So, why sensor teams? I have always found them to be an exceptionally underwhelming upgrade. It costs you two dice to get one accuracy one time that turn, so it's egregiously inefficient to double arc with, and seriously cuts down on your damage output. It seems like an awful lot of points and effort just to negate the dice that Ackbar is giving you and do another point of damage or so on average. Unless the plan is to only use STs at close range, at which point I'm still wondering if you wouldn't rather buy Ordinance Techs to maximize Black Dice damage.

So, what is it that I'm missing here, because I have a ton of Sensor Teams collecting dust here and I'd like to know if I could actually use them.

They let me one shot the raider with a particularly dodgy roll, leaving the second shot free to cripple/kill demo.

Is there any other combo that lets you do that for cheap?

Look at the lando shot diagram.

Oh! So it's more of a DeMSU answer then! Okay, that makes more sense. Still useful in other fights, but less so than a more generalized approach and far more so than a generalized build would be against DeMSU.

Oh! So it's more of a DeMSU answer then! Okay, that makes more sense. Still useful in other fights, but less so than a more generalized approach and far more so than a generalized build would be against DeMSU.

Sort of.

For the list to work it must have activation advantage and perferably multiple activation advantage. If anyone is even close with activations they must be runnng small ships, mainly DeMSU to be fair but not specifically picking on them. Once the enemy is down to 2 or less activations its easy to kite them to death in a very controlled manner.

I didnt bother to show the rest of the game against CNinj, simply because it was dull. Admo and Lando picked the ISD apart in a calculated way with no allowance for the ISD to respond as it kept getting only CF commands cause of Bright Hope. Multiple ships all over the place are harder to shepherd and control.

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Great discussion thanks for writing it up!

Re: sensor teams.

Ord experts + H9s is much more effective and flexible I would think? Is the sensor team there for cost advantage?

I was waiting for that comment. You could run this list without Ackbar and instead, h9s, oe and Apt.

However,

H9s, Ordnance experts, assault proton torp is 17pts

Sensor teams, enhanced armaments is 15pts

With Ackbar and enhanced armanents the ships are capable of doing some damage at long range.

Which commander are you going to take instead? What do they offer you?

There are other approaches, this is mine.

I'm honestly not a huge fan of APT unless you are going for double-arcs, which of course Ackbar can't do, unless you are trying to split the uprights, but that could be a fairly dangerous proposition. So I can see why you went sensor team.

There are other approaches, this is mine.

This is what I love about this game. To me, MC30's are about using their awesome speed to get in close, stay in close, and jack you up at close range.

I don't use Ackbar because he's almost twice as expensive as Dodonna and I like having more plastic on the table. But, as Gink says, there are multiple approaches. 2 people use the same ship in totally different ways.

And to come full circle,that is what I love about this game.

I would say that absolutely NOTHING except Motti ISD will survive 8-10 unfettered bombers.

FTFY

Not even that over 6 rounds is my point.

You won't realistically get 6 rounds of shooting. 2-4 rounds is more real (afterwards the ship will be out of range/bombers will be uncontrolled etc)

Sooooooo... When are you writing an article on the Spanish Inquisition?

Nooooooooobody expects the Spanish Inquisition.

Another store champ win to their name. Perfect first two rounds including a 473 to 16.

Another store champ win to their name. Perfect first two rounds including a 473 to 16.

Lost the last round though didn't it?

Nah, I can confirm, this is cracking list.

So Gink, do you modify your strategy at all when facing a swarm of Rogues? Like the increasingly common YT-2400 swarm? These squadrons have an advantage in that your fast ships can't move twice in between when they get to move and shoot.

Example 1:

-Non-Rogue squadrons move and shoot fast ship

-Fast ship moves last at Speed 4

-Fast ship moves first next round at Speed 4

-Non-Rogue Squadrons out of range of fast ship

Example 2:

-Fast ship moves last at Speed 4

-Rogues move and shoot fast ship at end of round

-Fast ship moves first at Speed 4

-Rogues move and shoot fast ship at end of round

This makes using the obstacles as cover even more important it seems. Are there any other tricks you use when trying to avoid these swarms?

Yeah..... so thats why I am retiring the fleet.....

Oh come on, don't give up that easily

Oh come on, don't give up that easily

Against all yt2400s, tycho can tie up three at a time which causes problems for the enemy. Splits their squads and makes it harder to focus on a single ship.

Oh come on, don't give up that easily

Against all yt2400s, tycho can tie up three at a time which causes problems for the enemy. Splits their squads and makes it harder to focus on a single ship.

Yeah that's kinda what I had concluded also. It seems like 'most' YT swarms I've seen don't take Intel, so interceptors can tie them up for a turn. If you can time it right, it seems like you can work it:

-Wait for Rogues to jump in and attack Fast ship in Squadron Phase of Round A

-Round B, Interceptors engage Rogues

-Round B, Fast ship moves at Speed 4

-Round B, Rogues shoot Interceptors during Squadron Phase, but most can't move to chase Fast Ship

-Round C, Fast ship moves at Speed 4

-Round C, Rogues are out of move and shoot range of Fast ship during Squadron Phase

Although this would probably require the use of more than just Tycho.

