I just place asteroids in order to make it very hard for Defenders to k-turn and chose my angle of approach accordingly. The rest seems to all magically fall into place afterwards. I either win or give my opponent a very though match, even with experimental lists.

No offense, but that means you're playing against poor Defender players, as they have the exact same ability to choose the angle of their approach so as to not be as negatively impacted by obstacles...

Yep if your defender opponents are reliant on the k turn then they just Arnt very good.

Tie D X/7 is about as close to the target power level upper limit asymptote as we are ever likely to get. I think they are roughly as perfect as humanly possible. Scouts are a bit over the target limit but not game breakingly so.

So then, since you're the arbiter of game-breaking power limits, let me ask you: What cards/builds do go game-breakingly over the target power level?

They are incredibly good, but they are probably still too new for people to be complaining about quite yet. Everyone is probably just happy they're flying against Imperial fighters other than Soontir right now.

Expect Ryad to become the new Soontir, especially given her increased resiliency to things like Feedback Array, Black Market Slicer Tools, Vader (crew), and other "Ace-Hate" upgrades.

She's kinda like a B-Wing and Soontir Fel had a baby. May the Force be with us all...

Wait, how is Ryad more resistant to Slicer Tools than Fel?

She also tends to push the limit quite a bit, and dies just as fast when sliced... Although she is a lot better when she chooses not to PTL due to that free evade.

Two main reasons:

(1) Even if she has PtL, she can opt to not use it once down to 1 Hull and still get F+E every turn. Once Fel can no longer afford to stress, he's stuck with just a F or E. Ryad can also keep attacking almost every single turn with her 2-5 speed K-Turn option. Fel--who can no longer double-reposition-- will take longer to line up shots at that point so he's doubly vulnerable: only half the defensive tokens and takes far more time lining up shots to kill off the BMST threat(s). Furthermore, at the point Fel has to stop PtL-ing, he has 1 Hull left. At the point Ryad has to stop PtL-ing, she probably has 1 Hull and 3 Shields still left. Quadruple the HP of Fel to help her once she can't PtL anymore.

(2) The good Ryad builds aren't even using PtL, so you've got a ship that has token-stacking and is entirely immune to BMST (unlike Inq or Fel) unless the opponent can deal the stress directly to her (e.g. Assaj, Flechette weaponry, R3A2 (once Smuggling Compartment is out), Tactician, etc.). In these match-ups, Ryad is the best stress-shedder in the game so those stress-control cards have far less effect on her than on most other ships (outside of a Party Bus or Dengar).

and while the free evade is unquestionably powerful, it comes at the expense of maneuverability and it isn't world-shattering if you can deny the ability to stack it with focus

Not to mention it's just a single evade token .

While that makes it reasonably powerful against 2-ship enemy lists...against a swarm? They just shrug their shoulders and 3/4 of their lists pounds into you as if you were flying naked (because by the time they are shooting - you are).

and while the free evade is unquestionably powerful, it comes at the expense of maneuverability and it isn't world-shattering if you can deny the ability to stack it with focus

Not to mention it's just a single evade token .

While that makes it reasonably powerful against 2-ship enemy lists...against a swarm? They just shrug their shoulders and 3/4 of their lists pounds into you as if you were flying naked (because by the time they are shooting - you are).

well, guaranteed damage mitigation is always powerful (provided it's guaranteed...******* r3 astro)

but point taken

i.e, it ain't dengaroo

I would say X7 Defenders are THE ship driving the meta right now.

Here are some factors they create.

• Soontir, Inquisitor, and Jake can't do enough damage to them over 75 minutes
• Jumpmasters can use up their torps just killing one of them
• Swarms can run out of crackshot just killing one of them. Blocks don't stop that evade token.
• auto damage effects are less powerful because of the six hitpoints Defenders have

X7 Defenders truly affect the meta just as much or even more than Jumpmasters. Defenders are cool ships so there is little shade. The Jumpmaster reaction was always overblown. In the end, I'm glad X7 Defenders & Jumpmasters are a healthy part of the meta.

You definitely must have Defender counters in your list these days.

• Ghost with autoblaster
• Twin Laser Turrets
• Dash Rendar with HLC
• Carnor Jax or Old Teroch
• Omega Leader
• Zuckuss crew

Quickdraw is pretty good against x7s as well. She out maneuvers them pretty well, and the extra evade token doesn't do as much when she goes full death blossom.

While local people fell in love with the new Defenders, they're not yet awesome at flying them, so they're far from an issue at this point.

