Is a squadron-heavy Yavaris list or Rieekan list a must? For me, the Navigation objectives in particular make it very difficult to plan for 2nd player and feel confident. Deployment and movement/speed seem to have such a small margin of error. I keep going back to a Defiance MC80 (because I just love that ship), but it usually dies and I can't absorb that sort of point loss.

Over the last 14 games with my regular playing partner, 13 were won by 1st player, and 11 of those were won by Imperials. I'm determined to make 2nd player Rebels work, even if it kills me! (over and over again)

Defiance!

The same way as 2nd player Imperials

A good set of objectives as well as outactivating your opponent helps. For Navigation objective Intel sweep is a good candidate (as 75 points can make a difference between win and a loss)

What is your usual fleet?

Rieekan! Very frustrating to play against as first player... but then, if he knows this, he could make you go first, providing he wins the bid

Outbidding and going first

The same way as 2nd player Imperials

A good set of objectives as well as outactivating your opponent helps. For Navigation objective Intel sweep is a good candidate (as 75 points can make a difference between win and a loss)

What is your usual fleet?

Usually either a Mothma variety pack (MC30, Assault Frig., 1-2 CR90s, 1-2 transports) or Dodonna (Defiance, 2 transports, 2xTRC90s). Five activations, and 6 squadrons that can either bomb ships or pull anti-Rhymer duty. I think Rieekan + Defiance is my next list. Being able to hit Demolisher after he hits me is what I've desperately needed recently.

The same way as 2nd player Imperials

A good set of objectives as well as outactivating your opponent helps. For Navigation objective Intel sweep is a good candidate (as 75 points can make a difference between win and a loss)

What is your usual fleet?

Usually either a Mothma variety pack (MC30, Assault Frig., 1-2 CR90s, 1-2 transports) or Dodonna (Defiance, 2 transports, 2xTRC90s). Five activations, and 6 squadrons that can either bomb ships or pull anti-Rhymer duty. I think Rieekan + Defiance is my next list. Being able to hit Demolisher after he hits me is what I've desperately needed recently.

The same way as 2nd player Imperials

A good set of objectives as well as outactivating your opponent helps. For Navigation objective Intel sweep is a good candidate (as 75 points can make a difference between win and a loss)

What is your usual fleet?

Usually either a Mothma variety pack (MC30, Assault Frig., 1-2 CR90s, 1-2 transports) or Dodonna (Defiance, 2 transports, 2xTRC90s). Five activations, and 6 squadrons that can either bomb ships or pull anti-Rhymer duty. I think Rieekan + Defiance is my next list. Being able to hit Demolisher after he hits me is what I've desperately needed recently.

You're correct activation wise, I would also aim for 5 activations, however I think that all your lists are missing a second heavy damage dealer and this is very useful for second player lists. This way you can threaten two ships at once so this way your opponent can't just move first and get out. I would try to add either a second MC30 or Yavaris with BWings as a second credible threat.

Good suggestions. As a player that tends to build and play lists more defensively, I need these sorts of reminders to bring the heavy damage dealers.

Also, I love how often this game reminds me of chess (forking, pinning, trading up)

In a more helpful answer,

red dice assault frigates, TRCorvettes and MC80 home ones have a very large but moderate damage area of influence, What this means is that they arent actually too bothered about where exactly the enemy navigates too. Alongside them can be squadrons who also tend to have a wide area of damage influence. This all brings about a high degree of flexibility about where exactly the enemy is.

Mostly to provoke a response from Ard. I dont see MC30s as a second player ship, or particularly the Neb B.

I dont see MC30s as a second player ship, or particularly the Neb B.

Why not? Titled MC30 should be able to survive one round of shooting, I believe. Yavaris can wait till the target ship activates and moves in and strike with the bombers (and also is likely to survive a round of shooting as long as its sides aren't exposed).

I don't...

then again, I haven't won much of any games I've played - I just have a blast playing.

I dont see MC30s as a second player ship, or particularly the Neb B.

Why not? Titled MC30 should be able to survive one round of shooting, I believe. Yavaris can wait till the target ship activates and moves in and strike with the bombers (and also is likely to survive a round of shooting as long as its sides aren't exposed).

Agreed that they should be able to survive but my issue with them has been that without first player the enemy has a chance to run out of black dice range. As second player with MC30's you need to play more conservatively and force the enemy to activate into your black arcs or pincer two enemy ships. Each of which make your MC30 more vulnerable so overall I'd much prefer a healthy bid and first player.

As second player with MC30's you need to play more conservatively and force the enemy to activate into your black arcs or pincer two enemy ships.

Exactly, therefore if you're planning to be second player, you need at least two of them. That was my point.

Hahahahaha.

