I'm prepping for a local tournament. I'm running Vessery with X7, Juke and Ryad with PTL, X7, MII engine.

Who is better to help them? Palp on a shuttle or an X7 Delta? I like that Palp can help with some really clutch rolls but when I play him I only get 2-3 attacks off from the shuttle. Maybe I am a poor shuttle player. I think I fly the defenders well and a Delta would help out offensively as I think I could get off more attacks than the shuttle.

Thoughts?

Palpatine is awesome, but he's probably better on a TIE Advanced Prototype/TIE Interceptor list where he can stop "that one **** dice" from failing.

If a TIE defender fluffs its dice roll and takes a single hit.....it just keeps right on rolling. They don't need Palpatine's evil dice ju-ju as much as Soontir and co do, and you can definitely get mileage out of a third tough, heavyweight fighter.

While the results for that list speak for themselves, I find that I dislike that juke on Vessery isn't as useful against higher PS aces if I have to spend my evade to survive, and prefer not to stress myself. I also preferred having a more open dial on Ryad, which is why I played Vessery/Ryad/Glaive, all with X7 and crack shot, over the summer and managed to snag a few tournaments with it.

This is one of the ongoing discussions in my team.

Personally I am 100% in favour of the Palp Shuttle, and I think most of the people in the team who are running Defenders are leaning that way as well. Everyone else thinks we're crazy for taking the lumbering shuttle over a third Defender, but the results are speaking for themselves. Two of us took Palp Shuttles to a tournament and we split the final between us, then I took Palp Shuttles to UK Team Championship and didn't lose a game.

I think there's HUGE play in the shuttle. You have to use it much more aggressively than you do in Palp Aces because you need those red dice, but having that big base blocking up the opponent is huge for ensuring your Defenders get good shots. I tend to have the Shuttle join the boys on their attack run, get dinged up, then run out the far side and use Palp from a safe distance. Just having something that isn't constantly buzzing about the place top speed like a Defender gives you some critical tactical options and forces tough decisions from the opponent.

Weakest link in the list IS Juke, as Darthlurker says. It's good but too many lists find Focus results easy to come by. When it really comes into it's own is when you can block something and then hit it with Vessery. That hurts. Juke is disposable but there's not really anything else you'd take instead in the 2pt EPT spot. If Asajj really takes off I think I'd genuinely consider taking Crack Shot and Twin Ion Engine Mk II instead, to give Vessery more greens.


Just to share my opening... I tend to look at the board to see where I can deploy the shuttle and be able to throw it forward then have a clear line of escape for it after the early fighting. I line it up sideways with Ryad and Vessery in front of it, as though I'm going to fortress like in Palp Aces. First turn the shuttle throws a hard 2 turn to face up the board and the Defenders 3 forward to leap frog it. Next turn you send the shuttle 2 forward to leapfrog the Defenders again and clear stress to either Target Lock something for Vessery or Focus, and the boys head into the fight.

You've now got the shuttle engaged for firing but also blocking their k-turns so your Defenders can wrap around on turn 3 and come back while the opponent has to try and avoid bumping into the shuttle.

EDIT: I've created an album with some pics of a game where I took down Triple Aces at UKTC: http://imgur.com/a/3zCZX

I think Lone Wolf is a decent upgrade for Vessery if you don't like Juke. Conventionally, Ryad is the enabler and the stronger late game closer, but Lone Wolf on Vessery makes him a very strong closer as well, although at the cost of early-mid game power. I think the flight patterns you typically use with PalpDefenders probably don't allow you to get much use out of it, but it's something to keep in mind as metas unfold. Overall, the Crack Shot/ TIE Mk2 combo is probably better. You could try funny stuff like Lightning Reflexes/Mk2, though. That could allow you a touch of extra flexibility to keep guns on target for that much longer. It gives both your Defenders fairly unpredictable turnaround moves.

I'm having some success locally with my 'Stress Less' Palpjousters, Vess with the normal x7 and Juke, but with TIE Mk 2, while Ryad has x& and Predator, Palpshuttle with Collision detector.

I'm a bit worried about Asajj becoming a bit of a Scum Staple and the StressMule bringing rebel control back, so went away from the triple action economy and went for 2 - 2.5 actions a turn, but able to get that despite being stressed.

Have to agree that the getting the shuttle stuck into the combat is critical. It's another TL for Vess to trigger off, it's another 3-4 dice attack (usually once all tokens have been stripped), it's a big base blocker, as well as carrying Palp around. Compared to normal PalpAces, the shuttle has to do it's 29 points worth of damage, it can't just hide at the back and enable Soontir/Inq to do most of the damage.

Vote would be for the Palp shuttle as well, though I've yet to try two Defenders with it (Vessery and OL are my go to list right now, though I'm a little concerned about stress-ARCs and Shadowcasters...).

