Hi, I know you can't pre measure but when trying to judge distances are you allowed to put your finger on the gaming table. I've seen the rule where you can use rulers or anything but not seen anything about touching the table. If there is where is the rule please?

There's no specific rule, but if you're doing it to try to pre-measure, you're not allowed to do whatever it is you're doing to do it.

(We've all heard the stories about dedicated wargame players who know precisely know long their handspan is in inches and all that)

There's no specific rule, but if you're doing it to try to pre-measure, you're not allowed to do whatever it is you're doing to do it.

(We've all heard the stories about dedicated wargame players who know precisely know long their handspan is in inches and all that)

Your hands in inches, you say? I guess that would be less offensive...

No not putting a whole hand down just the point of a finger on the table.

No you are not allowed to do that. Because you could potentially help your opponent understanding where you are going to land ;P You're also not allowed to leave your maneuver templates on the playing area (as that may be a serious handicap for a player)..

Anyway, that is what the whole game is about - positioning and mastering your movements. Sometime in casual games or even low level tournaments I talk with opponent about different movement opportunities and (revealing the dial) it happens that we check some "very close movement option that was not chosen in the end but is for both of us interesting to understand if the ship would fit in the spot hitting the stone or not, etc.

But where is the rule? No measurements are done, if it gives your opponent an advantage that's your fault. No templates are used, your not using the span of your hand or anything your pointing to 1 or a few spots on the battlefield.

I imagine it'd cone under "sportsmanship" in a tournament. In a casual setting I wouldn't be bothered at all

But where is the rule? No measurements are done, if it gives your opponent an advantage that's your fault. No templates are used, your not using the span of your hand or anything your pointing to 1 or a few spots on the battlefield.

The rule says pre-measuring is not allowed.

If you're doing something with the aim of pre-measuring, it's not allowed.

It doesn't matter what it is, if your goal is to find out data about your intended manoeuvres before you make them, it's not permitted by the ules which state that you can't pre-measure.

Definition of measure

ascertain the size, amount, or degree of (something) by using an instrument or device marked in standard units.

Pointing to a place on the board doesn't constitute the definition of measuring. It helps judge but that isn't the same.

Rules, by their nature, are designed to be inclusive in that they tell you what you are permitted to do. It would be functionally impossible to list every single thing that you are not permitted to do. There are no rules, for example, that I know of that expressly forbid you from putting a piece of fried chicken on the board. However, this doesn't mean you're permitted to slap down a piece of fried chicken - regardless of the outcome from other players and/or the owner of the actual board. Try it and use the defense of "The rules don't forbid me from slapping down fried chicken on the board, though!"

But hey, go nuts. Slap some chicken down on the board if you're so inclined and let us know how it goes for you. I'm kind of curious now.

There are consequences for touching inside the play area...

OP: Lets call this for what it is. You want to be able to do something that is against the rules (pre-measure) and came on here to seek justification/support for your actions.

You've not received it; and now you're crying "Show me where I can't" because you didn't get an answer you wanted.

No pre-measuring. Be it rulers; templates; hands; fingers; or pieces of fried chicken. There are no ifs, ands, or buts.

That's the point I'm not pre measuring as I'm still guessing and can be wrong. If I was putting something on the ship to the place I wanted to go it would be measuring but I'm not. I understand people don't like it and won't do it but by the whole definition of what a measurement is that is not it. It does help me guess but at the end of the day it is still a guess.

Definition of measure

ascertain the size, amount, or degree of (something) by using an instrument or device marked in standard units.

Pointing to a place on the board doesn't constitute the definition of measuring. It helps judge but that isn't the same.

Can we make it a rule that if you refer to a dictionary definition of a word in a rules debate, you automatically lose?

That's the point I'm not pre measuring as I'm still guessing and can be wrong. If I was putting something on the ship to the place I wanted to go it would be measuring but I'm not. I understand people don't like it and won't do it but by the whole definition of what a measurement is that is not it. It does help me guess but at the end of the day it is still a guess.

