"Whisper" (41) - TIE Phantom

Veteran Instincts (1), Fire Control System (2), Agent Kallus (2), Advanced Cloaking Device (4)

"Omega Leader" (26) - TIE/FO Fighter

Juke (2), Comm Relay (3)

"Backdraft" (31) - TIE/SF Fighter

Lone Wolf (2), Collision Detector (0), Sensor Cluster (2), Special Ops Training (0)

Total: 98

I am anticipting the arrival of my first TIE Phantom, and this is the list I want to fly. Thoughts?

Rebel Captive is better than Agent Kallus. Since you have the points, its worth upgrading.

Looks like a lot of fun!

I like revel captive on Phantoms, but I can see how Agent Kallus could be fun and effective too.

I'll try it both ways.

Rebel Captive isn't "better." It fills an entirely different role.

Against certain enemies, it makes them really not want to shoot at you (first). That being said, those same enemies are going to be made scarce® due to Shadowcasters and BMSTs.

As we're going to see a lot of big base, 1-2 buddy lists, I think Agent Kallus is fine, you just need to have a plan in mind when using him.

Personally, I'd drop Sensor Cluster from the SF (it's going to blow up quickly anyways, your other two ships are an absolute pain to hit) and sacrifice a point from the initiative bid to change Agent Kallus to Gunner.

Gunner has some poor matchups in the current meta (namely, VCX and ARCs, because you'll rarely miss them anyway), but is an absolute LIFE SAVER when it triggers.

I'd recommend testing Kallus and Gunner... And I'd recommend avoiding Rebel Captive. It alone isn't worth losing the two point initiative bid.

If you want to keep those two points on the SF, I'd also recommend dropping Sensor Cluster for something like another Fire Control System, the free target lock could lead to you have more than one modified shot in a critical turn.

I don't have either Kallus or Rebel Captive so I usually run Recon Specialist on my Phantoms. Having that extra focus comes in handy when you are shooting early in the round and don't want to worry about saving your only one for defence.

I don't have either Kallus or Rebel Captive so I usually run Recon Specialist on my Phantoms. Having that extra focus comes in handy when you are shooting early in the round and don't want to worry about saving your only one for defence.

This would be a bit redundant with Whisper's pilot ability. Also, Whisper shouldn't be in all that many arcs to begin with.

I don't have either Kallus or Rebel Captive so I usually run Recon Specialist on my Phantoms. Having that extra focus comes in handy when you are shooting early in the round and don't want to worry about saving your only one for defence.

Tactician would be a good substitute for rebel captive IMO. For a Kallus substitute maybe intel agent because since the decloak happens at the same time you can choose the order, so look before you decloak. Unless I have that timing incorrect.

I don't have either Kallus or Rebel Captive so I usually run Recon Specialist on my Phantoms. Having that extra focus comes in handy when you are shooting early in the round and don't want to worry about saving your only one for defence.

This would be a bit redundant with Whisper's pilot ability. Also, Whisper shouldn't be in all that many arcs to begin with.

Wasn't even thinking about Whisper, you are right. I usually run Echo just because she is so much fun with that curved decloak.

Rebel Captive actually wins you certain matchups. Kallus is okay. It certainly is helpful, but it can't single-handedly win you a game like the captive can. If you have the time, its best to try them both for a few games to see the differences.

Kallus is good because you can often take evade as your action (whisper's preferred choice unless barrel roll is needed), but Rebel Captive has more impact than just a stress token----it can force your opponent to make a hard choice, sometimes resulting in a piloting error, or at the very least, giving you more opportunities to out-position your foe. Anything that affects position on the board tends to have a big impact on the outcome of the match---hence why rebel captive is potentially more powerful.

Rebel Captive actually wins you certain matchups. Kallus is okay. It certainly is helpful, but it can't single-handedly win you a game like the captive can. If you have the time, its best to try them both for a few games to see the differences.

Kallus is good because you can often take evade as your action (whisper's preferred choice unless barrel roll is needed), but Rebel Captive has more impact than just a stress token----it can force your opponent to make a hard choice, sometimes resulting in a piloting error, or at the very least, giving you more opportunities to out-position your foe. Anything that affects position on the board tends to have a big impact on the outcome of the match---hence why rebel captive is potentially more powerful.

But it has more bad matchups in the current meta. There are plenty of lists that don't worry about a single stress, and more and more ships and shed stress and stay in the fight at the same time.

In the era of Super Soontir, I agree, Reb Cap was fantastic. In the error of Defenders, especially rocking Twin Ion Engine MK IIs (which most will, thanks to Ventress), Reb Cap isn't much of a threat.

