I honestly am curious what people think. Are these far off? Considering you never see Imp Firesprays and jumpmasters are prominent in scum builds, I assume yes,

basically a moot comparison

you want to compare the full deadeye + plasma torps + extra munitions + g-chips scout to the naked bounty hunter, as the full scout is 32 points

though there's really no comparison there either, as much as an incredibly obvious choice

They're pretty far off.

The only "saving grace" here is that the Contracted Scout only has a 2 dice primary, but it's hard to find that comforting after you realize that Deadeye, G-Chips, Extra Munitions and Proton Torpedoes gives it a 4 dice attack in primary arc and the ship still only clocks in at 32pts (1pt cheaper than the Firespray).

It still probably wouldn't be enough if not for that barrel roll, which makes the Jumpmaster an extremely potent blocker in a game where forcing blocks and bumps is tremendously powerful.

Firespray always needed to have a built in barrel roll. I will continue to complain until this problem is remedied.

The missing EPT, torpedo slots, lack of turret, astromech, illicit slot, and crappier dial all make for a much worse ship.

lack of an EPT and the vastly better dial are the main thing.

Statline-wise, they are priced right. +1 attack die and +1 hull, swapped PWT for Aux arc, the firespray is about right over the scout.

But the upgrades are whacked. And the jm5k has a WAY better dial.

Biggest issue i have with the firespray is its upgrades feel limited, both because of ending price for whats available in those slots and the slot itself. Cannons suck unless theyre double-tapping defenders, dirt cheap, or Dash. Missile/torp with title isnt appealing without Deadeye on a low PS ship. Not even going to mention the shenanigans that stupid droid and illicit offers.

Only thing the firespray does that the scout doesnt is it has a bomb slot for anti-tailing fun. Which pales in comparison to what the scout has lol

Oh, and barrelroll. Firespray can be dodged, rather easily at that, but the scout is really hard to dodge without flatout flying right by them. And even then, white sloop.

And the jm5k has a WAY better dial.

It's mostly this, but not just this. When you say dial, you mean maneuverability, and a massive chunk of that is the barrel roll .

Can you imagine a world where the Firespray had come out with the same dial and action bar as the YT-2400 (by which I mean hard-1 turns and a barrel roll). No, you probably can't, because that would have been a game changer and we'd have been seeing Firesprays on tables for years. Can you imagine that kind of mobility on PS9 Kath and PS10 Boba? FFG then chose to give that dial and barrel roll to the ship with a turret, 'cause why not?

As a result, Firesprays are just weird, fat bodied jousters.

Vectored Thrusters should have said "Small Ship or Firespray Only", but FFG didn't think it through enough. I'm still bitter about it.

yeah I'd rather a rolling spray than an improved dial

I've never flown a ship off the table, except for the spray (and I've done so repeatedly)

because they're just too **** stiff and it really hinders their ability to bring their auxiliary arc to bear (whereas the ARC is a small base AND can get b-roll for at least cheap and without eating an important upgrade slot)

they'd still be WAY too expensive even with the roll, but it'd be something

They're pretty far off.

The only "saving grace" here is that the Contracted Scout only has a 2 dice primary, but it's hard to find that comforting after you realize that Deadeye, G-Chips, Extra Munitions and Proton Torpedoes gives it a 4 dice attack in primary arc and the ship still only clocks in at 32pts (1pt cheaper than the Firespray).

It still probably wouldn't be enough if not for that barrel roll, which makes the Jumpmaster an extremely potent blocker in a game where forcing blocks and bumps is tremendously powerful.

Firespray always needed to have a built in barrel roll. I will continue to complain until this problem is remedied.

I just tried to make a PS3 Bounty Hunter with HLC, Rebel Captive, and Long-Range Scanners work the other day. It is solidly tier 2

Running scum Boba Fett with Expert Handling barrel rolls is amazing... except for the part where you receive stress which kills it. I agree, giving Firesprays the barrel roll action would be terrific. The new Shadow Caster has its mobile arc to make it relevant. Firespray needs barrel roll to be relevant!

Firespray is my favorite of all ships. I try to throw out a build with it in there often and I do okay. That being said the Firespray is hard to play and I believe that if they gave it a title card giving it boost using the 2 speed instead of 1 it would drop it right back in the middle of play for both factions. Not to mention it would give it that agile feel it had in the movies

I feel that when I build a list with a Firespray in it that I'm building to loose

So...

EPT

B-roll

Sounds like a new Slave One Title is needed. The ability to fire secondary weapons out the auxilary arc would be nice too. The Junkmaster was a slap in the face to the Bounty Hunter the same way the WSF tea-bagged the ORS.

I feel that when I build a list with a Firespray in it that I'm building to loose

Use the scum versions, 2 points extra buy you: EPT, +2 PS and an illicit slot ;-)

And the scum ones have actually pilots who are solid too.

I feel that when I build a list with a Firespray in it that I'm building to loose

Use the scum versions, 2 points extra buy you: EPT, +2 PS and an illicit slot ;-)

Number of Scum Firesprays I faced in Regional or National games this year: 0

Number of Scum Jumpmasters I faced in Regional or National games this year: 16

Yea, I'd say there pretty far off...

Meta is a thing.

How many K-Bombers did you face. ;-)

They're pretty far off.

