Given that we are now seeing a few 0 point upgrades that are basically stapled to a pilot card (thiking the arc and tie s/f titles, plus maybe guidance chips on a torpedo scout), how would you deal with your opponent forgetting to put that upgrade in their list?

Obviously in a pick up game at the FLGS you would take it as given, but how would you react in, say, a tournament environment if you noticed it in the first game as a player, or when checking lists as a tournament organiser?

I've come very close to doing the same thing myself, so I'd be pretty forgiving, particularly if they've got the card with them. Generally speaking, I'd much rather my opponent was flying the list they intended to bring than some compromise they've had to cobble together at the last minute.

I'd let them.

Then subsequently bring it up to the TO so that player could potentially fix their list.

It's got to be a very clear definition: 0 points, no possible negative effects.

For now, in a tournament I would allow it. But when the Tie Striker is released, its a big deal if you have the free title or not, so at that point it had to be clear in the list if the title is there or not. If the person then have forgotten said card, no worries as long as its clear if the title is there or not.

Of topic, how fun it will be when Boba crew starts removing all these free titles

More reasons for a floor rules and conduct doc.

In a tourney, I'd say no even with 0 pt upgrades like Guidance Chips and Collision Detectors.

I'd say, just the ones represented within the ships cost: TIE/SF and ARC as these are mostly additional rules which had to be printed as upgrades.

It's got to be a very clear definition: 0 points, no possible negative effects.

I'm inclined to agree with this, where there is no oppertunity cost to taking the card (ie whether thats points or foregoing some other upgrade) then I would let my opponent use it. Where it looks to just be a blindingly obvious ommision, then treat it as such.

The guidance chips/collision detector/chopper discussion is slightly more nuanced...

Fly casual tournament? Fine, no problem.

Anything competitive? I'd refer the question to the TO.

Personally I'd be fine with them using it, but I'd prefer to go by the book and let someone in authority make the call.

If it's a tournament then, depending on who's running it, it's kinda out of your hands as a player - most tournaments require lists to be submitted at the start of the day, and any deviations are considered cheating.

Individually I'd have no problem with it whatsoever.

If it's a tournament then, depending on who's running it, it's kinda out of your hands as a player - most tournaments require lists to be submitted at the start of the day, and any deviations are considered cheating.

Individually I'd have no problem with it whatsoever.

This is the law of the land. The only list that can fly is the one that is submitted, in writing, to the officials before matches begin. No changes can be made to this list after play starts. As a player (if asked by my opponent if they could make a change to their list) I would refer them to the TO and tell that player I support whatever decision that is made by the tournament officials.

People have been disqualified for not writing down the correct list they were flying at a Regionals here in QLD Australia.

Personally, I think that at a premier level event like a regionals or nationals, you should be able to expect your opponent will be flying the list they submitted. Sure, it's easy to say "but everyone knows they take X", but I as a player (or equally, the TO) have no idea if they don't have that card (for whatever reason), chose not to use the card, or just forgot. Even if it's a 1 point Boba Fett crew, with the points allocated on the ship, if it's not written down on the list you hand over to me, I'll be rather surprised if you try to use it on me.

Store event, even a store champs, I'm happy enough to play against it, if it's pointed out at the start.

But this is something that can be resolved more easily if there was a set of floor rules, where the TO can get some guidance on what FFG OP think is a fair way to resolve it.

What was resolved with a complete DQ in one case, might be ignored in another, which isn't really fair to all concerned.

Fly casual tournament? Fine, no problem.

Anything competitive? I'd refer the question to the TO.

Personally I'd be fine with them using it, but I'd prefer to go by the book and let someone in authority make the call.

This is interesting, because I'd imagine most TO's wouldn't let them take anything that isn't submitted in the list, so you would find yourself in a situation where you either take it to the TO (which might be analagous to just saying 'no') or letting it slide yourself.

Fly casual tournament? Fine, no problem.

Anything competitive? I'd refer the question to the TO.

Personally I'd be fine with them using it, but I'd prefer to go by the book and let someone in authority make the call.

This is interesting, because I'd imagine most TO's wouldn't let them take anything that isn't submitted in the list, so you would find yourself in a situation where you either take it to the TO (which might be analagous to just saying 'no') or letting it slide yourself.

Yeah.. On second thought, just take it to the TO. You'll relinquish any responsibility and let the TO be the hero or bad guy. You can focus on your play.

And to be honest, you want to make sure they're playing the list they submitted and not taking advantage of seeing your list.

Fly casual tournament? Fine, no problem.

Anything competitive? I'd refer the question to the TO.

Personally I'd be fine with them using it, but I'd prefer to go by the book and let someone in authority make the call.

This is interesting, because I'd imagine most TO's wouldn't let them take anything that isn't submitted in the list, so you would find yourself in a situation where you either take it to the TO (which might be analagous to just saying 'no') or letting it slide yourself.

Yeah.. On second thought, just take it to the TO. You'll relinquish any responsibility and let the TO be the hero or bad guy. You can focus on your play.

