I've been reading through and nobody else has mentioned this yet, but it bears repeating:

Remember that Huge ships move AFTER all the small and large base ships have moved. So no matter what (unless you've been ionized) you have an opportunity to get out of its way. if you get run over by a Transport, well it's your own dang fault for getting too close to it. Just avoid the area directly in front of it (A Gozanti wth Chiraneau and Engine Boosters can move 6-straight in 1 turn, a little more than range 2) and immediately to its sides (watch out for their butts swinging around) and you'll be just fine.

Actually I do remember. But in my example I was talking about a GR-75 that got behind another Huge ship and kept ramming.

Can you imaging running a GR-75 full speed into an Imperial Raider and taking no additional damage on the GR-75 even from weapons fire?

I agree with Heychadwick, at least pass the critical to the next section for a possibility of damage.

No, because it's not possible to cripple a GR-75. It only has one ship card.

You do actually know the rules you're complaining so ardently about, right?

A corvette and raider are two card epics, so if the fore section is destroyed and it collides with something using it's nose as a battering ram... this is what Heychadwick was commenting about on his podcast. By the rules, no further damage to an already crippled section. I think this was meant as an abstraction to say it's already wrecked and non-functional... though perhaps in a scenario where a collision happens, maybe a crit should have been passed to the aft.

Whatever advantage not being able to take damage from the front gives is far offset by the fact that their likely 100+ point investment just lost almost all of its combat capability.

Losing the fore section of either corvette is a huge loss: it's not something you'd ever do deliberately.

Whatever advantage not being able to take damage from the front gives is far offset by the fact that their likely 100+ point investment just lost almost all of its combat capability.

Agreed. I actually don't have problem with no critical transfers. I worded that last line badly. Personally, I find epic ships fragile enough so no need to further punish the investment to put them on the field. Too many people never will because they think a swarm of ships a 'better investment.'

Of course, then they miss out on the fun.

I've been reading through and nobody else has mentioned this yet, but it bears repeating:

Remember that Huge ships move AFTER all the small and large base ships have moved. So no matter what (unless you've been ionized) you have an opportunity to get out of its way. if you get run over by a Transport, well it's your own dang fault for getting too close to it. Just avoid the area directly in front of it (A Gozanti wth Chiraneau and Engine Boosters can move 6-straight in 1 turn, a little more than range 2) and immediately to its sides (watch out for their butts swinging around) and you'll be just fine.

While the ramming rule is a bit heavy handed when the rammed ship was 60 points, I would agree that for the most part having that happen means you made a significant tactical error.

We had a multiplayer gamewhere the planned 100 point lists had to be upped to 150 in a hurry. I had the CR75 with me, so TO said use it as a flying brick, forget the actions etc.

Did that and aimed it at the nearest concentration of enemy ships, never rammed anything but opponents spent a lot of time shooting the CR75 down and my smaller ships (K, couple of Z's and Biggs, iirc, got a free few turns.

In the FFG RPG the ghost is btw silhouette 5, same as the Gozanti, Vigil and CR90, while speeder bikes are 2, humans are 1, astromechs are 0 and ISDs are 8. Was reason for many discussions there too, because sil 5 is a real big disadvantage for an otherwise awesome ship.

The Ghost is just in general hard to categorize, it just too small for a capital ship, while it is to big to be just another small freighter.

it just too small for a capital ship, while it is to big to be just another small freighter.

Big freighter?

it just too small for a capital ship, while it is to big to be just another small freighter.

Big freighter?

Does not really suite the ship with the kind of mobilty it has for its size. It's the white star of star wars, just instead of 500m, it just 50m in length ;-)

Small Gunship would be kind of fitting:

Speaking of collision rules …

13:32 looks like a perfect example for a GR-75 ramming stuff …

So, i just played my first epic game with rebel transport...

And collision rules for them are bull! Seriously! Decimator for 60 pts? Just ram it with your 40pt transport - and it's gone. Why it's so stupidly overpowered? Getting some damage is nothing, you can destroy entire swarm with random epic ship, i don't think it's how it is suppossed to work - this is support intel ship, not some sort of kamikaze. Just a little rage, cause i probably will never get my friends to play epic again, everyone thinks it's horribly stupid.

If you want to use some custom rules, I think impacts should be treated as an attack.

The "attacker" rolls dice based on size.

Epic Size = 5 dice,

Large Size = 3 dice,

Small Size = 1 dice,

and the "defender" rolls dice equal to their agility.

A Hull upgrade would add 1 die to the attack or defense.

A Shield upgrade would add 1 die to defense roll.

Something like that.

Or if you prefer a system that is more considerate

of all factors, then maybe something more like this...

So after going through the chart math I then looked at some examples and I see this second system can very easily be taken advantage of. A swarm of small ships with hull upgrades could flank and ram an epic ship to destruction in one or two turns of ramming.

So what I would change to balance the damage is that the ramming ship instead

always receives half of the results of each of the columns rounded up.

Not the best system I'm sure, but may someone will be inspired to improve it.

Hmm, I'm a bit skeptical as to your authority on the matter, since I'm confused, on so many levels:

I'm not sure if you feel your passive aggressive comments help get your point across.

