I am unexplainably pulled by this game. I have read everything i could about it and I am looking forward for any new spoiler every day. I hate the business model of such games where the price paid to have a decent deck is orders of times higher than for a fixed-content game. Yet I am pulled by this game. Let's succumb to my feelings.

I have even built advanced statistical models to estimate the relative cost-efficiency of every card (like I do for every game I like). And well, everything sounds reasonably balanced and pretty well thought , a rare achievement for new games ! But I consider FFG is unarguably to me the world leader in boardgame design. And this high level of balance is especially true on the character side ! I was pleasantly surprised to find that the variations between the 1- or 2- dice of all characters all look very legitimately priced ! (My early assumption was two-dice or nothing, I was glad to be mathematically proved wrong)

EXCEPT for a stupidly unbalanced card. And it does matter, as with the generous muligan rule and small decks, you get more than 40% chance of drawing it, something very close to the worst possible randomness. You do get it - or you don't.

SITH HOLOCRON is massively overpowered to the point that I think it's quite likely that there could be a single viable archetype, involving holocron and its massive requirement for blue abilities, so not even much variation in that single archetype.

Every deck should consider carefully what it does with its 2-3 resources a turn - great concept ! Except holocrons, that will rain strong expensive abilities, resulting in an almost twice-as-strong economy, and then an uninteresting unbalanced game.

The main argument I expect to read against my statement is : "We barely know a fraction of the cards, how could you be that bold with your conclusive statement about the game ?!".

But the issue is that it's extremely tough to find appropriate answers to overpowered cards involving the additions of new cards !

- Other overpowered cards ? The game would still be bad, but with more variations of tier-1 decks

- (Too) specific counters ? i.e cards that are good as counters, but sub-par in other situations - this just emphasizes the luck-of-the-draw issue

Also, the Holocron is designed such as it is quite difficult to counter. It does not look like it's an issue to pack your deck with blue abilities. The holocron even allows you to split these abilities on other characters if you don't play double blue.

I'd like to be surprised, but I really don't expect the designers will have found the perfectly balanced counters in the set - it's a work of art to do, and it would have been so much better not to release the holocron as it is instead. I am afraid they just completely underestimated it.

I just sincerely hope I could be pleasantly surprised and the rest of the set offers smooth counters tuning done the overall holocron's power to a reasonable level (an "ability"-cleanse ? a breaker of equipment or cheap stuff ? not sure what could work well enough - Holocron costs nothing and you usually re-roll a bunch of dices once or twice which gives a high chance of special - and then your advantage is already massive). But again, that's super tough to do, especially if you have not identified the card as the one to tune down.

And nothing barely approaches this power level in the set. Cards like "close-quarter assault", or "deflect" look like they have a decent power level. BB-8 is a nice low-cost dice too. But none of those cards is a game breaker at all. They can be played around, or can just be considered cost-efficient. But nothing remotely approaches the power level of Sith Holocron for now. And that's good. We want balanced cards.

I am a little perplex. Yes, the ability requires a dice to be played on the turn it gets into play, yes the card may not be amazing in the final turns of the game. But still, it came obvious to many of us that Holocron is the card you're looking for in order to start well.

So, here is my request : I'd like to read arguments that could reassure me that this game will have a very interesting competitive future despite the existence of the holocron, or statements of other people sharing my worry !

Thanks for your feedback !

I share your fear. A card that is clear cut the card to have will have a large negative effect in the competitive scene.

I play casual, and at my house I expect the Holocron to get restricted.

First, you are not alone in your fear of Holocron. People who have played against it inevitably have those same feelings at first. Although, even with the limited card pool that we have seen, there are ways to deal with it. Discard effects are your best bet right now. I don't mean discarding the Holocron itself. I'm referring to upgrades that they may have in hand after they spent actions on rerolls. Yes they can just get them back with the battlefield, but that wastes a draw that they could've had to be able to get other upgrades to chain the Holocron with. Also, don't play the starship graveyard yourself. Unless you are playing Holocron yourself, very few upgrades are going to be hitting your discard pile (that you didn't put there yourself) that you have to have back. This may change since we haven't seen any upgrade removal yet, but that will in turn help to fight Holocron. I know you don't want to hear it, but I can't imagine the play testers and designers didn't see how good this card is considering we have before the game is even released.

I don't really see how it's that strong.

You still have to roll (1/3) or modify the dice to get the special action symbol. Then activate the symbol.
The action economy isn't amazing.

