M9-G8 Question

By MenaceNsobriety, in X-Wing

So M9-G8 says when a ship you have locked is attacking you may re-roll one attack die. Does that just mean the ship with your matching red target lock token or can you re-roll one of your own attack dice as well? Technically according to the rule book the ship with the blue target lock token is the one "Locking". I don't like the wording of the card if it's just the Red lock token because it seems to me like it should say "When a ship with a Red target lock token matching this ships token attacks you may force the owner to re-roll one die"

It's just the ship with the red token. It says a ship that you have locked. Locked is defined in the rules as having a matching red token. No need for the card to say that.

Edited by Engine25

I think your summary of what the card says has you confused. Read it again. Pay attention to the exact text.

"When a ship you have locked is attacking, you may choose one attack die. The attacker must reroll that die. You can acquire Target Locks on other friendly ships."

There is no room anywhere in that text for the ship equipped with M9-G8 to reroll its own attack die. The equipped ship may use M9-G8 offensively or defensively, but never to modify its own attacks.

When you have a target lock on a ship are you not "locked" on to them? Thus you are a locked ship and attacking. I know the way most read the card and think it's probably what is intended but I think it's stupid that you can't use it to directly benefit the ship that M9-G8 is on when attacking. Also in the rule book under the target lock action it has in bold the blue token as being locked. I am simply pointing out that it is in my opinion a poorly worded card if going by the core rule book.

When you have a target lock on a ship are you not "locked" on to them? Thus you are a locked ship and attacking. I know the way most read the card and think it's probably what is intended but I think it's stupid that you can't use it to directly benefit the ship that M9-G8 is on when attacking. Also in the rule book under the target lock action it has in bold the blue token as being locked. I am simply pointing out that it is in my opinion a poorly worded card if going by the core rule book.

You could always use your target lock to re roll your attack dice, but then you would lose your lock and M9 would no longer work. Ideally you lock a higher PS than you, make then reroll a hit against you or another friendly target, then use you TL to shoot them if needed.

As others have noted, put him on tarn, TL Miranda, she modifies both tlt shots. If anyone attacks tarn, trigger pilot ability and modify one of their hits.

Also FWIW I think he is a useful astromech but I think it's weird he has no benefit to his own ship while attacking. It would have been cool if they just made it so you could lock any friendly ship including yourself. That way you have one re-roll without spending the lock.

Biggs has a new droid.

When you have a target lock on a ship are you not "locked" on to them? Thus you are a locked ship and attacking. I know the way most read the card and think it's probably what is intended but I think it's stupid that you can't use it to directly benefit the ship that M9-G8 is on when attacking. Also in the rule book under the target lock action it has in bold the blue token as being locked. I am simply pointing out that it is in my opinion a poorly worded card if going by the core rule book.

In the race to twist a nonexistent advantage out M9-G8, you misrepresented the rules for Target Lock and forgot the ever-important "you" rules for card abilities. The ship with the blue token is "the locking ship" and the ship with the red token is "the locked ship." Nowhere in the rules is a ship with the blue token referred to as a locked ship, in bold (as you described) or otherwise. The "you" rules matter in this case because M9-G8 says, "when a ship YOU have locked is attacking." In accordance with target lock rules; you (the ship with M9-G8) will never satisfy the condition for M9-G8 to trigger because "you" cannot target lock yourself.

"You can acquire target locks on other friendly ships."

Can't lock yourself, now if you would play with Manaroo in a rebel's list, she could send that red target lock token to you. But unfortunately Manaroo is scum only, arcs are rebels only and Manaroo is unique in her ability so far.

Also FWIW I think he is a useful astromech but I think it's weird he has no benefit to his own ship while attacking. It would have been cool if they just made it so you could lock any friendly ship including yourself. That way you have one re-roll without spending the lock.

He does have a benefit for his own ship: when you have an enemy locked and they attack you, you can force them to reroll a die.

And then when you attack them, you can spend your lock to reroll ALL of your dice.

