What still needs a fix?

By Cubanboy, in X-Wing

The number if ships which need across the board "fixes" are VERY few. Maybe one, two at most.

The number og ships which could do with a few more pilots, options or situational buffs is a bit more extensive.

Take the StarViper for example. Guri and Xizor are perfectly servicable pilots, especially in conjunction with the title and some of the Scum only upgrades. The generics in the other hand could do with some help.

The Kihraxz is in the opposite spot; the generics are great, the named pilots, not so much.

Corran Horn is awesome, Etahn rocks in Epic, Knave Squadron and Blackmoon Squadron are handicapped by their price.

Dash rocks; Wild Space Fringer does not.

So, when it comes to balancing generic pilots and named pilots, you're looking at very delicate work.

with Integrated, the T-65 is at the same efficiency as the B-Wing

Apparently not. This is supposedly one of those bits of persistent misinformation.

According to whom? The last I heard of it was directly from MajorJuggler, so if his figures are wrong I'd hardly trust anyone elses. Even if they are wrong, there can't be much in it, to the point that the X-Wing and B-Wing are at least comparable.

The X-wing's problem is that it has nothing going for it. If you take the plastic model off the peg you have a dull dial, the worst action bar in the game, a fairly bog standard statline and no tricks to speak of. It's a dull ship that fails to excel in a single department. When it was new its trick was raw firepower as the only 3 dice primary but it lost that in Wave 2. When constrasted against what exists now it's uninspiring and forgettable. The only reason anyone even tries to use it any more is because of the model on the peg.

Most of the pilots have really cool abilities, some of which become exponentially better with certain droids. A 'dull dial'? What, does every dial need to have some gimmick to be considered for use, any more? The 'worst action bar in the game'? You mean the one it shares with the ARC-170, the HWK-290, the U-Wing, the YT-1300, the Y-Wing, the Z-95, the Lambda shuttle, the VT-49 Decimator, the Kihraxz, and the YV-666?

Also, for the record, my current Wave 9 list is Braylen, Thane, and Wedge - and Wedge is there because his ability is fantastic and he's an absolute terror if ignored; which, given the other two pilots, he frequently is.

Not every ship can be a super special snowflake that has a huge effect on the meta as a whole, and I think people have been spoiled to the point where 'solid' isn't good enough any more.

with Integrated, the T-65 is at the same efficiency as the B-Wing

Apparently not. This is supposedly one of those bits of persistent misinformation.

According to whom? The last I heard of it was directly from MajorJuggler, so if his figures are wrong I'd hardly trust anyone elses. Even if they are wrong, there can't be much in it, to the point that the X-Wing and B-Wing are at least comparable.

The latest models that I have do indeed put the PS2 X-wing (+R2 and IA) at a slightly lower efficiency than the PS2 B-wing. In my very early initial estimates using MathWing v 2.0, I think had the X-wing + R2 IA at roughly the same as the B-wing, but when you factor in the action economy (MathWing v3.0+) the B-wing pulls ahead. The difference is only a few percentage points, but it is enough that high level players like Ron Brannan should also eventually reach the same conclusion through playtesting.

However the relative difference between the two is largely academic at this point, since they both suffer from "the generic effect" that has plagued the game for some time now: both have lower cost efficiency and lower positional capability than the most competitive pilots in the game.

Edited by MajorJuggler

IMO:

X wing (not a "fix" but some astros that pull the generics up a bit, maybe something to add efficiency to the action economy)

K fighter (scum). Same as the x wing. It just needs to be able to do a little more action wise.

Starviper. It's not quite the arc dodger it's not quite a jouster. Two alternative titles to help it do those. This gives you choices.

The syck. If the title was free this wouldn't have a problem imo. It would instantly be good filler.

E wings that aren't Corran. I have no clue how to get this back on tables. Maybe the astro that helps generic x's would help this too. Maybe a title that makes it cheaper if the ps is below 6 (terrible idea thematically)

Things I would like to see:

Some more rebel HWK pilots and some new rebel Y wing pilots. I doubt we'll see the HWK but the Y might get something.

I`d be fine with one viable pilot per ship.

So what is left that needs a fix is the Punisher, the Imperial Firespray, the Starviper and the Scyk.

The Kihruaeifhvphar ("K-Fighter") might get a bit better with Fearlessness and Vectored Thrusters on Cobra. Might be fine, the problem with Scum is that the top tier Scum things were just so good that anything ok seems bad in comparison (Aggressors at Wave 6, TLT at W7 and JM5K at W8 were too good).

The other ships named here (if I didnt forget one) have at least 1 viable pilot, so they dont need a fix, although it would be nice for them to have one.

The Punisher is just too expensive without providing any advantages over normal bombers to be worth it. The system slot doesnt really offer anything aside from Fire Control System, which doesnt work good with Long Range Scanners and since the Punisher cant take Deadeye, you cant launch more torpedoes/missiles than with a bomber.

What I would like to see is it being about a bit more expensive and therefore getting like 3 extra hull/shields. That would make them rather unique as they were reliably able to fire 3 secondaries before dying. The downside would be it being ~37+ points in the cheapest (non-stupid) version.

The I already suggested giving the FIrespray the SLAM action because the Slave 1 was able to have the Hyperdrive manually activated for split seconds. Probably too strong though, it might be able to run away in a too effective way.

Dont know about the other ships.

Tie Punisher is most in need of a fix. It does nothing the bomber can not do better and cheaper, but by the same reasoning the least likely to be fixed. Going to have to be pretty creative to fix it without over powering it and overshadowing the bomber again.