Currently there are only 6 Blue Ability Upgrade cards that we know of.

2 are Villain ones, 1 is Hero.

3 of them cost 2 Resources, so if you want to roll the dice, the Holocron is only saving you 1 resource (and taking 2-3 actions to use, not including putting it into play).

Best value so far is Mind Probe and One with the Force.

Also it's got 2 blanks on the dice. There's only 3 other cards that have 2 blanks so far. A 1/3 chance of getting nothing out if it probably helps reduce the power a lot.

Think of it this way... the Holocron does nothing except 1 Resource, 1 Focus and swapping for another upgrade.

It's a mill/tutor card. If you're banking on this card to help you get a 4-5 Resource upgrade into the game, then would it not be just as good to play a high Resource gathering card instead?
I think the Holocron is a strong card, but it's not very flexible. It does nothing else.

Compare with something like Commlink which is super versatile.

The deck size thing isn't much of an issue since running out of cards loses you the game. Taking mulligans constantly to get good cards is going to force you to run on borrowed time. Your opponent could switch tactics to play defensive and just wait for you to run out of cards. I think using the mulligan is going to be something you do when you're already losing/behind. It's a catch up mechanic. If you're in a strong position I don't think you'd want to risk running out of cards.

It's certainly a good card but I don't think it's broken.

Also there might be "destroy upgrade" cards and you can certainly counter it just like any other card by removing dice from the pool or forcing rerolls.

Finally... the 30 card limit might actually be very restrictive. If you want to take all the current blue ability upgrade cards in a villain deck, that's 12 cards + 2 holocrons. that's almost half your deck already. And you're limited to only 3 upgrades per character so you'll never get to use all of those 14 cards unless something destroys upgrades. So you might have a super strong upgraded character, but now you have half of your deck that's doing literally nothing for you.

Time will tell of course but I'm not as worried. I do think a strong deck will absolutely destroy a weaker/starter deck but that's normal.

Also, there's quite a lot of discard mechanics. Your Holocron (or one of the strong cards it's going to combo with) aren't doing anything in your graveyard.

If anything, I'd be worried about how quickly all the discard mechanics can mill through an opponent's hand/deck. It seems like an annoying mechanic that you can't really counter well. And with only 30 cards to mill through... discarding 2-3 at a time is pretty **** strong. Close Quarters Assault discards a lot of cards. Vader discards 1 every turn. Commando Raid is very strong (though there aren't may Red dice with Discard on them yet).

Thanks for your feedback, I am answering you hereafter,

I don't really see how it's that strong.

You still have to roll (1/3) or modify the dice to get the special action symbol. Then activate the symbol.
The action economy isn't amazing.

Also it's got 2 blanks on the dice. There's only 3 other cards that have 2 blanks so far. A 1/3 chance of getting nothing out if it probably helps reduce the power a lot.

Very differentiated dices (e.g. 3 double symbols and 3 blanks) are much stronger than uniform ones (6 single symbols) in this game, as the 'reroll all dices' action is an extremely common play. And here, this dice is extremely differentiated, between two blanks and two specials that are probably both worth more than a double symbol. Better than that actually. Resources are arguably the best symbol in the early game, and this special is probably worth more than 2 in average.

Currently there are only 6 Blue Ability Upgrade cards that we know of.

2 are Villain ones, 1 is Hero.

3 of them cost 2 Resources, so if you want to roll the dice, the Holocron is only saving you 1 resource (and taking 2-3 actions to use, not including putting it into play).

Best value so far is Mind Probe and One with the Force

One with the force is a hero card so you can't play it with Sith Holocron, unless they get a guy like FInn that can pick hero blue cards.

But this sample is already enough to make the card great, and can only grow better with more revealed abilities, especially expensive ones. So, it WILL be even stronger with more abilities known.

Think of it this way... the Holocron does nothing except 1 Resource, 1 Focus and swapping for another upgrade.

It's a mill/tutor card. If you're banking on this card to help you get a 4-5 Resource upgrade into the game, then would it not be just as good to play a high Resource gathering card instead?
I think the Holocron is a strong card, but it's not very flexible. It does nothing else.

Compare with something like Commlink which is super versatile.