I think the OP's question is a clear no.

The more controversial case is locking a friendly ship with Snap Shot. I think the precedent with cards like R7 astro and Omega Leader imply that the source of the modification is all that matters, not who physically rolls a die. So, the combo should work if a ship with M9-G8 locks a friendly Snap Shot Ship (say that three times fast and try not to swear) the Snap Shot Ship should be able to re-roll one die.

I think the OP's question is a clear no. The more controversial case is locking a friendly ship with Snap Shot. I think the precedent with cards like R7 astro and Omega Leader imply that the source of the modification is all that matters, not who physically rolls a die. So, the combo should work if a ship with M9-G8 locks a friendly Snap Shot Ship (say that three times fast and try not to swear) the Snap Shot Ship should be able to re-roll one die.

There is no such implication from the FAQ on Omega Leader. The source of the modification is not relevant. The Rules Reference on page 2 states:

"If a card ability or mission effect uses the word "CANNOT," that effect isnabsolute and cannot be overridden by orher effects."

The FAQ on Omega Leader reinforces this rule:

"Additionally, that ship cannot resolve any abilities that cause "Omega Leader" to reroll his dice (such as R7 Astromech or Elusiveness), as these are abilities that modify dice."

The Snap Shot interaction with M9-G8 is simple: M9-G8 CANNOT modify an attack die rolled as part of Snap Shot on either a friendly or enemy ship.

I think the OP's question is a clear no. The more controversial case is locking a friendly ship with Snap Shot. I think the precedent with cards like R7 astro and Omega Leader imply that the source of the modification is all that matters, not who physically rolls a die. So, the combo should work if a ship with M9-G8 locks a friendly Snap Shot Ship (say that three times fast and try not to swear) the Snap Shot Ship should be able to re-roll one die.

There is no such implication from the FAQ on Omega Leader. The source of the modification is not relevant. The Rules Reference on page 2 states:

"If a card ability or mission effect uses the word "CANNOT," that effect isnabsolute and cannot be overridden by orher effects."

The FAQ on Omega Leader reinforces this rule:

"Additionally, that ship cannot resolve any abilities that cause "Omega Leader" to reroll his dice (such as R7 Astromech or Elusiveness), as these are abilities that modify dice."

The Snap Shot interaction with M9-G8 is simple: M9-G8 CANNOT modify an attack die rolled as part of Snap Shot on either a friendly or enemy ship.

Because cannot overrules all? I can accept that... I think.

The source of the modification is incredibly important as your quoted example with R7 makes clear. Even though the attacker (Omega Leader) is the one that would physically re-roll dice, it doesn't work because the defender (R7) cannot modify dice.

Does Sensor Jammer work against Snap Shot? Seems like it should. That is the defender modifying the attacker's dice. If Sensor Jammer works, M9-G8 on the defender should work as well. And if M9-G8 works on opposing ships with Snap Shot, it could easily be ruled to work on allied ships as well. The "you" on Snap Shot applies to the ship with Snap Shot equipped. The Snap Shot Ship cannot modify its dice but M9-G8?

The rulings for these things were straightforward until Palpatine and Omega Leader caused the definition of "you" to become a bit more muddled.

The source of the dice modification is not relevant because of the word CANNOT. You CANNOT force another ship to break the CANNOT rule.

Sensor Jammer is totally different from M9-G8. Sensor Jammer states: "When defending, you may change 1 of the attacker's (hit) results to a (focus) result. Snap Shot states: "You cannot modify your attack dice..." This brings in the "You" rule again. In the case of Sensor Jammer, "you" the defender are modifying the attacker's dice. M9-G8 forces the attacker to do the modification, which Snap Shot prohibits with a CANNOT.

The Palp/Omega Leader interraction isn't muddled. Palp can modify a die for a ship locked by Omega Leader, as long as that ship is not the ship equipped with Palp.

The source of the dice modification is not relevant because of the word CANNOT. You CANNOT force another ship to break the CANNOT rule.

