1 minute ago, Lyraeus said:

Except everyone in my area seems to believe it is. Think you can convince @shmitty and friends? I can't it seems.

Either way I would say we need an FAQ.

Uh. I never said that. You can deploy squadrons and activate squadrons. That's it.

46 minutes ago, Brikhause said:

I can see it being interpreted this way. If you look at both the FAQ and the card itself. Because it says it can be activated during 'that' squadron command. My understandings of a squadron command is that it is a sequence of the entire command not a single activation.

So 4 squadron commands would allow you to deploy two squadrons with RLB's then activate two squadrons which could be the two you deployed. They are activated during that squadron command. If you choose to activate the squadrons you just deployed during the command then those squadrons may not move only shoot.

Basically, what FFG may be saying is you can deploy a squadron from RLB's, but it counts as one of your ships squadron command activation allotments. The squadron deploys unactivated, but you may spend another squadron allotment to activate it or another squadron.

This is exactly how I see it.

It is as clear as bantha poodoo.

6 minutes ago, CaribbeanNinja said:

This is exactly how I see it.

It is as clear as bantha poodoo.

which makes the FAQ ruling even more confusing that what the card was before.

Honestly, I think this card should be put on hold until someone tries it during Worlds

Regarding RLBs: What the new FAQ explicitly lays out is that DEPLOYING EACH SQUADRON DOES NOT COUNT AS ACTIVATING A SQUADRON. This solves the entire issue. You deploy up to your squadron value after resolving a squadron command, then you may activate squadrons as normal. The squadrons that you deployed may not move during their activation.

Just now, thecactusman17 said:

Regarding RLBs: What the new FAQ explicitly lays out is that DEPLOYING EACH SQUADRON DOES NOT COUNT AS ACTIVATING A SQUADRON. This solves the entire issue. You deploy up to your squadron value after resolving a squadron command, then you may activate squadrons as normal. The squadrons that you deployed may not move during their activation.

It just says they are not activated. It does not state that you don't use those activations that you have normal to place them. The card however does.

2 minutes ago, Lyraeus said:

It just says they are not activated. It does not state that you don't use those activations that you have normal to place them. The card however does.

The card explicitly says you deploy instead of activating a squadron. The FAQ clarifies: deploy up to your squadron value, then activate squadrons. Done. Fixed. Should it be Errata'd? Maybe. But the mechanical interaction is now concrete.

This is EXACTLY what an FAQ is supposed to do, and the FAQ is extremely clear on the intended mechanic.

29 minutes ago, thecactusman17 said:

The card explicitly says you deploy instead of activating a squadron. The FAQ clarifies: deploy up to your squadron value, then activate squadrons. Done. Fixed. Should it be Errata'd? Maybe. But the mechanical interaction is now concrete.

This is EXACTLY what an FAQ is supposed to do, and the FAQ is extremely clear on the intended mechanic.

Yup. Instead of. Now go read the Squadron Command rule and tell me what "Activating" means. Then replace each use of "Activating" with "Place"

Then tell me at what point the Squadron Command can be two things at once with an "instead of" effect?

The crux next. The Faq states you can activate the squadrons but it is not stating that the activation is part of the card effect. It is actually part of the Squadron Command itself and thus means it must follow the rules for Activating squadrons.

3 minutes ago, Lyraeus said:

Yup. Instead of. Now go read the Squadron Command rule and tell me what "Activating" means. Then replace each use of "Activating" with "Place"

Then tell me at what point the Squadron Command can be two things at once with an "instead of" effect?

The crux next. The Faq states you can activate the squadrons but it is not stating that the activation is part of the card effect. It is actually part of the Squadron Command itself and thus means it must follow the rules for Activating squadrons.

The phrase "You may instead" is actually pretty clear that the deployment is NOT an activation, and does not preclude the possibility of activating as normal later.

The mechanical interaction is now explicitly settled. The card is still poorly worded and that's unfortunate, but the FAQ directly lays out how the card works.

Depending on what you mean by Activation. The card replaces that with Places but does not toggle the slider. It is a replacement effect.

Please show me where it says it could not be a replacement effect. Oh and before you spout the FAQ remember that it is just that, a FAQ not an Eratta so the Card still takes precedent. The FAQ just explains.

