Now that they have been out a bit and they are top tables almost everywhere, I figured there would be more people posting about them like they are the new contracted scout.

Because there isn't I feel it would be cathartic for us all to hug it out and give our campfire horror story about a TIE Defender (or two) mauling your list, shrugging off all your attacks, blocks and stresses in a dejavu nightmare of K-Turns.

Then, it will bring us closer together as a community as we devise ways to fight these terrors of the night.

They are incredibly good, but they are probably still too new for people to be complaining about quite yet. Everyone is probably just happy they're flying against Imperial fighters other than Soontir right now.

Expect Ryad to become the new Soontir, especially given her increased resiliency to things like Feedback Array, Black Market Slicer Tools, Vader (crew), and other "Ace-Hate" upgrades.

She's kinda like a B-Wing and Soontir Fel had a baby. May the Force be with us all...

They are very good but they are also balanced IMHO as they were so overcosted before. Also, the lack of native Boost prevents Autothruster abuse which means they are not unkillable. They are tough but can be whittled down.

The 2 best pilots are both mid PS as well which helps to keep them in check and means enemy aces with a re-positioning move can hunt them more effectively. Lastly, they are quite predictable as that dial encourages long strafing runs rather than tight turns and knife-fighting.

They did irritate me a month or two ago. I had a tournament match end with a nearly fully healthy IG-88B (PtL, Adv. Sensors, Autothrusters, Glitterstim, title, Mangler Cannon) vs a full health Glaive Sqd with Juke and x/7. I had initiative and had a devil of a time shaking the bugger. I'd shoot and he would spend tokens, he would shoot and maybe get in one damage. It was taking a long time for either ship to die. Eventually the T.O. came by and told us that we had destroyed so much of each other's lists that neither of us could make top four so I conceded and went home.

After that I went back to flying Carnor Jax for a while, he doesn't mind x/7 Defenders too much.

More recently I've been running Old Teroch, who also doesn't worry about x/7 Defenders very much.

unlike contracted scouts, x7 defenders arent overpowered offensively. Defenders dont oneshot you, so if you can predict them well enough (which isnt that hard for a defender) then they arent that big of an issue.

Theyre one of the most solid ships in the game imo, but nowhere near overpowered. I see an x7 on the table and go "ok gotta watch that thing" not "**** I HATE THOSE THINGS OMG STOP USING THOSE CHEESE MONGRELS!"

Autoblaster style weapons and homing missiles seem to be about the only thing that is going to hurt them, everything else puts you in a war of attrition which you will lose on straight dice exchanges.

ION would be great but you are not landing ION shots on a defender without going overboard on your squad.

Conner nets are a thing but you gotta survive long enough to place that and for them to hit it, they might throw you for a loop and do a 3 hard instead of a 4K.

I do wish it was take an evade action and not assign an evade that way they wouldn't still be laughing at you when you bump them, stress them or they land on rocks.

I am just happy they are balanced and people are using them. I have a place in my heart for them and are happy to see them in the rotation.

I do wish it was take an evade action and not assign an evade that way they wouldn't still be laughing at you when you bump them, stress them or they land on rocks.

I agree, the fact that you can't use stress, obstacles, or blocking to deny them the free Evade is a bit obnoxious, as it's something the opponent can't do anything to outplay. It basically makes the X7 like an R2-D2 that triggers on any speed 3, 4, or 5 move instead of on a green (since Evade = Shield for almost all intents and purposes). Except, unlike R2D2, X7 is not unique...and costs -2 points instead of 4 ...and it can trigger on a 3-KTurn, 4-KTurn, or 5-KTurn, and ....

As it stands, we'll see X7 Defenders quickly become the new Imperial Aces, and in about four or five months everyone will hate X7s just as much as they hated "classic Palp Aces" these past few months.

I always pair Vessery with Omega Leader. This means people are FAR more pissed at all the shenanigans Omega Leader gets up to; no one is even remotely mad that Vessery is grabbing an evade even after bumping...