Sensor Jammer is totally different from M9-G8. Sensor Jammer states: "When defending, you may change 1 of the attacker's (hit) results to a (focus) result. Snap Shot states: "You cannot modify your attack dice..." This brings in the "You" rule again. In the case of Sensor Jammer, "you" the defender are modifying the attacker's dice. M9-G8 forces the attacker to do the modification, which Snap Shot prohibits with a CANNOT.

The Palp/Omega Leader interraction isn't muddled. Palp can modify a die for a ship locked by Omega Leader, as long as that ship is not the ship equipped with Palp.

M9-G8 on defender against Snap Shot?

It's the R7 vs. Omega Leader that is the weird one that is relevant here.

The source of the dice modification is not relevant because of the word CANNOT. You CANNOT force another ship to break the CANNOT rule.

Sensor Jammer is totally different from M9-G8. Sensor Jammer states: "When defending, you may change 1 of the attacker's (hit) results to a (focus) result. Snap Shot states: "You cannot modify your attack dice..." This brings in the "You" rule again. In the case of Sensor Jammer, "you" the defender are modifying the attacker's dice. M9-G8 forces the attacker to do the modification, which Snap Shot prohibits with a CANNOT.

The Palp/Omega Leader interraction isn't muddled. Palp can modify a die for a ship locked by Omega Leader, as long as that ship is not the ship equipped with Palp.

M9-G8 on defender against Snap Shot?

It's the R7 vs. Omega Leader that is the weird one that is relevant here.

The second paragraph contrasts Sensor Jammer versus Snap Shot from M9-G8 versus Snap Shot. Different wording, different rules apply. Again, M9-G8 does not work to modify a Snap Shot attack.

I can see where R7 causes confusion with Omega Leader, but only if you ignore the FAQ. The solution is simple: do what the FAQ says.

We're totally overthinking this one.

Put this astromech on Tarn. As has been said already, this now modifies **** near everything.

When Miranda shoots twice with TLTs, modify both her attacks. If something with a higher PS than Tarn (darn near everybody) shoots at Tarn, move the TL to the attacker and modifier their attack dice, then, you can STILL spend the target lock so that Tarn can modify his own attack dice.

Low PS X-Wings (even if you brought some inferior pilot who wasn't Tarn, for some crazy reason), can still take a Target Lock on the enemy ship, modify the enemy ship's attack die to protect themselves (or a wingmate) and then spend the TL as normal on offense.

The versatility on this baby is amazing. Wanting it to do more (provide free modifications because you want the blue target lock token to equal "being target locked") is pretty greedy.

I think the OP's question is a clear no. The more controversial case is locking a friendly ship with Snap Shot. I think the precedent with cards like R7 astro and Omega Leader imply that the source of the modification is all that matters, not who physically rolls a die. So, the combo should work if a ship with M9-G8 locks a friendly Snap Shot Ship (say that three times fast and try not to swear) the Snap Shot Ship should be able to re-roll one die.

There is no such implication from the FAQ on Omega Leader. The source of the modification is not relevant. The Rules Reference on page 2 states:

"If a card ability or mission effect uses the word "CANNOT," that effect isnabsolute and cannot be overridden by orher effects."

The FAQ on Omega Leader reinforces this rule:

"Additionally, that ship cannot resolve any abilities that cause "Omega Leader" to reroll his dice (such as R7 Astromech or Elusiveness), as these are abilities that modify dice."

The Snap Shot interaction with M9-G8 is simple: M9-G8 CANNOT modify an attack die rolled as part of Snap Shot on either a friendly or enemy ship.

Incorrect, unfortunately, for the same reason that you cannot use Zuckuss to force Omega Leader to reroll his own green dice despite wording that suggests it would be Omega Leader doing the modification. For reference;

"When attacking, you may receive any number of stress tokens to choose an equal number of defense dice. The defender must reroll those dice."