It's indeed a very high resource gathering card ... costing zero - zero. In many games, just for the investment of one card, you will freely get into play like 5-6 cost of ability upgrades in two turns on top of your normal turn (play your own resources, your other cards, re-rolling the dices you would have re-rolled anyway). Comlink costs 2, and that's a huge difference in the early game - If you play comlink you don't do anything (or much) else. And the special from holocron is still better than whatever you could have on comlink despite a cost that make them completely different cards. And yet I agree that comlink is strong - just a very different level of "strong".

Also there might be "destroy upgrade" cards and you can certainly counter it just like any other card by removing dice from the pool or forcing rerolls.

yes, but I certainly expect these counters to cost significantly more than the holocron to play or activate. Would the card be so strong that we'd have to hope to draw something that would be a bad trade, even a temporary one ?

Finally... the 30 card limit might actually be very restrictive. If you want to take all the current blue ability upgrade cards in a villain deck, that's 12 cards + 2 holocrons. that's almost half your deck already. And you're limited to only 3 upgrades per character so you'll never get to use all of those 14 cards unless something destroys upgrades. So you might have a super strong upgraded character, but now you have half of your deck that's doing literally nothing for you.

Time will tell of course but I'm not as worried. I do think a strong deck will absolutely destroy a weaker/starter deck but that's normal.

Also, there's quite a lot of discard mechanics. Your Holocron (or one of the strong cards it's going to combo with) aren't doing anything in your graveyard.

If anything, I'd be worried about how quickly all the discard mechanics can mill through an opponent's hand/deck. It seems like an annoying mechanic that you can't really counter well. And with only 30 cards to mill through... discarding 2-3 at a time is pretty **** strong. Close Quarters Assault discards a lot of cards. Vader discards 1 every turn. Commando Raid is very strong (though there aren't may Red dice with Discard on them yet).

Early game matters a lot, I think the number of games won when your opponent will have played for free a mind probe on turn 1 - all the rest being equal between both sides - will be extremely low.

And then, on top of what we already discussed - holocron can be played on your other guys. So, you could have 6 or 9 slots for your abilities. And I think if you fill these upgrade slots much faster than your opponent with more expensive upgrades than your opponent, I expect the game to not last very long.

If anything, I'd be worried about how quickly all the discard mechanics can mill through an opponent's hand/deck. It seems like an annoying mechanic that you can't really counter well. And with only 30 cards to mill through... discarding 2-3 at a time is pretty **** strong. Close Quarters Assault discards a lot of cards. Vader discards 1 every turn. Commando Raid is very strong (though there aren't may Red dice with Discard on them yet).

Discard mechanics look important indeed, and there aren't many things as scary as a 3-4 card close quarter assault. But it's certainly not fast or easy to set-up, and it already has good counters, like block, which would result in a really negative turnout turn. Decks focusing on discard will hopefully be interesting, but from what I have seen yet, I think they have a tough competition vs. very offensive decks that have a good chance to claim one character kill on turn 2-3

The issue with Holocron is that it costs nothing - not only in terms of resources, but it does not involve any combo or specific support, it benefits from the reroll actions you would have done otherwise, if it gets shut down by a more expensive card it's still beneficial. You just need to play blue abilities, that look perfectly competitive in a vacuum anyway.

Seems to me there is a big assumption being made, that replace means replace at no cost.

I replaced my car last year, and trust me I paid for the new one.

Replace is not defined in the rules, so until we get a FAQ that makes this distinction I would go with the rule in tan that says "To play a card you pay its' cost...." because right now I do not see the card removing that requirement. You are allowed to ignore requirements of playing that card, so you could play a hero card in a villain deck. You can also roll a dice if you pay the cost to do so as you would normally not be able to.

Just going to put it out there that in common english the word replace does not entail that it is free of cost, and as the rules definition is missing there is an interpretative problem here.

In other games FFG uses the phrasing "put into play" as being a free action. We need a FAQ that most likely will declare this and the FAQ probably will be out there as soon as the rules are posted .

The wording used is "switch this card"; nothing about replacing, playing, or putting into play. I would assume there's no cost involved.

Why? Cards only break the rules in as much as they specifically say they break the rules.

Why? Cards only break the rules in as much as they specifically say they break the rules.

I don't think there is a definition needed, similarly to:

"split" (Mind trick)

"place it on top" (Starship graveyard)

"set aside" (Ace in the hole)

"move" (Draw attention)

"return" (Endless ranks)

"becomes a support" (One with the force) - you don't pay cost, right?

Also compare Poe's ability and Rearm.

