Boba Fett and Hull Upgrade

By flyboymb, in X-Wing Rules Questions

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Can I just throw a spanner in the works and bring up the FAQ entry for the Nashtah Pup?

The Nashtah Pup Pilot cannot be equipped with any Upgrade card. If Bossk is equipped with Hound’s Tooth and either Veteran Instincts or Adaptability, the Nashtah Pup Pilot keeps that modified pilot skill.

It seems we actually do have a precedent for keeping a modified value after the card that modified it has been discarded.

A precedent, albeit a very specific one. In the case of Hound's Tooth/Nashta Pup, you are deploying the same pilot from another ship that was just destroyed. The ruling to keep the altered pilot skill in this case is arbitrary at best. On the other hand, there is a contradictory precedent set by the Tel Trevura FAQ entry:

"If Tel Trevura has the Damaged Cockpit Damage card and is destroyed (for the first time) causing him to return to his normal pilot skill value, if the activation window for his pilot skill has passed, he does not become the active ship during this combat phase."

The Damaged Cockpit Damage card was discarded and its effect on pilot skill ended. Why should an upgrade card be any different?

Sadly, the FAQ is full of weird interactions and contradictions that seem to defy logic. I'd love to sit down with Alex and Frank for a couple of hours and see how many things they agree on. I think that would be a very interesting discussion, and at the very least, it should prove somewhat illuminating.

I agree that once an Upgrade is discarded then any value it affected should revert back to the normal. I was more responding to the "gauntlet of challenge" that Klutz threw down with his statement:

"There simply is no concept of "it changed the printed value, so the effect persists after the card is gone" in X-Wing."

Once again, a quirky entry in the FAQ proves there's always an exception to every argument. :blink:

I don't see the Nashtah Pup example as being a "precedent".

You're just doing what the card says: "You have the pilot skill [...] of the friendly destroyed ship equipped with the Hound's Tooth Upgrade card."

Now, my questions regarding Nashtah Pup would be:

  • If the Bossk suffered a PS=0 crit, does the Nashtah Pup remain at PS 0?
    • I don't think so.
  • If the Bossk had VI, but Boba Fett crew discarded it before the Hound's Tooth died, does the Nashtah Pup keep the +2 PS?
    • I'd argue it doesn't.

When a ship is destroyed, the Rules Reference only says that you "remove it from the play area" (referring to the model, I assume) and "discard all of its Damage cards". So your left with the Bossk ship card, with all associated upgrade cards faceup (unless they were previously discarded) and no damage cards. The Nashtah Pup inherits Bossk's PS, so if VI is still faceup, the Nashtah Pup is PS 9. But, if VI was discarded and is facedown, Nashtah Pup is PS 7.

I didn't mean to bring up an old argument, as this one was thrashed back and forth ages ago, until it finally got FAQ'd. My point was "there's always an exception", even if it is an odd one.

I didn't mean to bring up an old argument, as this one was thrashed back and forth ages ago, until it finally got FAQ'd. My point was "there's always an exception", even if it is an odd one.

This exact topic came up while teaching a buddy who used to play Warhammer a lot about X-Wing and he would ask about a rule and I would say "Yes, unless...." or "Yes, but...." it didn't take him long to figure out that there is an exception to just about all (if not ALL) rules for this game.

I didn't mean to bring up an old argument, as this one was thrashed back and forth ages ago, until it finally got FAQ'd. My point was "there's always an exception", even if it is an odd one.

My point was that the Nashtah Pup example is not an example of "keeping a modified value after the card that modified it has been discarded", since the upgrade cards are not discarded when a ship is destroyed.

The Nashtah Pup is a weird ability, for sure. But I do not think it is relevant to discussion at hand.

Got an answer from Frank.

In response to your rules question:

Rules Question:
Boba Fett (crew) removing upgrades like Veteran Instincts and Hull Upgrade. If someone were to use Boba Fett (crew) to remove an upgrade like Veteran Instincts or Hull Upgrade, would that change the value those upgrades effect? So if T-65 X-Wing had hull upgrade so it had 4 hull, and had 3 damage cards assigned to it, then Boba was used to remove the hull upgrade, would that cause the X-Wing to removed because it now had 3 hull or would it be treated as if it still had 4 hull even with the upgrade gone. Same goes for Veteran Instincts would the PS value go down if that upgrade is removed? The reason I ask is because removing cards like Royal Guard TIE or R2-D6 don't mean the upgrades they allow to be assigned are also removed.

If Boba Fett removed an upgrade that changes ship stats (such as hull value of Pilot Skill), the value is changed. Royal Guard TIE and R2-D6 don’t have any effect since a ship’s upgrade bar only matters at the start of a game, losing or gaining slots during a game has no effect.
Thanks for playing,
Frank Brooks
Associate Creative Content Developer
Fantasy Flight Games
Edited by VanorDM

I'm absolutely positive that wehn upgrade cards that change printed values (eg: VI, Adaptability, Hull Upgrade, Punishing One, Shield Upgrade, Stealth Device, etc) are discarded, their effect is immediately ignored and does not persist.

There simply is no concept of "it changed the printed value, so the effect persists after the card is gone" in X-Wing.

[...] losing upgrade icons during a game has no effect.

I was right! :D