So with x7s making a strong showing at world's so far...what are the odds ffg would nerf a fix they just released a few months ago??

That would truly be unprecedented.

So with x7s making a strong showing at world's so far...what are the odds ffg would nerf a fix they just released a few months ago??

That would truly be unprecedented.

well you answered your own question

x7's just Arnt the same level of BS as fat Han and super dash, they don't invalidate entire factions like u boats or define the meta like the phantom.

They are just a really solid heavy fighter.

I'm starting to think the discount *and* the buff were a little too much combined - yes, Defenders were roughly in the ballpark of ~3pts overcosted, but dropping their price by 2 *and* handing out an upgrade that's frankly worth 2-3 points in itself was perhaps a little overkill. Removing the upgrade slots helps prevent it being totally absurd, but it's still not trivial. Had they both been 0pts, I suspect it would have helped the TIE/D look more attractive, too.

Still, what's done is done. The easiest 'fix', should one be needed, would be to require the maneuver to be completed without blocking or hitting obstacles. The question is: While that would allow counter-play, would it actually be *enough*? Hmm.

Forget Palp-defenders. Triple Defenders is the only true viable imperial list. Is it OP? No. It is just better than everything else imperial has, because everything imperial has is very weak (as in tier 2). Everything else rebels has is also weak, besides Ghost, Y's, K's and HotR - Millenium Falcon.

Why?

Scum is OP. There is nothing that comes close to the efficiency of party bus, with a close second by jumpmaster and shadowcaster. And even then, the whole faction reeks of very good ships. The problem in this game is party bus, after jumpmaster's indirect nerf. That, not TIE defender, is the new baseline, which no other ship has been able to beat. If you were to buy every scum ship, only 2 would have been a waste of money, while investing into imperial or rebels nets you close to 90% waste (strictly speaking in the tier 1 competitive sense. I don't care if you win with a tier-2 TIE swarm).

For further proof, watch tomorrow's world championship list. In the imperial side you will see always 2 defenders with the third ship being another defender (most likely) or a palp shuttle (i mean, with so many players playing palp, some may statistically sneak in). In the Rebel's side, you will see Y's, K's and Ghosts mostly. Now, watch Scum's lists. You will see very often a party bus, and then the rest of the ships are varied, and indicative of their power level. Shadowcasters, jumpmasters, Fenn Rau, Y-wings, etc. This means that most scum ships have a high power level that is only matched by "TIE/x7 nerf pleassss", Y-wings, K-wings, Ghosts.

The current tier list looks something like this:

PartyBus > 90% of scum ships > Tie/x7 > Ghost, K-wing, Y-wing > Palpatine > 90% of imperial and rebel ships ever made.

Solution?

FFG's style isn't to dramatically nerf things to the ground. Deadeye is a very conservative change in gaming industry's standard, and a big change in FFG style. The other solution is to bring everyone else to the same power level. That is why we are getting TIE/x7 / Upsilon shuttle and U-wing / Heroes of the Resistance / Ghost, though we would still need some buffs for older ships.

BONUS: The other day i made a little analysis and came to the conclusion that SWX-58 is likely a scum expansion. FFG, we don't really need more scum buffs (but a buff to the starviper and kihraxz will be appreciated, but please not inside a $100 jabba the hut huge ship).

Maybe it is an older era and ffg will focus on disney's starwars. It will be interesting to see the metagame after the highly likely core set from the second movie. But as for now, it is likely that the business model of FFG is: Release a lot of Rebel/Imperials that will appeal to casual players, and release obscure but competitive scum ships that will sale ships that otherwise people wouldn't care about (statistically, of course).

If super aces weren't so hard to kill, I'd agree to nerf the party bus. But it's one of the few reliable ways to break through all those dice, tokens, and modifications that aces (espeically imp aces) have.

Plus the ship can be focus fired down pretty quick with it's 1 agility, and also outflown due to it's blind spot in the rear.

I just wish Rexlar Brath was a thing... but then again, super expensive compared to other ships, and the Pilot ability is.... lacking. The only thing he's got going for him is pilot skill, which you could even bump up to 10 if you wanted, but that's not much to go on a defender. Maybe 36 point Rexlar could squeeze into a palp aces build (actually trigger his ability because you have palpatine, so you shouldn't have to use your focus token as often, in theory) (also build would be X7, mk2 engine, Adaptability) but also at the same time, Rexlar is one of the few defender pilots who would benefit better from the TIE/D title (probably the only one), because the ability to double tap somebody means you are more likely to deal damage cards, especially with tractor beam reducing agility. He also has a screaming need for PTL, so he can re-position and take a focus, if he want's to attempt at using his ability. Combined with the fact that Imperials don't pass off focus tokens quite as well as the rebels and you have 1 overpriced ship.

