IA is a great game. I think more people play it at home than at stores though.

That is true - it doesn't lend itself as well to tournaments (skirmish) as Armada and X-Wing do.

However, that - I think - is still a drag on the game. Tournaments are a motivator for people to get better at a game, and they're also venues at which people meet other fellow players.

It's interesting that we're not also getting 'campaign mode' in Armada.

IA is a great game. I think more people play it at home than at stores though.

My group looked at it, but as you can not play the basic game as the Empire no one has got it.

I had a group that started right after IA launched that played every other week. We had an absolute blast until the beginning of this last summer. But then people moved, the game got a little repetitive, and people stopped making time for it. I haven't played it in probably 4 months.

Don't get me wrong, I personally still LOVE the game, but I have never been interested in playing it in a game store with strangers.

It was always a home game with friends in my mind.

I might be wrong, there might be this whole undiscovered section of the game that I could fall in love with. But I don't have time for competitive IA and Armada and Armada is going to win 150% percent of the time.

I went to the Imperial Assault forum and it's like a bizzaro version of this forum because of the same avatars.

Look Assault's gotten a bajillion articles, they can wait, Armada could use the love.

In my community, Imperial Assault is all but dead. I've been trying to keep it on life support, and I don't own a single IA model.

Is it more successful in your environs?

I think FFG is trying to keep it alive; maybe at our expense.

IA is basically dead at my FLGS. It moves a little bit of product every now and then but there's no meta to speak of and given the X-Wing and Armada stock are both growing, they're likely going to be kicking out the IA section in short order.

Imperial Assault is selling really well and was at its release, supposedly, the best selling release FFG had had to date.

That is true - it doesn't lend itself as well to tournaments (skirmish) as Armada and X-Wing do.

Sure, it doesn't have the number of tournament players that X-Wing does (but how many games can boast of that?) and that makes it a bit tough for the stores to afford the more expensive tournament kits such as Regionals and Nationals, but it still has as decent a scene as Armada around here (The Netherlands, and to my knowledge, several other countries in Northern Europe).

I'm already too deep into X Wing and Armada to afford a 3rd game. But it looks fun.

Imperial Assault is selling really well and was at its release, supposedly, the best selling release FFG had had to date.

That is true - it doesn't lend itself as well to tournaments (skirmish) as Armada and X-Wing do.

Why not? The skirmish game is amazing and the meta is broader and more alive than ever.

Sure, it doesn't have the number of tournament players that X-Wing does (but how many games can boast of that?) and that makes it a bit tough for the stores to afford the more expensive tournament kits such as Regionals and Nationals, but it still has as decent a scene as Armada around here (The Netherlands, and to my knowledge, several other countries in Northern Europe).

I hope that what I'm seeing is just a local phenomenon.

We had two IA tournaments fail due to too few (<4) people showing up. I went to the last one (though I don't consider myself an IA player) just to help the TO get the numbers. Only he and I showed up. We're trying again tomorrow. Currently, there are 4 people (including myself and the same TO) saying that they're going to be there. We'll see. I've got my fingers crossed.

From hearsay, I'm getting that a lot of people don't think the Skirmish mode is as much fun; they prefer the campaign mode. But the campaign mode is harder to organize, however, and so people don't play as much. I think another factor is that the central group of people in my area who got into IA then also got into other games (such as Game of Thrones) and left IA by the wayside.

out of the 3 major game stores in mt area only one carries IA in any numbers and that because the owner plays it at home with his friends

Not to mention the lack of support AND a 25-33℅ price hike (in some cases much higher than that - see the prices for VSD's on Amazon vs pre-summer). It is bad enough for price hikes, worse to have it paired with worse support.

It more that amazon was stop from under cutting the flgs

Not to mention the lack of support AND a 25-33℅ price hike (in some cases much higher than that - see the prices for VSD's on Amazon vs pre-summer). It is bad enough for price hikes, worse to have it paired with worse support.

It more that amazon was stop from under cutting the flgs

Free market?

