So you were playing some games before the Holocron was spoiled, and then the Holocron was spoiled and invalidated whatever conclusion you had reached prior to that point. That's exactly why drawing conclusions with the Holocron involved is also entirely inappropriate.

Any subsequent spoiler could completely up end what you previously thought, just like the Holocron did. And we aren't talking about a few cards left unknown, we are talking about half the set.

I have no delusions about FFGs ability and track record when it comes to balancing their products, especially initially. They are better then their competitors, but that doesn't mean much. This game will in all likelihood have notable balance issues within the first set, I'd bet money on it. But that does not change that drawing conclusions with half the cards spoiled, especially to the point of inserting ban talk into the conversation, is inappropriate. You are making a determination with a extreme amount of variables left unaccounted for, that's just a bad scientific method.

Where the Holocron stacks up in the present card pool is meaningless because the present card pool is also meaningless.

70% is your chance to rolling a special assuming you re roll it twice. (But it does not hurt that much if you don't, you can try next turn)

44% is your chance of getting one in your opening hand considering you can mulligan for it

I really wish that it will get a convenient answer in the unspoiled cards. I am certainly not calling for a ban before seeing the rest of the set indeed, and I agree it would be crazy.

I just say that my reason to be worried is because it is SUCH AN OUTLIER in the current card sample that I am fairly skeptical it will have an elegant set of answers.

I am certainly not a ban/nerf lover when not absolutely needed.

But it is sometimes, even for very well thought Fnatasy Flight games : For example, Imperial assault certainly got harmed by waiting a whole season before nerfing royal guards / officers for example.

And with the current dataset, Holocron in destiny is even more of an issue than early outliers in many other games.

I am just eager to see new spoilers - but also sincerely worried.

Where the Holocron stacks up in the present card pool is meaningless because the present card pool is also meaningless.

^^THIS^^

Oh? It sure sounded like it.

Not sure what you are trying to argue with the percentages. Did it really make that much of a difference to say "NO GUYS ITS NOT 1/3 its 1/2!!!"?

Yea, my e-peen is huge too.

I'll laugh really hard when the next card that is previewed is a 0 cost action that says "players may not resolve [special} dice faces this round."

as long as the discussion is clean it's all good fun.

And with the current dataset, Holocron in destiny is even more of an issue than early outliers in many other games.

You would never take someone seriously if they took half of a Core Set of X-Wing or any if the LCGs and drew balance related conclusions from it while not considering the other half of the game.

You spoke on how bad Imperial Assault was within its initial offering, and boy was it. That clearly is what happens when you try to build two games off the same foundation. But if someone had assessed Skirmish play based on spoilers that didn't include the Royal Guards, would their conclusions have been at all valid? That's essentially what you are doing here. You don't know what the other half of the set includes. It could be nothing, it could be more Holocrons, it might even be a boat.

You noted how harmed Imperial Assault was by having a year plus of absolutely horribly balanced Skirmish play. But you have to recognize the wide chasm of difference between letting something fester for a year and actually not even waiting for even a majority of the set to be spoiled before asserting that things need to be addressed.

Oh? It sure sounded like it.

Oh? Can't you see the word "if" at the beginning?

Saying "If" and then following it up with "here are all the reasons I think it is"....

Yea, my e-peen is huge too.

Good for you, however I only wanted to show how strong the card is. Most people didn't play yet.

I agree, most people haven't played with the set yet. Including you.

And with the current dataset, Holocron in destiny is even more of an issue than early outliers in many other games.

You would never take someone seriously if they took half of a Core Set of X-Wing or any if the LCGs and drew balance related conclusions from it while not considering the other half of the game.

You spoke on how bad Imperial Assault was within its initial offering, and boy was it. That clearly is what happens when you try to build two games off the same foundation. But if someone had assessed Skirmish play based on spoilers that didn't include the Royal Guards, would their conclusions have been at all valid? That's essentially what you are doing here. You don't know what the other half of the set includes. It could be nothing, it could be more Holocrons, it might even be a boat.

You noted how harmed Imperial Assault was by having a year plus of absolutely horribly balanced Skirmish play. But you have to recognize the wide chasm of difference between letting something fester for a year and actually not even waiting for even a majority of the set to be spoiled before asserting that things need to be addressed.

ScottieATF is on point as usual =).

PS - I am stealing "it might even be a boat".

70% is your chance to rolling a special assuming you re roll it twice. (But it does not hurt that much if you don't, you can try next turn)

44% is your chance of getting one in your opening hand considering you can mulligan for it

Okay, I am going to assume your numbers are correct. I or someone else can fact check when we get more time.

That would mean:

44% chance to draw (meaning a 56% chance you do not draw it, even after mulligan).

0.44 x 0.7 = 30.8% chance to have it occur turn 1 without forcing it somehow.

So far, I am not overly impressed unless you force it every game somehow. Less than 1/3 games will have it occur turn 1, and that assumes that your opponent does NOTHING to mess with it.

Turn 2, you would have a 70% chance for it to activate assuming you had drawn it and didn't fall into the 56% chance that you simply didn't draw it turn 1. If you fell into that category you would have a what? a 75ish% chance to draw it assuming you pitched your whole hand and redrew?

I don;t have a moment to math it out, but let's just say it was roughly 75% +-5%.

That would mean:

0.75 (+-.05) x 0.7 = 52.5% (high 56%, low 49%) to have it happen turn 2. Again, assuming your opponent did nothing and you didn't force it somehow.

Yea... not really inspiring the idea that this is totally dominant. Sure, it may ramp you early, but isn't exactly blowing me away with consistency.

EDIT: Also, none of these numbers cover the chance that you get the Holocron AND something to drop with it. So these are probably pretty optimistic.

FFG are fond of releasing counters that are broad, and that cost X. See also A Game of Thrones "The things I do for Love". I seem probable that there will be a similar action (probably yellow) that will allow you to remove any field card for a cost equal to the cost of the upgrade. So 0 for Sith holocron, and 5 for Millenium falcon. Might not be in the first release though.