It is not explicitly settled. We said that after the first Faq of Xi7's guess what happened.

By placing them via the card, triggered from a squad command, and then choosing to activate and attack all with 1 squad command is still in line with what Michael Gernes said at the regionals tournament he judged.

Convincing X people of your opinion does not make you right. What FFG says makes it right. If you have a question, ask FFG.

Otherwise, don't use the card. It's not that great to begin with, and it's clearly not using if you're going to have to fight tooth n nail to play it the way YOU want it to play. ****, I play Armada because it's fun. Not to debate the 100 ways an upgrade can be interpreted. Or if flotillas are so OP they need a nerf. I just want to play the game.

Before the FAQ came out, we were getting back to normal. People were talking about ship builds and things they like to do. For the 3 days of no flotilla talk, it was extremely nice. Now we have RLB residue all over the **** place, with the SAME PEOPLE making the SAME ARGUMENTS in multiple threads.

Good thing it's the weekend and I hope this whole thing blows over.

#endrant

5 minutes ago, Undeadguy said:

By placing them via the card, triggered from a squad command, and then choosing to activate and attack all with 1 squad command is still in line with what Michael Gernes said at the regionals tournament he judged.

Convincing X people of your opinion does not make you right. What FFG says makes it right. If you have a question, ask FFG.

Otherwise, don't use the card. It's not that great to begin with, and it's clearly not using if you're going to have to fight tooth n nail to play it the way YOU want it to play. ****, I play Armada because it's fun. Not to debate the 100 ways an upgrade can be interpreted. Or if flotillas are so OP they need a nerf. I just want to play the game.

Before the FAQ came out, we were getting back to normal. People were talking about ship builds and things they like to do. For the 3 days of no flotilla talk, it was extremely nice. Now we have RLB residue all over the **** place, with the SAME PEOPLE making the SAME ARGUMENTS in multiple threads.

Good thing it's the weekend and I hope this whole thing blows over.

#endrant

Cool story. Remember Xi7's yet?

I havn't said anything about this RLB thing until now. Where is the debate? Place squadrons with squadron command, activate with command while no move possible, shoot if able to do so.

I am more excited about veteran gunners being able to use their accuracies before re-rolling the remainder of the dice.

The relevant half of the card itself read,s and I quote:

"For each squadron you would activate with this command, you may instead place 1 of your set-aside squadrons within distance 1. It cannot move this activation."

"you may instead"

INSTEAD of activating a squadron with the command, place it.

The mechanical issue ALWAYS came from the second half, which indicates that the squadrons are also activated. Except that the first half the the wording did not indicate that the squadrons would be activated.

The FAQ now confirms that you PLACE the squadrons, but that you may still activate squadrons as normal after placing them. This is not mechanically precluded by the card text.

1 minute ago, thecactusman17 said:

The relevant half of the card itself read,s and I quote:

"For each squadron you would activate with this command, you may instead place 1 of your set-aside squadrons within distance 1. It cannot move this activation."

"you may instead"

INSTEAD of activating a squadron with the command, place it.

The mechanical issue ALWAYS came from the second half, which indicates that the squadrons are also activated. Except that the first half the the wording did not indicate that the squadrons would be activated.

The FAQ now confirms that you PLACE the squadrons, but that you may still activate squadrons as normal after placing them. This is not mechanically precluded by the card text.

Lyraeus' point is that the "instead" means placing counts towards the activation count of the squadron command. Placing a squadron = using the squadron command. I'm not saying I agree, I'm still undecided, but that's what he believes.

@thecactusman17 so are you saying that with an ISD I can Place 4 Squadrons (5 with Hanger Bays) then activate 4 (or 5) different squadrons? If I don't activate the first 4(or 5) do I get 8 (or 10)?

1 minute ago, Sybreed said:

Lyraeus' point is that the "instead" means placing counts towards the activation count of the squadron command. Placing a squadron = using the squadron command. I'm not saying I agree, I'm still undecided, but that's what he believes.

Nope. There is no reason to indicate that the "you may instead" counts towards the number of squads you may activate. It's a mess, but the FAQ is a perfectly legitimate interpretation of the card.

10 minutes ago, Sybreed said:

Lyraeus' point is that the "instead" means placing counts towards the activation count of the squadron command. Placing a squadron = using the squadron command. I'm not saying I agree, I'm still undecided, but that's what he believes.