Sure, there will still be match-ups its strong against... But I don't think they're the most popular lists on tables right now.

Sure, there will still be match-ups its strong against... But I don't think they're the most popular lists on tables right now.

Let's take a look:

Palp + Defenders (where Ryad has PTL and Vessery cannot afford Mk 2 engine due to list being 100 points already)

Dengaroo (Manaroo has PTL)

Triple Torpedo Scouts (all have Over-clocked R4s)

Soontir or other phantoms (no explanation needed!)

Fenn Rau (ditto)

Asajj Ventress (PTL)

IG88s (hate stress, period!)

Norra Wexley (oh look, another PTL junkie!)

So seems to me like Rebel Captive is pretty great against popular lists right now...

I took the Rebel Captive variant of this list for a spin and had a blast!

Sure, there will still be match-ups its strong against... But I don't think they're the most popular lists on tables right now.

Let's take a look:

Palp + Defenders (where Ryad has PTL and Vessery cannot afford Mk 2 engine due to list being 100 points already)

Dengaroo (Manaroo has PTL)

Triple Torpedo Scouts (all have Over-clocked R4s)

Soontir or other phantoms (no explanation needed!)

Fenn Rau (ditto)

Asajj Ventress (PTL)

IG88s (hate stress, period!)

Norra Wexley (oh look, another PTL junkie!)

So seems to me like Rebel Captive is pretty great against popular lists right now...

1. Ryad can forgo PTL and still have plenty of actions to hurt the Phantom. Ryad's real weakness here is low PS, so that Phantom will be all sorts of tokened. Reb Cap is excessive. Vessery truthfully doesn't like it, no arguments there! But Kallus marking Vessery can be a huge boon.

2. Manaroo is rarely/never in combat. If it's at that point in the game, they've already just about lost. Dengar LOVES all the extra stress he gets to show of. Kallus is the OBVIOUS choice in this matchup, and is one of the best reasons for him in the current meta (opinion).

3. Triple Torp Scouts - Whisper's probably already dead if she's in enough arcs, not sure it matters here. And one extra stress on a single Scout (probably their Bumpmaster), isn't going to win you the game. Kallus isn't much better here, though, other than to pick on a specific Scout (based on torpedo or crew).

4. Soontir hates it, yep. I haven't flown against a competitive Soontir in months, but YMMV. Other Phantoms aren't fans, but that's another rare ship you're prepping for. And those lists generally don't have too many other ships, meaning Kallus is still viable.

5. Depends. If he's got Man backing him up, not really. If he's running Fearless, it's also not that bad (and, again, an example of where Kallus could be better, PTL or not).

6. PTL Assaj is low enough PS that it depends on which list you're facing. And, again, that's a ship that doesn't live and die by its extra actions, so they could forgo PTL. And it's an expensive ship, meaning Kallus is still effective...

7. Yeah, def. I can't remember the last time I flew against competitive Brobots, though I guess you'll see some for the IG crew interactions (and it has been paired favorably with Shadowcasters, so maybe you'll see more... but that's still a two ship list, meaning Kallus is viable).

8. Yeah, that's actually a solid way to neuter her nonsense, I guess, but we'll see if she's more popular than the StressMule.

Again, compared specifically to Kallus and in the current meta, I really don't think Reb Cap is better at all, barring very specific matchups/ships.

I agree that Reb Cap does have the bonus of causing newer players to make mistakes. Vets, though, really shouldn't even stutter with it, even with poor matchups.

But maybe it's heavily area dependent. Like I said, I haven't seen a Soontir in ages.

Ships with PTL can indeed not use it to avoid being double stressed from captive----but that's part of the reason why its so good on Whisper. She's a 4/5 attack dice ship with FCS, so you decrease your defensive options at your own risk against her. Alternatively, not using two actions for re-positioning risks not being able to get her in arc (which means she is safe to focus, and therefore packing TL + F on her shot).

Against Dengaroo, it is absolute folly to fly a phantom at Dengar while Manaroo is still alive. You might as well concede and save yourself the humiliation of watching your phantom get obliterated. Kallus does not help enough (speaking from experience here, and not just my own----I've seen it tried a few times by different players). Nope, the key to winning that matchup is having Whisper take out Manaroo and distracting Dengar with the rest of your list (and Whisper can hunt down Manaroo quite well thanks to the decloak move).

So your comments lead me to believe you have not actually tried rebel captive on a phantom. In which case, I don't understand why you are recommending for or against it if you've never actually used it?

I have used both, and I think both are good, but in all honesty, captive is a bit better (also 1 point more, so makes sense). So if you can't afford captive due to point constraints, then sure, take Kallus. Its not bad. Otherwise, there's no reason not to take rebel captive...