Internet sellers could sell for less, due to having less overheads, meaning we the customer saw that benefit, in the prices we paid, the market is ever evolving and so are the ways of selling things. FFG under the auspices of "protecting" flgs just saw a net profit jump of 5-10% on what ever % of their total retail revenues were coming in from Internet sellers, taking the saving from the customer and putting it into their own pockets.

Not to mention the lack of support AND a 25-33℅ price hike (in some cases much higher than that - see the prices for VSD's on Amazon vs pre-summer). It is bad enough for price hikes, worse to have it paired with worse support.

It more that amazon was stop from under cutting the flgs

Free market?

Internet sellers could sell for less, due to having less overheads, meaning we the customer saw that benefit, in the prices we paid, the market is ever evolving and so are the ways of selling things. FFG under the auspices of "protecting" flgs just saw a net profit jump of 5-10% on what ever % of their total retail revenues were coming in from Internet sellers, taking the saving from the customer and putting it into their own pockets.

Free market, as in, the producer is free to attach whatever strings they want when selling their products to middlemen. Free market, as in, if you as the consumer don't like it, you're free to adjust your business with them accordingly.

Keep in mind that FFG is under no obligation to sell their products to anyone, at all--much less at wholesale prices to online retailers. The choices for online stores have merely shifted from "buy wholesale and sell at less than retail" to "buy wholesale and sell at retail, or buy retail and sell at retail++".

All FFG has done is incentivize behavior.

FFG's assessment is that brick and mortar sales are more advantageous to their business model, and are thus trying to incentivize their customers in that direction. I happen to agree with their assessment, but that's kind of irrelevant to the discussion. There's nothing immoral, unethical, or unprincipled about this move. Those who were already supporting their FLGS's have, on the whole, seen zero price impact. Those who weren't are now more strongly incentivized to do so.

All that said... Can we shift our unethical corporate boob accusations back in the direction they should be pointed? Where. The sh1t. Is the FAQ.*

_{This kvetch brought to you by CaribbeanNinja.}

Whenever we get this kind of crybaby nonsense I'm always reminded of a salesman friend of mine who liked to say "when people get paid, they're capitalists, but when people are asked to pay, they're socialists." He always said it with a smile and a wink, but deep down it bugged him that he was frequently vilified for asking customers for profit on automobile sales when the customers were able to afford an automobile due to the profits their businesses generated in order to pay them.

FFG can use whatever business model it likes. If it offends you terribly, your only meaningful choice is to continue purchasing products from them or to cease doing so. I agree with FFG's conclusion that FLGS locations create an physical space for their games to get demoed, played, and (hopefully) survive long-term in an organized community rather than one guy's basement. It's in their long-term interests to promote those locations as much as they can and the only stick they've got is the almighty dollar. Back when I played Warmachine, it was rare to find people willing to buy minis from the store for MSRP, but it certainly wasn't difficult to find plenty of nerds showing up to play Warmachine on the stores' tables, often with minis they bought online for 30-40% off. Game stores cannot keep the lights on when that practice becomes widespread. Hence why I have minimal sympathy for the complaints about online prices going up.

As an addendum to Snipafist's above comment, players should look at what happened when Games Workshop started heavily promoting online sales of Warhammer 40k (through their own webstore) with discounts and exclusive products. The effect on many local FLGS that relied on Games Workshop sales was absolutely devastating. Many stores now purchase products at minimally mandated levels to continue doing business with GW, or have stopped stocking products altogether. Major gaming conventions including Adepticon, NoVa Open, WarGamesCon, and the Bay Area Open have been scaling back their Warhammer presence and sharply increasing the presence of games like X-Wing, Armada, and Warmachine over the last 2-3 years. It also marked a period of extreme contraction in the size of the business, with even GW's own local stores closing in droves around the US and the UK.

Compare to the mid through late 2000s and you'll see that it was almost entirely built on local brick and mortar stores where players and hobbyists could gather together. That trend continues through nearly every successful collectible game you can identify from Dungeons and Dragons through X-Wing: games actively promoted and played in physical stores do infinitely better than those sold primarily online.

So every time someone tells me that a game failed because it got too expensive "online" I can say with almost no hesitation that it would have done better if the online market had not been a factor and players had to directly support their neighborhood store to maintain availability.