"Winning."

Hahahahahaa.

::cries in corner::

Hahahahaha.

"Winning."

Hahahahahaa.

::cries in corner::

Heh, I'm not sure whether you're referring to the ongoing thread about points/MOV vs. just "winning", or just bemoaning your own bad luck at the table. But I suppose I could have been more specific about what I mean by winning: As a casual player, an intense 6-5 win is a win, and just as much fun as a 10-1. That being said, I'd love to go into a match as 2nd player with Rebels and believe that an 8-3 or 9-2 is possible!

In a more helpful answer,

red dice assault frigates, TRCorvettes and MC80 home ones have a very large but moderate damage area of influence, What this means is that they arent actually too bothered about where exactly the enemy navigates too. Alongside them can be squadrons who also tend to have a wide area of damage influence. This all brings about a high degree of flexibility about where exactly the enemy is.

Mostly to provoke a response from Ard. I dont see MC30s as a second player ship, or particularly the Neb B.

DID SOMEONE SAY MC30 S ARE BAD AT SOMETHING??

I actually agree with you, somewhat. They're certainly BETTER as first player, all other factors being equal.

Sorry, lunch is over so no time for a long diatribe about how great the shrimp is.

I've been running Yavaris B's as second player successfully - tabled 4 opponents so far (3x9-2 wins and 1x10-1). Objectives are mainly Precision Strike, Superior positions and Hyperspace assault (except when I thought Contested Outpost was a good idea and ended up ignoring the objective to kill ships).

or just bemoaning your own bad luck at the table.

I live in red-die-Hell.

What did someone call me the other day... Ah, here it is...

Statistically Abysmal.

Yeah. that sme.

or just bemoaning your own bad luck at the table.

I live in red-die-Hell.

What did someone call me the other day... Ah, here it is...

Statistically Abysmal.

Yeah. that sme.

Join the Dark Side and reroll them

or just bemoaning your own bad luck at the table.

I live in red-die-Hell.

What did someone call me the other day... Ah, here it is...

Statistically Abysmal.

Yeah. that sme.

Red dice are my favorite...

or just bemoaning your own bad luck at the table.

I live in red-die-Hell.

What did someone call me the other day... Ah, here it is...

Statistically Abysmal.

Yeah. that sme.

Join the Dark Side and reroll them

But then I don't get B-Wings...

That's just too much to lose.

I have been running a squadron-heavy non-Yavaris list. I'd say I've gone second 80% of the time, and I'm doing ok with the list. (Managed to qualify for the Vassal World Cup, if just barely .

One way to compensate for going second is not only to out-activate your opponent, but to out-deploy them. I have always been able to set down my main damage-dealing ship last, taking into account the mission and my opponent's strength and weaknesses. True, my list is extreme at 10 deployments and 5 activations (though that seems standard these days), but it's something to think about.

One way to compensate for going second is not only to out-activate your opponent, but to out-deploy them. I have always been able to set down my main damage-dealing ship last, taking into account the mission and my opponent's strength and weaknesses.

Quoting this, bolding this, and increasing the font because it is the best bit of advice in this thread.

One way to compensate for going second is not only to out-activate your opponent, but to out-deploy them. I have always been able to set down my main damage-dealing ship last, taking into account the mission and my opponent's strength and weaknesses.

Quoting this, bolding this, and increasing the font because it is the best bit of advice in this thread.

Well deserved bolding.

To answer the OP's original question, I mostly go first, but I've gotten quite a bit of experience with Rieekan second player lists that I don't think going second with them is really a huge problem.

You really have to start anticipating where the opponent will be and leave few or not good shots, then create a trap where they are forced to move up into closer range. You're basically trading junk first player shots for better second player shots. Activation and deployment are two of the key ways that you accomplish this. And one other key is that usually your own damage dealer is a pretty important ship that you don't want to lose, so deploying it last is also critical for its safety. I rarely lose an MC80. It can almost always be put some place where it is much more difficult for the opponent to get at.

Out-activating the other guy is a good start.
Keep a tight rein on your maneuvers.
Fork.
Dictate the tempo of the engagement.
Discipline yourself to keep a nav token on every ship as often as you possibly can.
Fork.
Don't get prematurely aggressive.
Don't let him force you into an engagement you don't want to be in.
Force him into engagements he doesn't want to be in.
FORK.
Be very familiar with threat zones, both yours and his--squadron threats included.
Focus your fire early to obtain and maintain activation advantage.
Leverage activation advantage to force him into your arcs, preferably double ones.

Hope he didn't bring Demolisher. If he did, dodge it as long as you can, use that MC30T/H9 you brought along to one-shot his Raider/Gozanti activation support, and FORK THEM.