When they came out and just burst in popularity, I put Rexler down and switched to a Bossk Bus, N'Dru and Kavil strike team. It made short work of that specific brand of token stackers. Having flown them quite a bit, it was really easy to read how someone who is not used to them would fly them.

That said, people are learning and improving, so they may yet become a nuisance for many lists. Just another factor to consider in list building.

They look like they're easy mode, but there is still a skill component. A good Defender flyer and a new one don't fly them the same way. That k-turn is a tool, if you abuse it, you become predictable. Or just abuse it until someone thinks you are then switch to hunter-mode. Ships aiming at what they think is a perpetual k-turn Defender are just as predictable as Defenders that k-turn all the time.

I love the Defenders and I'm happy to see them everywhere, they look awesome!

I love the X7 title and the new pilots! I felt I WAS the horror story my last tournament.

I flew The Inquisitor (PTL+V1+AT), Vessery (Juke+X7), and Ryad (Juke+X7).

In 4 games I went 3-1 (single loss was by points and ended on time). Ryad never died and was a total monster. The Inquisitor was targeted first by my opponents and died twice, but helped Vessery land hit after hit. Even without AT, the two Defenders were hard to hit, as I ALWAYS had an evade token on then (if not an evade AND a focus). I've always loved the Defender, but now they are the beasts they always should have been!

The 1-bank is the Defender's second-best move.

I think defenders are pretty balanced now because of the niche they fill. They aren't arc dodgers because most don't have high enough PS along with the ability to boost and barrel roll. They can take some hits due to the focus and evade very turn with x7. However they can be very predictable and can struggle against arc dodgers.

The lack of autothrusters hinders their defenses some. If they could have a free evade, focus, and autothrusters then I could see them being considered OP.

They also are fairly expensive as far as imperial "aces" go.

X7 Defenders gave the Imps a durable ship to tank with that requires you to fly differently then you would with most other ships. I love the high speed aspect of the x7 title, giving Defenders a daredevil vibe. I know some view the x7 title as too much value, but the cost of two slots and the speed limitations, I think the x7 title is a good example of how a fix should be done.

I'm also loving how the pilot who is being called Fel's replacement is PS 5. Ryad is such a fun pilot and makes me hopeful for more low PS pilots who have amazing abilities.

Finally, since no one has mentioned them, I think that TIE/D's are the more potent of the two new titles. Now, you have to invest in them and build around them, unlike an x7 who can a reasonably independent piece of a build. A friend of mine is currently on something like a 15 wins to 1 loss streak with a duel TIE/D list, even mulching Palp defenders. Yeah, Tie/D's aren't as defensive, but that doesn't matter much when the enemy is already dead.

I think defenders are pretty balanced now because of the niche they fill. They aren't arc dodgers because most don't have high enough PS along with the ability to boost and barrel roll. They can take some hits due to the focus and evade very turn with x7. However they can be very predictable and can struggle against arc dodgers.

The lack of autothrusters hinders their defenses some. If they could have a free evade, focus, and autothrusters then I could see them being considered OP.

They also are fairly expensive as far as imperial "aces" go.

Seek out video of the Australian Nationals Finals and you'll see that good defender players have no real problem dealing with arc dodgers.

X7 Defenders gave the Imps a durable ship to tank with that requires you to fly differently then you would with most other ships. I love the high speed aspect of the x7 title, giving Defenders a daredevil vibe. I know some view the x7 title as too much value, but the cost of two slots and the speed limitations, I think the x7 title is a good example of how a fix should be done.

I'm also loving how the pilot who is being called Fel's replacement is PS 5. Ryad is such a fun pilot and makes me hopeful for more low PS pilots who have amazing abilities.

Finally, since no one has mentioned them, I think that TIE/D's are the more potent of the two new titles. Now, you have to invest in them and build around them, unlike an x7 who can a reasonably independent piece of a build. A friend of mine is currently on something like a 15 wins to 1 loss streak with a duel TIE/D list, even mulching Palp defenders. Yeah, Tie/D's aren't as defensive, but that doesn't matter much when the enemy is already dead.

x7 w/ Juke is probably more potent than any /D, in my opinion, because it's got lasting AND punching power.

What's the 15 & 1 list? I wouldn't mind playtesting it some more...

X7 Defenders gave the Imps a durable ship to tank with that requires you to fly differently then you would with most other ships. I love the high speed aspect of the x7 title, giving Defenders a daredevil vibe. I know some view the x7 title as too much value, but the cost of two slots and the speed limitations, I think the x7 title is a good example of how a fix should be done.