Not too worried about scum. Whether it comes in a epic pack, aces pack, or veterans pack, the fixes will come. It's obvious they need it to some degree. More worried about the FFG logic that thought the Syck was OK upon release???? And two points for the title????

T-65 is next. Another tough one due to Biggs, which means the fix will be offensive oriented. Same with E wings, how do you buff the ship in general without pushing Corran Horn over the edge?

You can fix a lot real quick with X wing 2.0 and recosting a lot of generic ships, but that's a whole nether thread and discussion.

Edited by Shot in the Dark

How about the Rebel and Imperial parties? Could we please get back to Orgina and Amadella?

Whoops, did I just say that?!?!

Fixed it for ya ;)

with Integrated, the T-65 is at the same efficiency as the B-Wing

Apparently not. This is supposedly one of those bits of persistent misinformation.

According to whom? The last I heard of it was directly from MajorJuggler, so if his figures are wrong I'd hardly trust anyone elses. Even if they are wrong, there can't be much in it, to the point that the X-Wing and B-Wing are at least comparable.

The X-wing's problem is that it has nothing going for it. If you take the plastic model off the peg you have a dull dial, the worst action bar in the game, a fairly bog standard statline and no tricks to speak of. It's a dull ship that fails to excel in a single department. When it was new its trick was raw firepower as the only 3 dice primary but it lost that in Wave 2. When constrasted against what exists now it's uninspiring and forgettable. The only reason anyone even tries to use it any more is because of the model on the peg.

Most of the pilots have really cool abilities, some of which become exponentially better with certain droids. A 'dull dial'? What, does every dial need to have some gimmick to be considered for use, any more? The 'worst action bar in the game'? You mean the one it shares with the ARC-170, the HWK-290, the U-Wing, the YT-1300, the Y-Wing, the Z-95, the Lambda shuttle, the VT-49 Decimator, the Kihraxz, and the YV-666?

Also, for the record, my current Wave 9 list is Braylen, Thane, and Wedge - and Wedge is there because his ability is fantastic and he's an absolute terror if ignored; which, given the other two pilots, he frequently is.

Not every ship can be a super special snowflake that has a huge effect on the meta as a whole, and I think people have been spoiled to the point where 'solid' isn't good enough any more.

It may share that bar with a lot of ships but that doesn't stop it from being the worst action bar in the game. The dial is a dull and uninspiring dial, a statline that's not going to excite anyone and no title-based tricks to give it some depth. Most of its pilot abilities amount to simple dice boosts with Biggs and Wes being the only ones that spring to mind with any tactical depth to them and they mostly enable other ships.

None of these are bad things alone: not every ship will have a crazy dial, packed action bar, huge stat efficiency or mechanically entertaining title. The problem isn't that the X-wing doesn't have all of them, it's that it has none of them. Its problem is that in its current state it's a really boring ship that can't do much beyond mindless jousting. Contrast that to the B-wing which has a barrel roll and a dial with a lot of red and green (which makes its maneuver planning more engaging) and there's no draw to the ship outside being the X-wing. If it were some obscure EU ship on that peg instead it'd have been thrown out with the Scyk long ago.

E-Wing title: Prototype. Whenever you take damage you also take a stress token. You may equip Integrated Astromech. Minus 3 pts.

Corran will not want to become multiply stressed or give up his engine upgrade. And this allows 4 knaves to fit in a list while also getting an extra health.

There are many ways to fix ships, this is just one. And mostly so I can fly 4!

How about this?

E-Wing: Synthetic Tibanna Gas: Modification (E-Wing Only): (-3): You may change reroll one attack die. You may only attack once per turn.

The effect on the card can be anything really. It has to be minor as the E-Wing's major issue is how overcosted it is. Big thing is that putting it on Corran nullifies his ability so players have to choose between having a better economy generic PS8 E-Wing pilot or one that has an ability for 3 points more.

TIE Punisher: TIE Interdictor: Title (TIE Punisher only): (2): Gain one (system) on your upgrade bar. You may make 2 modifications to this ship.

Big issue with the Punisher is that it doesn't survive very well to use its munitions. I considered initially stating that you could place an extra EM token for each assigned by the upgrade, but that would just be extra tokens sitting on the ordnance cards when they're destroyed. With a Title like that, you have the option of boosting the survivability of your ship at the cost of putting more points into a pointhog ship. Maybe it can be the Missile Boat we've always dreamed about but will never get?

X-Wings: Rogue Squadron: Title (T-65 X-Wing only): (-10): You may do barrel rolls in lieu of your action phase. After each barrel roll, you may perform an attack and obtain an evade token.

Imperial Raider: Expanded laser batteries: Hardpoint (Imperial Raider only): (0): You may use the targeting arcs on the rear section of your ship to perform a primary attack.

One of the big gripes I have about the Raider in Epic combat is that a crippled back section essentially makes the entire ship into a flying flashlight of firepower. The CR90 suffers no such massive loss of weapons coverage if either of its sections are destroyed. This upgrade would give you the choice of placing it on the front arc and losing Range 1 coverage from other weapons, or placing it on the rear and still losing it if that section is crippled. In any case it at least solves the issue of giving such a large ship a laughably small firing arc. In any case, you also sacrifice potential damage from secondary weapons to get this upgrade.

I think with ships that are nearly balanced, small fixes that also give a negative effect are better for overall balance than straight up band-aids with no downside to them.