On ‎11‎.‎10‎.‎2016 at 11:06 PM, Ginkapo said:

I have been asked to write an article on how to utilise a single squadron, Tycho, to dodge enemy bomber attacks. Crucial to being able to do this, is the fleet in which Tycho sits, my vassal tourney winning Ackbar Star Destroyers fleet.

-MC30 Scout Frigate – Admiral Ackbar, Foresight

-MC30 Torpedo Frigate – Lando Calrissian, Sensor Teams, Enhanced Armaments

-MC30 Torpedo Frigate – Admonition, Sensor Teams, Enhanced Armaments

-CR90A – Jaina’s Light, Turbolaser Reroute Circuits

-GR75 Medium transport – Bright Hope, Slicer Tools, Phylon Q7 Tractor Beams

This fleet was specifically designed to deal with Demolisher and Rhymer fleets. Able to control Demo with Bright Hope and then one shot (sometimes) with the MC30s. Able to dodge Rhymer whilst tabling the carriers fast.

Admittedly, since the introduction of fighter coordination teams, flight commander and bomber command centres, I am no longer so confident in this lists ability to keep up.

Hey Ginkapo, what about one year later? With the new waves and lists, how do you see this list performing nowadays?

Inspired by Ginkapo, I've played a minor variation on this ship's configuration, albeit in a different overall list:

• Scout Frigate
• TRC
• External Racks
• Sensor Team

It's a pinch more expensive than the standard Ackbar ISD-I, but it packs one heckva wallop with 5 black, 4 red, and tons of dice control. The Scout and TRC upgrades together only cost 3 points more than enhanced armament, but provides much more damage since the TRC has pretty good odds to be flipping a blank to a double-hit on four red dice. If you're lucky enough to pop a natural accuracy on the initial roll, then you can completely shut down the defense tokens on many different types of ships, since the Sensor Team can get you a second one. You've got very good odds of drawing at least one blank on the 5 black dice to help power up the sensor team, too. While it doesn't necessarily one-shot flotilla's at long range, its just as effective as H9's at short range and will reliably wound them at long.

Also, since all of the upgrades are only once per turn (or less, for the external racks), this ship synergies with Ackbar's ability quite strongly. On average, its a bit less powerful than the H8+APT+OE in a double-arc situation. But it compensates by being more flexible since it only needs the single super-wide side arc to be effective.

That is very interesting, thank you @jbrandmeyer !

What about your squadrons?

@Ginkapo

I'll second the Scout/TRC/Sensor combo. I ran that in the immediate wake of Ginkapo's list back in wave-2 and was contemplating taking that instead of my more familiar Rieekan death pickle to the wave 2 GenCon. Despite the lack of rerolls, you generally have enough dice mods to make all the blanks go away and enough overall dice that the remaining ones should have a pretty good showing.

My sense is that any kind of MC30 activation spam list has always been a thing, though the ones that I've seen most prominently have centered on Mothma. There's still probably room in the meta somewhere for an Ackbar style list of this type.

I love Ackbar Scouts in CC.... but that is about the limit of where I have seen them played them in a 2017 meta environment.

Nice necro though!

On 06/11/2017 at 11:24 AM, Ritalbringer said:

Hey Ginkapo, what about one year later? With the new waves and lists, how do you see this list performing nowadays?

I have not been responding as this required a considered response, rather than quippy one liners.

The idea of an Ackbar Star Destroyer is as valid as it ever has been as JBrandMeyer states. It was a very simple concept, quantity is a quality all of its own, if you can roll a lot of dice, ensure an accuracy, then you are going to hurt your target. This hasnt changed, if anything it has become more potent with the amount of flotillas out there, although as always ECM is a bane for this list.

The overall list though, is not what it once was as times have changed. When it began the following were true:

Intel was not prevalent in non bomber lists.
Bomber lists required a healthy amount of escort/anti fighter to protect them.
4 activations was normal.
There were 12 Objectives. Notably, 4 red objectives and Contested Outpost usually paired with Precision Strike.

Tycho can no longer do very much on his own as he will struggle against intel. You can either go without, and then you get a list similar to @Ardaedhel's Mothma MC30s. Or you can pair Tycho with his new buddy Shara and wreck all that way, but alas cost.

It is no longer acceptable to have a flagship costing quite so much with limited firepower. Foresight was incredible for protecting Ackbar, but these days it would need to contribute much more at close range, or be switched out for Jaina's Light and another GR75.

The concept is completely valid. This specific list is not. One day I may revisit, but for now there are many other things to try out.

My conudrum for now is how to make Ketsu work. In theory she can control enemy intel units which is an incredible skill, but how to leverage this is a much harder question. I think it links back to this list though, as leveraging Tycho to distract entire enemy squadron wings was key. Ketsu may with some help be able to do similar.