There's always old Rexlar, coming in at a whopping 44 points, with just his merry self and a HLC, but given the new titles I think this just doesn't cut it anymore. It never really cut it pre veterans anyway, the colonel was two points cheaper and a whole lot better pilot ability gave him the edge.

The ion and primary does as much damage as the HLC, so you pay more to lose out on control with the old build. IonD is better than HLC.

If super aces weren't so hard to kill, I'd agree to nerf the party bus. But it's one of the few reliable ways to break through all those dice, tokens, and modifications that aces (espeically imp aces) have.

Plus the ship can be focus fired down pretty quick with it's 1 agility, and also outflown due to it's blind spot in the rear.

Party Bus also isn't good against anything with 0-1 agility. Ships that aren't in the meta for the most part because they were crept by...hyper-efficient aces!

So, can we please at least wait for the final worlds results before declaring the ship OP?

No seriously the Defender is totally beatable, it has good durability, but its Offense is at best average. This is far from the boogey man squad that U-Boats were!

Empire also always had the favorized squad at worlds every year and only won in 2012 (which does not really count in my book, sorry)

2013 they had Howlrunner swarm. 2nd place

2014 they had Phantom + Miniswarm. 2nd place

2015 they had Palpmobile. Top 4 iirc.

2016 they have Defenders.... we'll see

I dont want defenders to be nerfed so much. They're the perfect ship that plays the game as intended (i.s maneuvering and preducting moves, using your dial as advantage but it has its problems).

I just wish Rexlar Brath was a thing... but then again, super expensive compared to other ships, and the Pilot ability is.... lacking. The only thing he's got going for him is pilot skill, which you could even bump up to 10 if you wanted, but that's not much to go on a defender. Maybe 36 point Rexlar could squeeze into a palp aces build (actually trigger his ability because you have palpatine, so you shouldn't have to use your focus token as often, in theory) (also build would be X7, mk2 engine, Adaptability) but also at the same time, Rexlar is one of the few defender pilots who would benefit better from the TIE/D title (probably the only one), because the ability to double tap somebody means you are more likely to deal damage cards, especially with tractor beam reducing agility. He also has a screaming need for PTL, so he can re-position and take a focus, if he want's to attempt at using his ability. Combined with the fact that Imperials don't pass off focus tokens quite as well as the rebels and you have 1 overpriced ship.

There's always old Rexlar, coming in at a whopping 44 points, with just his merry self and a HLC, but given the new titles I think this just doesn't cut it anymore. It never really cut it pre veterans anyway, the colonel was two points cheaper and a whole lot better pilot ability gave him the edge.

The way to reliably use Rexler it tie shuttle with fleet officer, look up my DD:the augmentation list if you want a solid /D list.

So, can we please at least wait for the final worlds results before declaring the ship OP?

No seriously the Defender is totally beatable, it has good durability, but its Offense is at best average. This is far from the boogey man squad that U-Boats were!

Empire also always had the favorized squad at worlds every year and only won in 2012 (which does not really count in my book, sorry)

2013 they had Howlrunner swarm. 2nd place

2014 they had Phantom + Miniswarm. 2nd place

2015 they had Palpmobile. Top 4 iirc.

2016 they have Defenders.... we'll see

Nathan beat triple defenders with a list involving kath scarlet

if anything, they're underpowered

So, can we please at least wait for the final worlds results before declaring the ship OP?

No seriously the Defender is totally beatable, it has good durability, but its Offense is at best average. This is far from the boogey man squad that U-Boats were!

Empire also always had the favorized squad at worlds every year and only won in 2012 (which does not really count in my book, sorry)

2013 they had Howlrunner swarm. 2nd place

2014 they had Phantom + Miniswarm. 2nd place

2015 they had Palpmobile. Top 4 iirc.

2016 they have Defenders.... we'll see

Nathan beat triple defenders with a list involving kath scarlet

if anything, they're underpowered

He also had a party bus which is a decent hard(ish) counter to defenders, a tlt, and Kath got a couple of lucky range 1's which throws out up to 6 hits with -1 agility. It was a list with a lot of the tools to beat the defenders.

The only real problem I have with them is that the evade token from x7 can't be blocked. I think that's a bit ridiculous, and takes away a very real and necessary counter to flying against them for many lists. That said, the ship did need a fix, it got one, which is better than it not having happened in the first place.

Agreed, I find it a bit cheaty when you discover that the X7 who was blocked after moving 1, or flew into an asteroid or whatever.. still gets a free evade.

They missed a trick and should had said that upon a successful maneuver the ship gets an X7. I suppose there is still time with a new FAQ.

It's no more cheaty than regening a shield from a blocked green move.

Or removing stress from a blocked green move, for that matter.