Nevertheless I never said I was an authority. I should however refrain from posting things from memory.

I disagree with this thread entirely. Ramming an epic ship into Captain Oicunn is the single most glorious moment in all of X-Wing.

Given the X-Wing rules have no mechanism for displacement there are only two possible options: huge collisions remove the target from the board or huges can be blocked.

eww, charts. Keep them away. KEEP THEM AWAY! i dont want any more GW bullcrap! NO CHARTS!

Collisions are the best part of Epic play.

I have to agree. They're also fairly rare, as AllWingsStandyingBy said, so it's not that much of a bother if you don't like it.

The first few Epic games you play they're all over the place: once you get a feel for how Epics move they become deterrent rather than strategy.

I might house rule that 2 part ships that ram with the broken section will get a crit on the back section.

I might house rule that 2 part ships that ram with the broken section will get a crit on the back section.

To what end? Inexperience is the only thing that makes ramming work.

I disagree. I think once either a Raider or CR-90 gets it's front crippled, it's not that hard to try to ram the enemy ship. I find it especially true if it's the CR-90 going to ram the Raider. The way the Raider flies it wants to approach the enemy and get them in that sweet spot where the 2 arcs overlap. That's a great point for the CR-90 to try to hit it. Or....after the Raider gets the CR-90 in that spot and cripples the front, it has to try to get away.

What I'm saying is that even with experienced players, it's not that easy to disengage after you got in close with the enemy epic. Yes, the more it happens the more people will try to avoid it at all costs, but I still think it's a crummy rule that lets the crippled ship ram away with no repercussions on it's side.

nuff said...

nuff said...

Someone gave me a mission that was about Rebels trying to blow up the bridge of an ISD. Got a map to print out that section of ISD and everything. If a Rebel ship is damaged, it can ram the bridge to do extra damage!

I disagree. I think once either a Raider or CR-90 gets it's front crippled, it's not that hard to try to ram the enemy ship.

It's no different to before it gets crippled.

I find it especially true if it's the CR-90 going to ram the Raider. The way the Raider flies it wants to approach the enemy and get them in that sweet spot where the 2 arcs overlap. That's a great point for the CR-90 to try to hit it. Or....after the Raider gets the CR-90 in that spot and cripples the front, it has to try to get away.

This is all based on the assumption that the Raider is just going to ignore the flaming corvette hurtling towards it. It takes one move to ruin the approach angle and then you won't get a ram lock. You might hit it once and get a crit but then it's going to full speed forward and you probably won't get another shot at it. Add to that the fact that your huge is now probably completely out of position and that ram attempt may have not been the best idea.

There are far more effective ways to singly crit a huge ship. Ramming's price isn't damage alone: it also puts a ship with a lot of positional dependence and very limited repositioning ability in a terrible position. Unless you pull off a ram lock you've probably sacrificed the aft section for one or two crits.

Depending on initiative, it's possible the CR-90 gets to go first and hit the Raider before it moves.

It's also possible that the Raider chooses to do a slow move to get energy back. If it was just in a brawl with the CR-90, it might choose energy to redo shields, which means it could get hit.

Depending on initiative, it's possible the CR-90 gets to go first and hit the Raider before it moves.

It's also possible that the Raider chooses to do a slow move to get energy back. If it was just in a brawl with the CR-90, it might choose energy to redo shields, which means it could get hit.

And why are they this close together front to front in the first place when they both have very long range weapons?

Ramming isn't a single turn affair: it takes multiple turns of setup and that setup is obvious to the other player. It's hard enough to get a ram lock with a purpose built GR-75 maneuvering exclusively for that purpose. The Raider knows what you're up to and it's going to do its utmost to ensure you get very little reward for your hefty investment.

If you don't ram lock then you're going to get at most a free crit for your trouble. In return you've likely put your CR90 in a suboptimal position to make use of the weapons it has left. The opportunity cost of ramming alone is enough to discourage it unless you get a ram lock.

If an ordnance Raider wants to get the CR-90 in the sweet spot of R3 and in both arcs, that's pretty close. You want to be in R3 of the rear arc, which usually means R2 of the front. If the CR-90 is facing the right direction, it's possible to ram the Raider the next turn. Or, get close enough that it can the next turn.

If an ordnance Raider wants to get the CR-90 in the sweet spot of R3 and in both arcs, that's pretty close. You want to be in R3 of the rear arc, which usually means R2 of the front. If the CR-90 is facing the right direction, it's possible to ram the Raider the next turn. Or, get close enough that it can the next turn.

The Raider is going to be maneuvering such as to avoid this as much as possible. As for the CR90, a single hit ram isn't worth the opportunity cost: one crit is not worth throwing your crippled ship out of position: is it going to be more effective than your CR90 fighting and supporting your fleet normally?

The ram lock is the only real threat and the chances of you pulling that off are low.

Having the CR-90 swing towards a Raider isn't a bad move. If your front is crippled, then you can block all incoming fire from the Raider by swinging towards it. It then means you can fire whatever you have in the rear section at the smaller ships around you. How many CR-90's have much in the rear, anyways?