I don't play Palp offensively at first -- I let him act as bait. If the enemy goes for it, I'm able to get uncontested shots with my fighters. Vessery's Juke has been absolutely fantastic for me, it has literally won me games. BUT I will take shields before I spend the evade, if I have a good shot lined up. It's the same way I play Omega Leader, in that regards.

If the opponent doesn't take the bait, I'll swing the shuttle in at the next convenient moment -- this usually gets me a couple of surprise kills. At the last tournament night I played, the shuttle took out a re-grouping Howlrunner and a particularly annoying B-Wing (forget which, but it had left Vessery limping unexpectedly).

That being said, for folks that rush the shuttle in, I'm rarely going to take that side -- it takes roughly two shots from most lists to take all the shields off of the shuttle, and I like to horde MoV until I know I'm going to bleeding some anyway.

The last two local tournaments nights, I came close to having perfect MoV (one night, it was only half points on the shuttle that I lost ).

Another consideration for the shuttle -- if you can fit the title, it is a perfect companion for Vessery.

Another another consideration for the shuttle -- Collision Detectors make it so you can bring those guns to bear during especially unexpected times, as long as you don't mind picking up some extra stress.

With so many negative posts on here. I have to say that it's been a pleasure reading this it's all been very constructive and a true pleasure.

I use the the shuttle like a dump truck, plowing straight forward into the enemy knowing that the defenders can usually tank up to 2 hits on their own. Then you get to spend palp on offense, and that's when things get fun.

With so many negative posts on here. I have to say that it's been a pleasure reading this it's all been very constructive and a true pleasure.

You're not out of the woods yet -- I'm not seeing some of our more... outspoken... members in this thread yet.

I use the the shuttle like a dump truck, plowing straight forward into the enemy knowing that the defenders can usually tank up to 2 hits on their own. Then you get to spend palp on offense, and that's when things get fun.

This bleeds MoV, though, which can be an important factor in tournaments. I wouldn't fly like this unless I was rocking Sensor Jammer on the shuttle. And, even then, it would be extremely dependent on the match-up.

This is one of the ongoing discussions in my team.

Personally I am 100% in favour of the Palp Shuttle, and I think most of the people in the team who are running Defenders are leaning that way as well. Everyone else thinks we're crazy for taking the lumbering shuttle over a third Defender, but the results are speaking for themselves. Two of us took Palp Shuttles to a tournament and we split the final between us, then I took Palp Shuttles to UK Team Championship and didn't lose a game.

I think there's HUGE play in the shuttle. You have to use it much more aggressively than you do in Palp Aces because you need those red dice, but having that big base blocking up the opponent is huge for ensuring your Defenders get good shots. I tend to have the Shuttle join the boys on their attack run, get dinged up, then run out the far side and use Palp from a safe distance. Just having something that isn't constantly buzzing about the place top speed like a Defender gives you some critical tactical options and forces tough decisions from the opponent.

Weakest link in the list IS Juke, as Darthlurker says. It's good but too many lists find Focus results easy to come by. When it really comes into it's own is when you can block something and then hit it with Vessery. That hurts. Juke is disposable but there's not really anything else you'd take instead in the 2pt EPT spot. If Asajj really takes off I think I'd genuinely consider taking Crack Shot and Twin Ion Engine Mk II instead, to give Vessery more greens.

Just to share my opening... I tend to look at the board to see where I can deploy the shuttle and be able to throw it forward then have a clear line of escape for it after the early fighting. I line it up sideways with Ryad and Vessery in front of it, as though I'm going to fortress like in Palp Aces. First turn the shuttle throws a hard 2 turn to face up the board and the Defenders 3 forward to leap frog it. Next turn you send the shuttle 2 forward to leapfrog the Defenders again and clear stress to either Target Lock something for Vessery or Focus, and the boys head into the fight.

You've now got the shuttle engaged for firing but also blocking their k-turns so your Defenders can wrap around on turn 3 and come back while the opponent has to try and avoid bumping into the shuttle.

EDIT: I've created an album with some pics of a game where I took down Triple Aces at UKTC: http://imgur.com/a/3zCZX

What is exactly your favorite build with the D's and Shuttle? ...Asaji free of course; none of my mates have a Shadowcaster yet.

This bleeds MoV, though, which can be an important factor in tournaments.

I mean, yeah, kinda ...but I fly a 66pt Decimator on the regular and that thing bleeds MoV. My record with it is still pretty outstanding.

The trick to bleeding MoV is just to make sure that your opponent bleeds more.

This bleeds MoV, though, which can be an important factor in tournaments.

I mean, yeah, kinda ...but I fly a 66pt Decimator on the regular and that thing bleeds MoV. My record with it is still pretty outstanding.

The trick to bleeding MoV is just to make sure that your opponent bleeds more.

I think this is more of a meta dependent issue. In my area, we have a lot of strong players mixed with a range of other skill levels. MoV becomes VERY important at the end of the day.