You're using an external implement to assist to in gauging the movement and placement of your ships. It doesn't matter if its inaccurate and you might still be wrong; the point is you're using more than just your eyes during the planning phase. And that is the whole point.

DR4CO, please tell me how you get the definition of a rule then if you don't use a dictionary definition? The whole meaning of a rule is defined by the words within that rule and if you don't use that meaning then everyone will have a different interpretation which will lead to the whole game failing.

Using your definition, you may try to pre-measure by ascertaining the distance between two points by using your finger as a device that is not marked in units, but is of a known size for yourself.

I'm not using my finger(s) as a measuring device. Pointing from above to a place on the battlefield. Not using the length of my finger, hand span or anything, just pointing to a place on the battlefield. If you put the length of your finger between ships or from one ship to somewhere else that is pre measuring.

I'm not using my finger(s) as a measuring device. Pointing from above to a place on the battlefield. Not using the length of my finger, hand span or anything, just pointing to a place on the battlefield. If you put the length of your finger between ships or from one ship to somewhere else that is pre measuring.

And in that case one could argue you were using your forearm for the measure. That's one of the oldest ones around. You dont have to agree with it, but to a competive player in a torney setting expect to scruinty with the possibilty of a warning/ dq on how it was viewed.

In a more casual setting it's between you and your opponent

I find it hard to believe that pointing down at the table, and maybe touching the surface with a fingertip, would be any more accurate than eyeballing the distance based on multiples of base size. I'd be fine with it right up until somebody starts checking their forearm is parallel with the tabletop; that's measuring!

My question to snail is, why do you feel the need to point at the table? The only use I can think of is temporarily marking an estimated position while considering an alternative. "Hmm, I could do a 3 bank and be about here [places fingertip on table] but if I did the 2 turn instead then barrel roll to here..." You'd be revealing far more to your opponent about your thinking than you would gain in accurate measurements, but as a learning aid it could be useful.

That is it helps guessing and can be part of my thinking process. I do go through a number of variations so not to give final option.

The length of my arm or any other part of my body isn't being used.

Wouldn't it just be better to avoid all the hassle that's likely to come your way, by just not putting a finger on the table during planning? It's been made abundantly clear that the majority here would view it as some kind of assisted estimation process, and that's pretty much pre-measuring, even if there's no ruler, template or such involved. You're using it to assist you in your "guess", and any assistance is majorly frowned upon by most players.

That is it helps guessing and can be part of my thinking process. I do go through a number of variations so not to give final option.

The length of my arm or any other part of my body isn't being used.

Either way it's drama you don't need

I'm not using my finger(s) as a measuring device. Pointing from above to a place on the battlefield. Not using the length of my finger, hand span or anything, just pointing to a place on the battlefield. If you put the length of your finger between ships or from one ship to somewhere else that is pre measuring.

No, that's actually measuring. Nothing "pre" about it. This.. from a poster that decided to put a definition of measuring in an earlier post...

I know that across my hand, at the base of my fingers, is pretty darn close to a 2-Straight. I discovered that this is a cheap way to measure after playing someone in a tournament that continually was putting his off-hand down "randomly", but right in front of his ships, on the board while looking at another part. It wasn't until after the tournament that we realized he had been doing it to every person he played against. So keep your darn hands, fingers, toes, fried chicken, etc. off the board.

Hi, I know you can't pre measure but when trying to judge distances are you allowed to put your finger on the gaming table. I've seen the rule where you can use rulers or anything but not seen anything about touching the table. If there is where is the rule please?

What you describe is considered by many to be measuring and is just as horrible as if you had tested things by putting all the templates on the table to test your options beforehand. To be blunt some will say you shouldn't even look at the table if their is ANYTHING that could help judge some distance.

There are consequences for touching inside the play area...

This is pretty much the reponse you're going to get from some people.