Not to mention the lack of support AND a 25-33℅ price hike (in some cases much higher than that - see the prices for VSD's on Amazon vs pre-summer). It is bad enough for price hikes, worse to have it paired with worse support.

It more that amazon was stop from under cutting the flgs

Free market?

Internet sellers could sell for less, due to having less overheads, meaning we the customer saw that benefit, in the prices we paid, the market is ever evolving and so are the ways of selling things. FFG under the auspices of "protecting" flgs just saw a net profit jump of 5-10% on what ever % of their total retail revenues were coming in from Internet sellers, taking the saving from the customer and putting it into their own pockets.

Free market, as in, the producer is free to attach whatever strings they want when selling their products to middlemen. Free market, as in, if you as the consumer don't like it, you're free to adjust your business with them accordingly.

Keep in mind that FFG is under no obligation to sell their products to anyone, at all--much less at wholesale prices to online retailers. The choices for online stores have merely shifted from "buy wholesale and sell at less than retail" to "buy wholesale and sell at retail, or buy retail and sell at retail++".

All FFG has done is incentivize behavior.

FFG's assessment is that brick and mortar sales are more advantageous to their business model, and are thus trying to incentivize their customers in that direction. I happen to agree with their assessment, but that's kind of irrelevant to the discussion. There's nothing immoral, unethical, or unprincipled about this move. Those who were already supporting their FLGS's have, on the whole, seen zero price impact. Those who weren't are now more strongly incentivized to do so.

All that said... Can we shift our unethical corporate boob accusations back in the direction they should be pointed? Where. The sh1t. Is the FAQ.*

_{This kvetch brought to you by CaribbeanNinja.}

FFG realised they could generate a monumental profit increase, and did so, so stop with all the B*******.

You're right they are a for profit organisation, no one is disputing it, that is entirely the point, they can dictate how and when their product is sold and they have done so, to the detriment of the customers, because they know all the **** apologists will be singing "they did it to help flgs!!" and will continue spending.

And Games Workshop, really?? they are pricing themselves out of business, they are exactly the kind of unscrupulous seller that fell into the "we make the best ****, so we can charge what we like." ethos, forgetting they are making things that cost pence to produce.

No one is crying, I am stating that they did it for their own benefit and no one elses. I have not spent a single penny on a FFG product since I saw that video, and their announcement, and I will not until they decide to change their entire approach, and I am more than content to accept that they might never ever do so, but we live in a world of virtually unlimited choice for entertainment, so much so there are not enough hours in the day to even play things I want to play.

This is how you make businesses change, you stop giving them your money.

You should notify them of your decision, and your reason why. They may experience business downturn, but they may not correlate it to charging a small amount extra through venues that can otherwise sell for a lower amount.

I agree that they altered their pricing for their benefit, but I don't think they did it just because they wanted extra cash now. By preserving LGSs they are effectively investing in their own future business. Game stores are great tools for growing business, because many people get their initial exposure to products this way.

So yes, it was probably self interest (which is fine, that's capitalism, you are acting out of self interest by boycotting) but I doubt it's just because they want to make more cash now. I think it's about investing in a market that helps grow the brand overall.

Who cares if they are forcing online stores to charge more? Who cares if they are making extra money now? Why would anyone think this is bad?

FFG is making more money now, which means they SHOULD be expanding their workforce and production lines. More revenue means they can improve what they have now. Down the road, this potentially will help Armada grow even bigger, which is what we all want. As was already stated, this decision is helping the stores that hold tournaments, the stores we go to play casual games.

No one is crying, I am stating that they did it for their own benefit and no one elses. I have not spent a single penny on a FFG product since I saw that video, and their announcement, and I will not until they decide to change their entire approach, and I am more than content to accept that they might never ever do so, but we live in a world of virtually unlimited choice for entertainment, so much so there are not enough hours in the day to even play things I want to play.

If it bothers you so much, I don't think anyone is going to stop you from leaving. I for one, am spending more money at my LGS because I want them to be successful and I'm asking for more Armada themed events. If you dislike FFG so much, why come and state it besides trying to harm FFGs bottom line. No one wants to hear this kind of "Admiral Nelson" type of negativity.