Something more like this:

Wave VI Ackbar Star Destroyers
Author: Ginkapo

Faction: Rebel Alliance
Points: 396/400

Commander: Admiral Ackbar

Assault Objective: Opening Salvo
Defense Objective: Hyperspace Assault
Navigation Objective: Solar Corona

[ flagship ] CR90 Corvette A (44 points)
- Admiral Ackbar ( 38 points)
- Jainas Light ( 2 points)
- Reinforced Blast Doors ( 5 points)
- Turbolaser Reroute Circuits ( 7 points)
= 96 total ship cost

MC30c Scout Frigate (69 points)
- Admonition ( 8 points)
- Sensor Team ( 5 points)
- Reinforced Blast Doors ( 5 points)
- Dual Turbolaser Turrets ( 5 points)
- External Racks ( 3 points)
= 95 total ship cost

MC30c Scout Frigate (69 points)
- Sensor Team ( 5 points)
- Dual Turbolaser Turrets ( 5 points)
- External Racks ( 3 points)
= 82 total ship cost

CR90 Corvette B (39 points)
- Engine Techs ( 8 points)
- Reinforced Blast Doors ( 5 points)
= 52 total ship cost

GR-75 Medium Transports (18 points)
- Bright Hope ( 2 points)
- Toryn Farr ( 7 points)
- Phylon Q7 Tractor Beams ( 6 points)
- Slicer Tools ( 7 points)
= 40 total ship cost

GR-75 Combat Retrofits (24 points)
- Slicer Tools ( 7 points)
= 31 total ship cost

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Fleet created with Armada Warlords

Here's what I'm flying in this vein. The overall list doesn't look anything like Ginkapo's original presentation. That said, the meat of it is certainly the combination of Sensor Teams, MC30's, and Ackbar, and it was Ginkapo's advocacy for it that started me off in this direction.

Its actually descended from one that subbed out Foresight for an engineering Pelta (external racks, shields to maximum, veteran captain, projection experts) + two more Z95's. I found that the Pelta wasn't contributing enough damage, and the combination of activation order and fleet geometry frequently prevented it from being able to effectively support the Admonition in the shield-regenerating role. She can pack a salvo that works well in a finishing role, dealing nearly as much wallop as a modern Raider. But her poor speed meant that she would get into no-escape situations, and would limit the maneuverability of the rest of the fleet acting with her. Subbing out the Pelta for the Foresight upgrades the list from "huh, that's interesting, I guess", to something with a bit more sphincter-pucker factor

In practice, most players ignore the Assault Frigate since it just doesn't look as threatening as the other ships. She serves well to activate squadrons, provides a safe home for Ackbar, and still contributes to combat. Her biggest weakness is that her guns are unreliable, but all of the available dice-fixing upgrades for her would take too much effectiveness out from somewhere else to make it worthwhile.

Z95-augmented X-wings make a great CAP. It also helps pad out my deployments a pinch. I'm flying only one strategic squadron and have found that it pairs very well with Hyperspace Assault and Intel Sweep. If someone picks my assault objective, then I'm also not as disadvantaged as I would have been by investing in two strategic squadrons. In my meta, almost all of the Imperial players are taking Valen "Anti-Shara" Ruder in their CAP, which weakens Shara's effectiveness quite a bit. In principle, I could keep going rock-paper-scissors by attempting to lock down Valen before he met up with Shara, but in practice that's not practical. The imperial player has more than enough activation freedom to ensure that Valen meets his target. Otherwise, these squadrons satisfy a standard SFC role, delaying enemy bombers long enough to race in and pound the carriers.

Opening Salvo for the assault objective pairs nicely with all of the frigates. As @Ginkapo pointed out, ECM is quite effective at reducing the impact of one big wallop by one of these MC30's. However, ECM typically only shows up on larger ships, which would prefer not to face Opening Salvo. Also, by having three ships that all have some long-range impact, it makes it easier for me to employ standard whaling tactics by delivering significant damage from multiple sources over several turns.

Ackbar's One Shot Wonders

Faction: Rebel Alliance
Points: 398/400

Commander: Admiral Ackbar

Assault Objective: Opening Salvo
Defense Objective: Hyperspace Assault
Navigation Objective: Intel Sweep

[ flagship ] Assault Frigate Mark II B (72 points)
- Admiral Ackbar ( 38 points)
- Gunnery Team ( 7 points)
- Electronic Countermeasures ( 7 points)
= 124 total ship cost

MC30c Scout Frigate (69 points)
- Foresight ( 8 points)
- Sensor Team ( 5 points)
- Turbolaser Reroute Circuits ( 7 points)
- External Racks ( 3 points)
= 92 total ship cost

MC30c Scout Frigate (69 points)
- Admonition ( 8 points)
- Sensor Team ( 5 points)
- Turbolaser Reroute Circuits ( 7 points)
- External Racks ( 3 points)
= 92 total ship cost

GR-75 Medium Transports (18 points)
- Boosted Comms ( 4 points)
= 22 total ship cost

1 VCX-100 Freighter ( 15 points)
3 X-Wing Squadrons ( 39 points)
2 Z-95 Headhunter Squadrons ( 14 points)

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Fleet created with Armada Warlords