I've gotten to the point where, even if I lose a game, I generally have the highest/one of the highest MoVs at the event...

I came in 4th at our last Tournament night, but had the highest MoV (which, of course, is a pointless fact, as it only matters to others competing for 4th).

I came in 4th at our last Tournament night, but had the highest MoV

So...what you're saying is that you'd have been better off with a list that worried less about MoV and more about crushing the maximum number of skulls for the maximum amount of wins? Good plan. That's the plan that Decimator pilot would have.

Just bustin' your chops. Much love.

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Personally, i'd leave palpy home purely because im not a fan of the "meta favorites" and palpy is EVERYWHERE (though in my area he seems to have vanished...i havnt seen him in awhile)

But from a competitive standpoint without that mentality: i'd still say not worth it. Like Magnus said, defenders are designed to take a hit and not really care. Palp excels at blocking that seemingly guaranteed bad roll you get every turn on 1 of your ships, where even a 2hit attack somehow lands a hit without him around despite your token stack.

the Space Cow is abysmal. I have tried to find a reason for it to exist other than palp for eons....its just flatout terrible. That defender will contribute far more than palp. You may not last as long but you will hit way harder. Space Cow shoots once maybe twice, then spends 3-4 turns turning around.

I came in 4th at our last Tournament night, but had the highest MoV

So...what you're saying is that you'd have been better off with a list that worried less about MoV and more about crushing the maximum number of skulls for the maximum amount of wins? Good plan. That's the plan that Decimator pilot would have.

Just bustin' your chops. Much love.

Ah, didn't delve into the details, so your objective interpretation was sound.

In that instance, I was describing how my play style adapted to my local meta. Traditionally, I table my opponents (if I win), I very rarely have games go to time.

That specific instance I lost my only match (that kept me out of first place) by three MoV points (he had a half-dead Dash, I had Omega Leader).

So MoV was even more important for me, though there wasn't much else I could do about it, it came down to both sides flying well and having alternating hot and cold dice (Dash rolled a total of 9 blanks in a row, which is partially why OL was even on the board. I rolled red dice well, struggled with green).

I lean towards Palpatine because it can really do a great job adjusting the dice skew in combat.

I use 100 puts

Steele, x7, Juke

Vessery, x7, Juke

OGP, Palpatine, Tractor Beam

Mid game is when Steele begins to really shine for obvious reasons.

I run my Shuttle like Nikk Whyte does (we are in the same area) as I don't focus on MOV since the most my opponents tend to get is half of the shuttle. Damage mitigation prolongs the life of the defenders allowing them to do more damage over time. They are disgusting because they are such efficient killers.

This bleeds MoV, though, which can be an important factor in tournaments.

I mean, yeah, kinda ...but I fly a 66pt Decimator on the regular and that thing bleeds MoV. My record with it is still pretty outstanding.

The trick to bleeding MoV is just to make sure that your opponent bleeds more.

MOV matters little if you just don't lose.

I've tried both and it really, really, depends on your block game. If you're a world-class blocker with the Delta then the Trip Deffies can be extremely powerful - in matches against ace based lists I'd argue that it's better than Palp Defenders because the Delta has the pep to block enemy aces, and a block on an ace is incredibly useful if you can use Ryad and Vessery to give it the one two punch and wipe it out. Even Palp can't help offset that hit too much. It can also potentially zip ahead and block a U-Boat in a U-Boat list or gum up a Biggs-based squad's movement, which would be game changing.

However, Palpatine is much easier to use and is perhaps better against lists like Dengaroo where the sheer bulk of the Shuttle is useful to pin ships like Dengar in place for a turn or two while his magic can offset Zuckuss.

So try 'em both out, but with the caveat that unless you've practiced the Delta blocks tremendously it'll probably perform worse.

This bleeds MoV, though, which can be an important factor in tournaments.

I mean, yeah, kinda ...but I fly a 66pt Decimator on the regular and that thing bleeds MoV. My record with it is still pretty outstanding.

The trick to bleeding MoV is just to make sure that your opponent bleeds more.

MOV matters little if you just don't lose.

That's actually not true, at all, depending on the cut, player count, and format of the tournament.

This bleeds MoV, though, which can be an important factor in tournaments.

I mean, yeah, kinda ...but I fly a 66pt Decimator on the regular and that thing bleeds MoV. My record with it is still pretty outstanding.

The trick to bleeding MoV is just to make sure that your opponent bleeds more.

MOV matters little if you just don't lose.

That's actually not true, at all, depending on the cut, player count, and format of the tournament.

If you don't lose, it doesn't matter what tournament you're at as long as there IS a cut. I've never seen an x-wing tournament where an undefeated player didn't make the cut. If you lose 1-2 games, THEN MoV can matter, but if you're undefeated (aka "just don't lose"), Mov is meaningless.