And to be honest, you want to make sure they're playing the list they submitted and not taking advantage of seeing your list.

Mostly this.

But also; you want to make sure this gets resolved, and resolved properly.

Giving them an answer rather than referring them to the TO creates the potential for it to come up as an issue for them in the next round.

If you say yes, then they'll ask their next round opponent the same question, which can then create a whole storm of bad stuff for both of you.

Even if you say no, they might still try their luck with their next opponent.

Getting them a straight answer from the TO and getting it fixed one way or the other prevents that.

I believe this happened in Australia with Guidance Chips and the Tie V1 title. I believe in the Guidance Chips case the opposing player noticed and let the player know it wasn't in his list and they just played on, after the game he asked the TO about it himself and the TO disqualified him. I believe also for the TIE V1 title a tournament did a list check before the top cut and found someone that didn't have it and disqualified him. Kinda sucks and a little harsh, but it's one of those things you kinda have to do to be consistent.

Correct me if I'm wrong on the stories. Been awhile since I heard about them.

I believe this happened in Australia with Guidance Chips and the Tie V1 title.

Well the V1 title actually costs a point, which could make for an illegal list if it's added on after the fact.

But speaking as a sometimes TO, if people are turning their lists in ahead of time the only fair thing to everyone is to insist that people play the lists they submitted. It does kinda suck for the person who gets DQ'ed for a simple mistake, but it's also a simple mistake to avoid, just need to double check your list before you submit it.

I'll echo the majority here. Forget your ig88 title in casual play? Meh, we're likely proxying things anyway whatever. Forget it in a tournament you can take it up with the TO. It's neither my job nor my responsibility, I'm just there to fly my stuff and do what the TO says.

if they don't have a copy of hte physical card with them? then no i wouldn't let it pass.

Its always possible they just e-bayed the model or something.

It's got to be a very clear definition: 0 points, no possible negative effects.

Have you read the text on any of the zero point cards in question? No, the card will not impact MOV, but read the text. For the TIE/sf and ARC-170 the title is essential to the ships' offensive capability. What if the card in question was Guidance Chips? Or Chopper on a ship that can regen? The points are not as important as what the card can do.

I have zero problem with it, as long as it was realized prior to start-of-game.

After start of game, unfortunately, I've potentially been building my strategy around the current board state, even Guidance Chips would potentially change that.

And, truly, it is up to the TO, if an official tournament with submitted lists. So it'd be, "I'm 100% fine with it, BUT you need to discuss with the TO first, because it will impact your future games."

If they don't have the card, I'm generally able to lend it, so that's not a major issue.

My very first tournament, a player lent me an entire TIE Interceptor I'd forgotten to bring - card, base, and model. Yeah, it was an interesting day. So I don't mind being very forgiving

The problem with "allowing" a player to change their list (even before the game begins) is that you are not only effecting your game, but the games of all the other players around you (and future games). As we all know, MOV will define each and every round of play.

Only the TO can make such a decision. A TO could very easily see your "fly casual" as an act of cheating and disqualify you along with the player who forgot their 0 point card. I don't say this to be harsh or mean, I do so as a PSA for those who are new to the tournament scene. These kinds of decisions MUST be left to the TO.

Fly casual tournament? Fine, no problem.

Anything competitive? I'd refer the question to the TO.

Personally I'd be fine with them using it, but I'd prefer to go by the book and let someone in authority make the call.

I am with you for that, call the the TO. And as TO I would make a call to the room as a whole and see if there are any objections to adding the forgotten upgrade to the list print out and move along.

Thing is, technical the upgrade is not in the print out and thus not in the registred tourney list. So anyone makes a fuss about it is technical right.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hou0lU8WMgo

Personally I am all for pointing the mistake out, at best before the tourney starts and a correction of that error is possible before the event starts without a fuss. If the guy played already a round without the upgrade, I am certainly not letting him upgrade it afterwards.

First round catching the mistake is fine, but I am not taking an disadvantage against OTHER opponents. Might sound odd, but imho tourney integrity first.

1. Whatever you feel is fair.

2. Depends on what "tone" you want to set for the game.

3. Depends on WHY you are playing - to have FUN or to WIN (they are not exclusive but you need to which id your first priority).

4. Depends on your mood - you don'y HAVE to ... but what do you WANT to do.

I did this myself at the last tournament I attended. I forgot my integrated astro's in my case, in my car. I figured it out when I went to use it during my first match. I decided to be a big boy, own up to my mistake and just play through without modifying my list even though my opponent and the other pairing at my table said it would be fine. Was it because I was too lazy to run to my car and get the card? Probably. but I like the play the game with my mistakes so I learn from them.... even in flying casual I somehow got hte Talon Roll and Sloop rules mixed up and it cost me the game (that turn even), my opponent offered me to choose new maneuvers and said nope, I'll play it out. For me thats more fun. God knows how many times I've forgotten to decloak,....

That being said... depending on the scenario I'd allow my opponent to fix their mistake once, if it was an obvious mistake (forgetting IA, not decloaking, etc.) but more than once... sorry bud. dem's the rules