cost should be. I actually am aware that it isn't unusual for them to use that sort of range for a group of ships (and something I'd wish they'd done away with a long time ago and I've posted to that effect awhile ago). With respect to your post, the cost making sense in the scale doesn't make a ship "worth it," otherwise, we'd see a lot more game balance.

No harm done. My response was a bit snarky because, well, it's been that kind of day.

You are correct that my model considers only point values WITHIN a single ship type. It has nothing to say regarding relative values among different ship types, and whether any given chassis is "worth it" in the grand scheme of the game. I have been theorizing a few simple metrics that may shed some light on that, though ...

It is illuminating to see those instances where later-wave updates to certain ship types introduced pilots that were deliberately discounted relative to the point scale used in the ship's introduction, obviously an attempt to cure the initial overcosting of the chassis.

Yeah, it's effectively a hard counter to Poe, since he doesn't get to use his ability for the entire round, or regen with R5-P9.

Could be the 'hard counter' to U-boat wolfpacks, too, no? That is, if you shoot at them first, regardless of what you roll, you strip them of their ability to Deadeye a torpedo back at you.

edit: much better

Yeah, definitely it would have had more impact before the nerf to the Agromech. Still, it means the U-boat is double-stressed if it wants to have any kind of quality on the torpedo shot (one stress to keep the focus after you Co-pilot him, another stress to have something to boost the torpedo with).

That's...not bad.

the one you shoot at is double stressed

the other one/two are not, as they can spend their deadeye focus and then r4 and then spend the other focus regardless

it's not nothing, certainly, but idk if that's 4 points worthy

without the primary weapon restriction, though...

Doesn't look like it's a unique card, so seems like you could run multiples of them in your list (presuming multiple ships with a crew slot that want to spend 4 pts on this). 3x Warden + TLT + Hot copilot? That's a lot of enemy focus tokens going away, or a lot of stress on an overclocked R4.

Gotta say, thought, the price tag on this guy does feel a bit steep...

Well, between this and sensor cluster r2 poe looks better all the time

You certainly meant Pattern Analyzer, correct? Because there is no tech upgrade you should put on Poe other than that. It's so good on him it's painful.

how many trick shots do we get?

this sounds like one of those expensive ones I need to buy 2 of.

HOTR gives 2 and the Upsilon gives you 2 as well. So if you want 5, you need to buy 2 of one of these packs. Question is which one gives you the most other cards? probably the ups lol

being primarily a rebel player, and primarily flying X-wings I can't see myself getting the upsilon unless it has something really cool in it that I don't know about yet.

HotR has a lot of what I want though... this has been tearing me up inside because I want it so bad to try some of these in a real game scenario.

As long as you don't have an issue with a digital version of the game being "real," you could always jump on Vassal.

Fantastic stuff, some really interesting new ideas in those cards. Takes the shine off a bit when it took less than *ten minutes* for one to be declared useless, though. Amazing how quickly people think they can get the full and complete measure of a card's applications.