Seriously, people are still surprised about OL's BS. This is humorous to me.

unlike contracted scouts, x7 defenders arent overpowered offensively. Defenders dont oneshot you, so if you can predict them well enough (which isnt that hard for a defender) then they arent that big of an issue.

Theyre one of the most solid ships in the game imo, but nowhere near overpowered. I see an x7 on the table and go "ok gotta watch that thing" not "**** I HATE THOSE THINGS OMG STOP USING THOSE CHEESE MONGRELS!"

I agree with you Vine, mostly. No they are not OP offensively but they can put out a lot of hurt. They are resilient enough on every stateline they they don't fear a range 1 engagement unless it's a blaster but even then he is going to make you pay for it.

My only complaint with them honestly is the assign and take an action part of X7 because I think that does get your feet into the realm of lolEZmode and negate a strong segment of viable builds and tactics with little to no effort.

Like I said, blocking them, stressing them and them flying into rocks has very little effect on them, something not many (any?) ships can say (Dash). While still maintaining probably the best stateline in the game.

They were too expensive before and titles are really cool and well done for the ship. It just argue that it should be a take X action rather than assign. Your action bar gains the evade action, after performing a 3, 4 or 5 speed move you may perform a free evade action.

I always like to hear opposing views and I'm a relatively new player so feel free to argue counterpoints as to why I'm wrong.

Thing is though its not a free evade. You have to be moving pretty fast, which a lot of people screw up when the fight begins. Far too many defender pilots get hooked up in the 4k into 4k into 4k maneuver because they gotta move 3+ to get that evade but they wont have a shot with a 3speed.

its amusing how many people in my area picked up an x7 defender and consistently flew it into rocks, bumped, or went right past their target lol. The better defender pilots know when to not go fast for that evade.

Truth they can bring on the pain, but its only at best 4 damage and usually requires full mods to get that. Scouts also only do 4 damage but its at range3 vs range1 and its insanely unlikely to not get 4 hits with them. Ive had quite a few games where i had a LW + SD + x7 Ryad not do any damage for like 3-4 rounds because i took a focus and kept rolling blanks.

oh, and thats the epitome of annoying is that build right there lol. Its hilarious how much stuff shes dodged with that build.

Coming from someone who's played them before IV and did well with them, There's really no doubt that they've gone from underpriced to overpriced, especially with Palp. I do think without palp they're very competitively balanced (and I'm not saying it's unbeatable -- I have beaten Palp Defenders).

There are tools to deal with them, and it's certainly nice to see something different than we're used to but when they are generally replacing lists that people were already complaining about, there's probably something to that.

imperials have always felt more "fair" to me than torp scouts, simply because torp scout offense will end a game before you can really do anything about it

meanwhile, you can tech for imperial bull with guaranteed damage, and while defenders aren't as fragile they're still very much kill-able within reasonable time limits (just need to deal 2 more damage than normal)

while bull green dice are frustrating, they aren't an occurrence unique to the defender (in fact, playing against two defenders and deathfire, the ******* bomber rolled two naked evades on every roll for a total of 10 canceled damage)

and while the free evade is unquestionably powerful, it comes at the expense of maneuverability and it isn't world-shattering if you can deny the ability to stack it with focus

stress on defenders isn't neutering like stress on interceptors, but it sharply cuts down their effectiveness (just count all the focus results they roll) and they have a hell of a time getting rid of it unless they're ryad

Tie D X/7 is about as close to the target power level upper limit asymptote as we are ever likely to get. I think they are roughly as perfect as humanly possible. Scouts are a bit over the target limit but not game breakingly so.

They are incredibly good, but they are probably still too new for people to be complaining about quite yet. Everyone is probably just happy they're flying against Imperial fighters other than Soontir right now.