I, for one, want a faq.

I, for one, want a faq.

The raised prices are going to expedite this.

I am a little surprised that there still isn't much this close to worlds, but I guess I still haven't been too bothered by these little bits and bobs to take notice. None of the examples really got me in a tizzy for being mind breaking paradoxes. So, I was going to try for something clever -flips through a few pages of a little red book- but I got side tracked looking for a joke.

I never did find the punch line I was going for but It sure got bourgeoisy in here and fast, eh? Bit too much of that, not enough organization of the gaming proletariat. Question things, frequently.

*Brought to you by someone who may, or may not, have been priced out of the market in another system and is jaded by the practice and its defenders.

I, for one, want a faq.

The raised prices are going to expedite this.

Clearly... thats why only one guy is working on the faq all alone....

I, for one, want a faq.

The raised prices are going to expedite this.

Clearly... thats why only one guy is working on the faq all alone....

It's so they can pay overtime for his long nights toiling on a piece of paper that will allow our plastic spaceships to utilize their fullest "pew pew" potential.

I, for one, want a faq.

The raised prices are going to expedite this.

Clearly... thats why only one guy is working on the faq all alone....

It's so they can pay overtime for his long nights toiling on a piece of paper that will allow our plastic spaceships to utilize their fullest "pew pew" potential.

Must have missed something , what raised prices?

All the prices here and at my LGS are the same as they have ever been.

As for Amazon, there prices are effected by the demand and their current stock.

So if they have a lot you get a discount if they don't you pay more nuff said.

Now on to FFG, I feel that they are making a mistake diversifying as much as they are.

In a poor economy they are trying to put to few eggs in to many baskets.

This to me is why they only have one Person working on the FAQ.

...

In a poor economy they are trying to put to few eggs in to many baskets.

...

While reference points may differ, it's debatable if we are in a 'poor economy'.

Most of FFG's market will be in the United States, and while public perceptions of the economy might underrate what the economy is really like (not that bad in the United States) consumer confidence is better than average. FFG is clearly a growing company, and it appears to be eating GW's lunch in the process.

I think your assessment of FFG trying to do too much in a shrinking consumer market is in error. They're a growing company in a growing market.

...

In a poor economy they are trying to put to few eggs in to many baskets.

...

While reference points may differ, it's debatable if we are in a 'poor economy'.

Most of FFG's market will be in the United States, and while public perceptions of the economy might underrate what the economy is really like (not that bad in the United States) consumer confidence is better than average. FFG is clearly a growing company, and it appears to be eating GW's lunch in the process.

I think your assessment of FFG trying to do too much in a shrinking consumer market is in error. They're a growing company in a growing market.

I live in Las Vegas, we have high employment few jobs and rising cost.

The casinos have dropped most of their employees to part-time or on call.

my roommate lost his job of 14 years because of lack of work.

Nevada has gotten rid of unemployment renewal because of the high volume.

and I have heard the same things from my friends in Texas, New York, and California

so I don't seen this good economy you speak of.

as for consumer confidence in the latest poll "Oct 7" when asked "Do you think the nation's economy is getting better or getting worse"

totals were worst 52%, better 37%

I, for one, want a faq.

The raised prices are going to expedite this.

Clearly... thats why only one guy is working on the faq all alone....

It's so they can pay overtime for his long nights toiling on a piece of paper that will allow our plastic spaceships to utilize their fullest "pew pew" potential.

Must have missed something , what raised prices?

All the prices here and at my LGS are the same as they have ever been.

As for Amazon, there prices are effected by the demand and their current stock.

So if they have a lot you get a discount if they don't you pay more nuff said.

Now on to FFG, I feel that they are making a mistake diversifying as much as they are.

In a poor economy they are trying to put to few eggs in to many baskets.

This to me is why they only have one Person working on the FAQ.

If you read the entire post, someone said FFG raised prices for online stores to make your local store more competative when they sell FFG products. I am of the impression there is no change in the prices when I buy online. Plus, we don't really know if there is 1 person working on the FAQ. I was merely being sarcastic.

Regardless, the FAQ is long overdue.