"If you would Activate a squadron" ok, so this part means, if I was going to Activate a squadron I can do something else replacing this.

"with this Command,"

Seems simple enough, this is a command not like Engine Techs then since these interact with each other and not just need it to work. You need it to do things with this effect.

"you may instead

Oh the fun part. Here is the part that tells us we are doing doing something in place if another.

"place"

The thing we do. So this is the thing we do instead of Activating.

This is not a challenge to you @Sybreed, this is a full explanation of what I am looking at. The syntax of the card is important becuase they did not Errata it. If they had made an Eratta this would not be an issue.

15 minutes ago, Lyraeus said:

@thecactusman17 so are you saying that with an ISD I can Place 4 Squadrons (5 with Hanger Bays) then activate 4 (or 5) different squadrons? If I don't activate the first 4(or 5) do I get 8 (or 10)?

Lets say you have an ISD1 with Expanded Hangars and Rapid Launch Bays, as well as Flight Controllers.

The way the card is worded is open to several legitimate interpretations, one of which is the FAQ ruling:

When you reveal and choose to resolve a squadron command, each time you would activate, you may instead take a set-aside squadron and place it on the board.

This was not an activation, nor was it in place of your squadron activation. You had the option to do this instead. The Squadron Command rule STILL SAYS you may activate squadrons up to your squadron value.

You may then use your squadron command to activate squadrons in range as normal. These may or may not include the squadrons that were just placed. Only the squadrons you activate gain the Flight Controllers benefit.

Just so we are clear, the FAQ has changed the order of operations of the card, which is important. When you choose to resolve the Squadron command, you first choose to place squadrons up to your command value, then may activate the squadrons. This change overrides any other card text interpretation. This is why the fact that it is or is not an errata is irrelevant, just like the meaning of X17s changed in regards to Advanced projectors despite no errata to the card text of either upgrade.

2 minutes ago, Lyraeus said:

"If you would Activate a squadron" ok, so this part means, if I was going to Activate a squadron I can do something else replacing this.

"with this Command,"

Seems simple enough, this is a command not like Engine Techs then since these interact with each other and not just need it to work. You need it to do things with this effect.

"you may instead

Oh the fun part. Here is the part that tells us we are doing doing something in place if another.

"place"

The thing we do. So this is the thing we do instead of Activating.

This is not a challenge to you @Sybreed, this is a full explanation of what I am looking at. The syntax of the card is important becuase they did not Errata it. If they had made an Eratta this would not be an issue.

Like I said, I understand what you mean, and I think you might be right. Still, there's a way of saying it without being an ass. I worked 12 hours straight today, and I really did not need that kind of attitude you had earlier.

Just now, Sybreed said:

Like I said, I understand what you mean, and I think you might be right. Still, there's a way of saying it without being an ass. I worked 12 hours straight today, and I really did not need that kind of attitude you had earlier.

You and me both work is exhausting but life requires it.

Besides I am good at setting myself up as the villian. Then if I am wrong everyone thinks it is deserved. It also fits my mentality. I won't quibble. You get my honest opinion and honesty is not always nice

1 minute ago, Lyraeus said:

You and me both work is exhausting but life requires it.

Besides I am good at setting myself up as the villian. Then if I am wrong everyone thinks it is deserved. It also fits my mentality. I won't quibble. You get my honest opinion and honesty is not always nice

Being honest also means you can be respectful

31 minutes ago, Lyraeus said:

Cool story. Remember Xi7's yet?

So if I had 4 set aside squadrons on my ISD, I could use the squadron command to place two squadrons, and activate 2 other squadrons already in play leaving 2 squadrons in reserve still? All the while also activating the 2 squadrons I did place although they can't move? Am I correct here? Essentially what I am asking is I do not have to place all of my set aside squadrons in one command reveal?

I suppose the counter is I can place any or all of them without activating any of them, although it will still use the launching ship's squadron command up at that point. I think the mistake in the wording of the FAQ is the word 'can' be activated vs saying 'are' activated. Maybe not a mistake at all though.

Guys please don't get my sweet rotating-titled soapbox thread locked. I'm having so much fun changing the title as my mood suits...