I'm also loving how the pilot who is being called Fel's replacement is PS 5. Ryad is such a fun pilot and makes me hopeful for more low PS pilots who have amazing abilities.

Finally, since no one has mentioned them, I think that TIE/D's are the more potent of the two new titles. Now, you have to invest in them and build around them, unlike an x7 who can a reasonably independent piece of a build. A friend of mine is currently on something like a 15 wins to 1 loss streak with a duel TIE/D list, even mulching Palp defenders. Yeah, Tie/D's aren't as defensive, but that doesn't matter much when the enemy is already dead.

x7 w/ Juke is probably more potent than any /D, in my opinion, because it's got lasting AND punching power.

What's the 15 & 1 list? I wouldn't mind playtesting it some more...

That's just not true at all. If you have Predator or Vessery with good TL support, you're just shredding stuff. You get 2 shots, both with some modification if needed, and that's 2 chances for green dice to fail.

X7 Defenders gave the Imps a durable ship to tank with that requires you to fly differently then you would with most other ships. I love the high speed aspect of the x7 title, giving Defenders a daredevil vibe. I know some view the x7 title as too much value, but the cost of two slots and the speed limitations, I think the x7 title is a good example of how a fix should be done.

I'm also loving how the pilot who is being called Fel's replacement is PS 5. Ryad is such a fun pilot and makes me hopeful for more low PS pilots who have amazing abilities.

Finally, since no one has mentioned them, I think that TIE/D's are the more potent of the two new titles. Now, you have to invest in them and build around them, unlike an x7 who can a reasonably independent piece of a build. A friend of mine is currently on something like a 15 wins to 1 loss streak with a duel TIE/D list, even mulching Palp defenders. Yeah, Tie/D's aren't as defensive, but that doesn't matter much when the enemy is already dead.

x7 w/ Juke is probably more potent than any /D, in my opinion, because it's got lasting AND punching power.

What's the 15 & 1 list? I wouldn't mind playtesting it some more...

That's just not true at all. If you have Predator or Vessery with good TL support, you're just shredding stuff. You get 2 shots, both with some modification if needed, and that's 2 chances for green dice to fail.

Backed up with extremely limited defense and only six hit points, which a lot of things on the field can shred through pretty quickly right now... including other x7 Defenders.

I'm not saying /D can't do some serious work, but I wouldn't call them the "most potent," which is what I was commenting on.

If you consider burst damage as the most potent... Then sure. If you consider damage over time, as I do, I'd rather have that evade token.

xD is basically just Vessery since he can reliably hit both attacks, and the cannon shot usually strips a token or two and if it doesnt then hello ion/tractor token.

Ive tried to use xD nonvessery and it always feels like im shortchanging myself. Not because the x7 is superior, but because its mostly unmodded so the extra dice is eh vs the extra defense. Wonder how broken it would be though if Mangler cannons were included.

X7 Defenders gave the Imps a durable ship to tank with that requires you to fly differently then you would with most other ships. I love the high speed aspect of the x7 title, giving Defenders a daredevil vibe. I know some view the x7 title as too much value, but the cost of two slots and the speed limitations, I think the x7 title is a good example of how a fix should be done.

I'm also loving how the pilot who is being called Fel's replacement is PS 5. Ryad is such a fun pilot and makes me hopeful for more low PS pilots who have amazing abilities.

Finally, since no one has mentioned them, I think that TIE/D's are the more potent of the two new titles. Now, you have to invest in them and build around them, unlike an x7 who can a reasonably independent piece of a build. A friend of mine is currently on something like a 15 wins to 1 loss streak with a duel TIE/D list, even mulching Palp defenders. Yeah, Tie/D's aren't as defensive, but that doesn't matter much when the enemy is already dead.

x7 w/ Juke is probably more potent than any /D, in my opinion, because it's got lasting AND punching power.

What's the 15 & 1 list? I wouldn't mind playtesting it some more...

That's just not true at all. If you have Predator or Vessery with good TL support, you're just shredding stuff. You get 2 shots, both with some modification if needed, and that's 2 chances for green dice to fail.

Backed up with extremely limited defense and only six hit points, which a lot of things on the field can shred through pretty quickly right now... including other x7 Defenders.

I'm not saying /D can't do some serious work, but I wouldn't call them the "most potent," which is what I was commenting on.

If you consider burst damage as the most potent... Then sure. If you consider damage over time, as I do, I'd rather have that evade token.