The only "saving grace" here is that the Contracted Scout only has a 2 dice primary, but it's hard to find that comforting after you realize that Deadeye, G-Chips, Extra Munitions and Proton Torpedoes gives it a 4 dice attack in primary arc and the ship still only clocks in at 32pts (1pt cheaper than the Firespray).

I think this is peoples gripe with the cost analysis of the new ships. Points are there to give an estimate use cost for a squad. So you would think that a U Boat vs a Naked Firespray should be very close in ability of killing each other. If you gave people the choice, given the cost of the ship you would expect a 50/50 spread of choice of ship. We know that that simply isnt the case. Looking at it from the Rebels point of view, which I am not to familiar with btw, A naked T 65 rookie is 21, a Naked Scout is 25, I think there are massive, well at least issues with the overall introduction of the JM5K.

Meta is a thing.

How many K-Bombers did you face. ;-)

K-Bombers? If you mean K-Wings, I faced three Mirandas. If you mean TIE Bombers, I only faced four.

Obviously meta is a thing, and meta absorbs and regurgitates what works (Jumpmasters) while ignoring what duds (Firesprays). Obviously not everyone just grabs a popular list from the top of the meta, but we can pretty safely assume that the meta does reflect what's top-tier competitive and what's not.

I wonder if FFG will never get Astromechs on scum Firesprays. Getting Unhiged+PTL can be a great fix to the sprays, a lot of green maneuvres, action economy and the rear arc.

Don't know if is possible to the lore :-/

And the scum ones have actually pilots who are solid too.

I've faced quite a few scum firesprays too. The named pilots are damned good (depending on your opponent, of course). Trying to stop Boba Fett with a TIE swarm is a nightmare.

yeah I'd rather a rolling spray than an improved dial

I've never flown a ship off the table, except for the spray (and I've done so repeatedly)

Boba Fett is the one pilot I will happily and regularly fork over points for Expert Handling on. As a high-cost pilot who wants to be up close and personal, Barrel Roll is a godsend - and Expert Handling still leaves the modification slot free for either engine upgrade or countermeasures.

Statline-wise, they are priced right. +1 attack die and +1 hull, swapped PWT for Aux arc, the firespray is about right over the scout.

But the upgrades are whacked. And the jm5k has a WAY better dial.

The Firespray also - wierdly for an agility 2 ship - has Evade. Which is nice if you have the 'spare' action to use on it, but again that'll be limited to elite pilots.

Meta is a thing.

How many K-Bombers did you face. ;-)

K-Bombers? If you mean K-Wings, I faced three Mirandas. If you mean TIE Bombers, I only faced four.

I'm assuming he means K-Wings with Conner-Net and Sabin. One of the most powerful things in the rebel-toolbox, but people only found out about it recently.

I would rather compare the Firespray with the Lancer Pursuit Craft. It looks they have more similarities

The Lancer is a lot, lot faster, though.

I would rather compare the Firespray with the Lancer Pursuit Craft. It looks they have more similarities

Agreed. The two have quite a lot in common, but the Firespray again suffers by comparison. The Lancer is faster, and the mobile arc more flexible than the Firespray's fixed rear arc. The double Illicit slot of the Lancer seems generally more useful than the bomb, missile, or cannon slots on the Firespray as well (if only because none of the secondary weapons work from its auxiliary arc).

That said, the named pilots for both ships are more usefully comparable. Scum Boba and Kath both have very solid abilities, and Asajj and Ketsu are both strong.

Meta is a thing.

How many K-Bombers did you face. ;-)

K-Bombers? If you mean K-Wings, I faced three Mirandas. If you mean TIE Bombers, I only faced four.

I'm assuming he means K-Wings with Conner-Net and Sabin. One of the most powerful things in the rebel-toolbox, but people only found out about it recently.

Recently? A guy I know was tweaking a Dash-Miranda build with Sabine and Conner on Miranda back before Regionals (we're talking pre-May). He flew it a ton, but ultimately decided it wasn't reliable enough for Regionals. I did actually face one Miranda+Conner+Sabine at Gencon out of the three K-Wings I faced.

So yea, it's a thing, though not sure it's a terribly recently discovered thing...

Pretty sure Firesprays suffer the same as the T-65. In the early days of the game if you could fit 5 T-65s in a list with Astromechs (18 pts) they would have probably been overpowered. Same goes for Firesprays I'm pretty sure. If you could have had 3 of them with a crew, missile, or cannon for 100pts they'd just win. Today they are sad sad remnants. I still fly one every now and again and usually surprise folks with it but I'm always forcing it work or pulling tricks or my opponents just are familiar with them. It usually only works 1-2 times though.

I'd say the firespray is at least 2pts overcosted and maybe up to 4 (check out new defenders) and the Jumpmaster about 2 too cheap. 1-2pts might not be too bad but when you're talking 4-6pts you can see where this is going.

T65s can still do work though, firesprays kinda cant. I agree with fickle that firesprays are just too stiff to really do anything. Lack of a 1hard means this thing has to move pretty quick to get a proper turn to bring its arcs to bare, but then hes probably range2-3.

Probably the best i ever fixed this issue was EU + Daredevil, but then i got no mods lol. So while i was able to get a lot of range1 shots easily, i couldnt hit the broadside of a barn.

Kinda surprised the Scum rerelease didnt include a title to give it a Sensor slot, since that wasnt a thing back then and obviously Boba would have some pretty advanced tracking technology on there, so wheres the sensors? Would have been way better than 3 bombs lol