Expect Ryad to become the new Soontir, especially given her increased resiliency to things like Feedback Array, Black Market Slicer Tools, Vader (crew), and other "Ace-Hate" upgrades.

She's kinda like a B-Wing and Soontir Fel had a baby. May the Force be with us all...

.....Keyan Fel?

I just place asteroids in order to make it very hard for Defenders to k-turn and chose my angle of approach accordingly. The rest seems to all magically fall into place afterwards. I either win or give my opponent a very though match, even with experimental lists.

Eh, soontir is still considerably harder to hit than Ryad. Then again he is THE hardest ship to hit after all lol. Lets do a comparison:

Soontir Fel 27

PTL (3)

Autos (2)

Stealth Device (3)

Title (0)

Total: 35pts

VS

Countess Ryad 34

Lone Wolf (2)

Stealth Device (3)

x7 Title (-2)

Total: 37pts

Soontir has a more restricted dial due to needing to destress, this is common knowledge. However he has an evade, 2x focus (or 1 if he barrelrolled or boosted), and Autos backup if at range3/out of arc.

Ryad has one hell of a free dial, though limited to straight/k's if stressed. Has only 1 evade if she moved fast, 1 focus (or none if barrelrolled), and no Autos but has LW to potentially make up for that.

Both have 4agi until hit. Ryad, unless she gets lucky as hell, can only reliably dodge 1 nasty hit while Soontir can reliably dodge 2. Focus on high agi rolls is way more potent than evades imo.

The main difference is Ryad has an offensive reroll from LW, letting her hit slightly harder without burning a token, and if she IS hit and loses SD shes still in a much bulkier ship than Soontir and can weather a nasty hit and still be alive while Soontir will probably evaporate the next time hes shot at. Especially since if Soontir takes a hit its usually a random crit, and he has no shields.

Not even going into the PS argument because im in the crowd that Ryad is BETTER at PS5 than she would be at a higher skill, so to me thats not even a comparison.

I just place asteroids in order to make it very hard for Defenders to k-turn and chose my angle of approach accordingly. The rest seems to all magically fall into place afterwards. I either win or give my opponent a very though match, even with experimental lists.

No offense, but that means you're playing against poor Defender players, as they have the exact same ability to choose the angle of their approach so as to not be as negatively impacted by obstacles...

Well they're expensive, but they look great. And you know what, its a fix done properly and I'm all for seeing them on the table.

I bought three Defenders when I started playing the game (I stared between Waves 3 and 4). If it wasn't for that model I probably wouldn't have stuck with XMG at all.

I even flew three Ion Deltas at a tournament, such was my need to use them. It rather predictably went horribly.

So I'd been waiting for a fix for a long time and I can safely say that it was worth the wait.

Ryad Juke X/7 TIE MK II is amazing.

Imp vets is one of the most personally satisfying expansions in a while

Good penance for imp aces...

They are incredibly good, but they are probably still too new for people to be complaining about quite yet. Everyone is probably just happy they're flying against Imperial fighters other than Soontir right now.

Expect Ryad to become the new Soontir, especially given her increased resiliency to things like Feedback Array, Black Market Slicer Tools, Vader (crew), and other "Ace-Hate" upgrades.

She's kinda like a B-Wing and Soontir Fel had a baby. May the Force be with us all...

Wait, how is Ryad more resistant to Slicer Tools than Fel?

She also tends to push the limit quite a bit, and dies just as fast when sliced... Although she is a lot better when she chooses not to PTL due to that free evade.

Ryad doesnt need PTL. In fact shes better without it.

I'd probably say that the x/7 title was slightly more of a fix than they needed. For me the free evade would have been enough without the -2 points reduction.

Although if we start seeing them replace the traditional ships in palp/imperial aces builds, their lower PS might help other PS 6-8s ships without VI see more play which will be nice.

Ps 5 ryad != the new fel

Shes really goid, but shes her own thing. Not so much about arc dodging as full mods all the rime augmented by clever kturns