Now, it takes careful planning and isn't as easy to use as x7s, but a properly built and flown TIE/D eats people. Heck, even before this list, most match ups between x7s and TIE/Ds ended in the TIE/D's favor.

The "more potential" line I used is an opinion that I can understand if other people don't agree with, but I did form this opinion by watching TIE/Ds in action. Harder to use, but extremely affective in the right hands.

I think my biggest concern is that it's easier to actively counter/stop a TIE/D in its tracks. Your best blocking efforts against the x7 will still leave them with an evade token (and the ability to activate Juke).

And any list flown by the "best player ever" is going to show some extreme potential. You need to put them in the hands of equal, preferably veteran, players.

But, the rub is, x7 is MUCH easier to fly and do well with, so they're everywhere. And everyone seeing them get beat down while /Ds are eating people aren't taking into account, I think, player skill. Or not enough, anyway.

Statistically, maybe /D has been doing better, on average, because so few people fly them, hah.

And, again, I am NOT saying, in any way, that /D is bad.

Edit: Don't text and attempt to write post, kids.

Like ive said in other threads, the x7 defender is one of the most solid ships out there. Its so self-sufficient and easy to fly you can slap it into any list you got the points for and it'll work

xD requires a list built around it.

Palpatine is too good. I said this before because I knew it intellectually, but having switched from Aggressors to MajorJuggler's Defender list...yeah, Palp is much too good. A range limit is desperately needed, at a minimum.

Jumpmasters remain too good themselves, of course, but it's nice to be running a list that eats them alive.

As Fickle would remind us, bombs (Sabine!) and autoblasters are actually pretty good against Defenders, though. Sure, the autoblaster doesn't seem scary and then Miranda rolls three focuses and your Defender goes from untouched to shields down.

(2) The good Ryad builds aren't even using PtL,

Would you mind expanding on this? Because from where I'm sitting (Ryad, Vessery, Omicron) PTL is mandatory. Allowed Ryad to Focus + Lock every or nearly every turn not only smooths out her offense in a way that Juke or Crack Shot doesn't it also permits her to boost Vessery's offense without compromising her own token stack when she acquires the lock.

In a triple x7 list, sure, I can see not going with PTL. Other than that, though?

Palpatine is too good. I said this before because I knew it intellectually, but having switched from Aggressors to MajorJuggler's Defender list...yeah, Palp is much too good. A range limit is desperately needed, at a minimum.

Jumpmasters remain too good themselves, of course, but it's nice to be running a list that eats them alive.

As Fickle would remind us, bombs (Sabine!) and autoblasters are actually pretty good against Defenders, though. Sure, the autoblaster doesn't seem scary and then Miranda rolls three focuses and your Defender goes from untouched to shields down.

(2) The good Ryad builds aren't even using PtL,

Would you mind expanding on this? Because from where I'm sitting (Ryad, Vessery, Omicron) PTL is mandatory. Allowed Ryad to Focus + Lock every or nearly every turn not only smooths out her offense in a way that Juke or Crack Shot doesn't it also permits her to boost Vessery's offense without compromising her own token stack when she acquires the lock.

In a triple x7 list, sure, I can see not going with PTL. Other than that, though?

They're running her with Lone Wolf and I assume NOT Vessery.

I do not agree that these are the best lists, however, and I think PTL is still the better option, BMST be damned.

Personally i prefer the LW + SD build on Ryad. 37pts and hilariously hard to hurt. Her evasiveness is her offense, and im not just talking raw dice im talking her maneuverability.

Shes arguably worse than OL in a 1on1 situation.

Personally i prefer the LW + SD build on Ryad. 37pts and hilariously hard to hurt. Her evasiveness is her offense, and im not just talking raw dice im talking her maneuverability.

Shes arguably worse than OL in a 1on1 situation.

Nobody is worse than OL in a 1 on 1, you take that back!

The Defender is a bit better balanced than other Imperial Aces, but also more disheartening to fly against. IMO. With Soontir, you have the chance to nail down a block or autoblaster him or whatever and just end his day. But the Defender . . . that thing flies like a sledgehammer. It gets a huge amount of passive benefits that make you wonder why even try sometimes -- like Ryad, with her ability to just go "meh, let's make it a K!" or Vess with his whole "yeah, I bumped, but now I've still got a free evade and target lock" thing.

Soontir is probably stronger, but he never bugged me personally as much as these Defenders do. They're not indestructible or anything, they're just . . . annoying.