The "you" or the "ship" referred to in these upgrades applies to the source of the modification. M9G8 allows you to reroll on snap shot (assuming it is a ship with M9G8 other than the one taking the snap shot), and allows you to force Omega leader to reroll an attack die assuming Omega Leader isn't attacking the ship with M9G8.

Note the important caveat with Omega Leader. If the ship with M9G8 is target locked by Omega Leader, and Omega Leader is attacking that same ship (because the other restriction with OL is that the ship he has locked must be attacking or defending), then M9G8 cannot be used to force Omega Leader to reroll because it would be both target locked and defending, so it cannot modify dice.

Of course, FFG could always release an errata/FAQ to the contrary but this is the interpretation that is consistent with other related upgrades like Zuckuss and Palpatine.

Edited by KineticOperator

Incorrect, unfortunately, for the same reason that you cannot use Zuckuss to force Omega Leader to reroll his own green dice despite wording that suggests it would be Omega Leader doing the modification. For reference;

"When attacking, you may receive any number of stress tokens to choose an equal number of defense dice. The defender must reroll those dice."

The "you" or the "ship" referred to in these upgrades applies to the source of the modification. M9G8 allows you to reroll on snap shot (assuming it is a ship with M9G8 other than the one taking the snap shot), and allows you to force Omega leader to reroll an attack die assuming Omega Leader isn't attacking the ship with M9G8.

Note the important caveat with Omega Leader. If the ship with M9G8 is target locked by Omega Leader, and Omega Leader is attacking that same ship (because the other restriction with OL is that the ship he has locked must be attacking or defending), then M9G8 cannot be used to force Omega Leader to reroll because it would be both target locked and defending, so it cannot modify dice.

Of course, FFG could always release an errata/FAQ to the contrary but this is the interpretation that is consistent with other related upgrades like Zuckuss and Palpatine.

I agree with everything you said about Omega Leader.

Your second paragraph does not accurately reference the text on M9-G8. "When a ship you have locked is attacking, you may choose 1 attack die. The attacker must reroll that die." It does not say "you" reroll that die. It says the "attacker must reroll that die." While you misquoted the card, I do see the validity of the point you made. The ship with M9-G8 is still the one doing the modification. I retract all previous statements to the contrary and concede to your superior interpretation of the rules.

Incorrect, unfortunately, for the same reason that you cannot use Zuckuss to force Omega Leader to reroll his own green dice despite wording that suggests it would be Omega Leader doing the modification. For reference;

"When attacking, you may receive any number of stress tokens to choose an equal number of defense dice. The defender must reroll those dice."

The "you" or the "ship" referred to in these upgrades applies to the source of the modification. M9G8 allows you to reroll on snap shot (assuming it is a ship with M9G8 other than the one taking the snap shot), and allows you to force Omega leader to reroll an attack die assuming Omega Leader isn't attacking the ship with M9G8.

Note the important caveat with Omega Leader. If the ship with M9G8 is target locked by Omega Leader, and Omega Leader is attacking that same ship (because the other restriction with OL is that the ship he has locked must be attacking or defending), then M9G8 cannot be used to force Omega Leader to reroll because it would be both target locked and defending, so it cannot modify dice.

Of course, FFG could always release an errata/FAQ to the contrary but this is the interpretation that is consistent with other related upgrades like Zuckuss and Palpatine.

I agree with everything you said about Omega Leader.

Your second paragraph does not accurately reference the text on M9-G8. "When a ship you have locked is attacking, you may choose 1 attack die. The attacker must reroll that die." It does not say "you" reroll that die. It says the "attacker must reroll that die." While you misquoted the card, I do see the validity of the point you made. The ship with M9-G8 is still the one doing the modification. I retract all previous statements to the contrary and concede to your superior interpretation of the rules.

Yeah, wasn't trying to quote the card just paraphrase. Fortunately it appears my meaning was clear.

Also, while gracious your concession is to nothing more than what FFG has done so far, lol, not so much a superior interpretation. We all know that could change on a whim, and nothing is quite ever as clear as we would all like it to be. :-)

Edited by KineticOperator