Note that "ignoring its play restrictions" is needed, because "blue character only" works all the time (not only during "playing") (at least that's what I think).

ps. I'm glad that, finally, the level of discussion here is much better

https://community.fantasyflightgames.com/topic/229723-a-new-preview-is-up-is-your-strike-team-assembled/page-2#entry2417334

Seems to me there is a big assumption being made, that replace means replace at no cost.

I replaced my car last year, and trust me I paid for the new one.

Replace is not defined in the rules, so until we get a FAQ that makes this distinction I would go with the rule in tan that says "To play a card you pay its' cost...." because right now I do not see the card removing that requirement. You are allowed to ignore requirements of playing that card, so you could play a hero card in a villain deck. You can also roll a dice if you pay the cost to do so as you would normally not be able to.

Just going to put it out there that in common english the word replace does not entail that it is free of cost, and as the rules definition is missing there is an interpretative problem here.

To clarify the card actually says Switch this upgrade with a Blue ability upgrade. There is already a reference to the word replace in the rules. It states "When you choose an upgrade you can choose to replace an upgrade that is already attached to that character. To do so you only spend resources equal to the difference in cost between the cost between the two upgrades. Discard the upgrade you are replacing." Because of the use of the word switch i believe the community is currently playing this card correctly allowing it to switch at no cost for a Blue ability upgrade.

I feel the Blue ability upgrade is actually the limiting factor, as other than mind probe the blue ability upgrades are more of a support dice at this point. You don't want to fill your upgrade slots with a lot of support dice or you will struggle to do damage. In the only Holocron deck i've played on TTS so far I was rolling a lot of dice but also rolling a lot of relatively useless results such as disrupt and discard. My initial though was to play these ability upgrades for free and then replace them with the upgrades I actually wanted. In practice this is a lot of time and effort resulting in little payoff.

Don't get me wrong i think this card is fantastic and will probably find a home in most blue decks cause a 0 cost die seems pretty sweet, but i don't think it's broken at this point even with the limited cards. Another plus is that it actually combos really well with Power of the Darkside ( Support - Action Exhaust this support to reroll one of your dice. If that die rolls a blank. deal 2 unshockable damage to a character.) Having the two blanks gives you solid odds of doing some serious damage, and not using up the die either.

I am going to hold my judgement of this card. While I get where you are coming from, and a lot of people have echoed your concern, I am not ready to jump up and down and complain yet.

I think that Inquisitorsz and Tromsicle bring up many great points, but I will add the following:

I think your assessment of "you get it 40% of the time" as being a large amount is actually a detractor. We have seen cards which are powerful when you get or where they have a medium-ish chance of landing early before in other games, but the question that usually is attached is "how does the deck it is in perform when it does NOT get it".

As has been mentioned, You have a medium-ish change to draw it and a low-ish chance to actually roll the special ability that seems so crazy. So right off the bat, it seems luke-warm to me. If you are playing expensive or even moderately expensive cards which, in theory, you are planning on getting out with the Holocron, the idea of having a fairly low chance turn 1 of getting the card and using it's ability quickly doesn't thrill me. And I haven't even mentioned "what if you don't get a card to drop out with it?". There are MAJOR consistency questions here. Sure, some games you might get it turn 1, play it, immediately roll the special and put out some hugely impactful card, but there will be an equal (or greater) number of games where you either don't see it early, or don't roll the special quickly enough, or don't get a really strong card to drop with it, etc.

My question is - "what happens in those games?". Do you simply lose because you cannot play most of your cards because you can't actually pay for them normally? That's a big question, especially since the blue villain Characters we have seen aren't exactly rolling in the resource faces. Personally, I would not want to play a 6 round Swiss tournament where I had a 1/6 (or so) of getting something decent turn 1 and maybe a 50% chance of getting something decent turn 2 as it is, since I could not expect many of my games to be decided by that card hitting. And that assumes your opponent has no answers at all.

You cannot simply say "well, you can reroll your dice" because that takes cards/actions to do, which may not be feasible at all. If you spend 4+ actions just playing the card, rolling the dice, then rerolling, etc. There is a good change your opponent will simply remove that die when you do land the special, since he would have been playing cards, rolling dice, etc. more efficiently already.

Like I said, I will reserve judgement. It will definitely need testing. But I am skeptical that the times where you wombo-combo early game will be such a common outcome that it may not be easier and better to just build your deck without it, or at least without concerning yourself with it being a game-breaker and using it more as a bonus resource or two here and there. Which, while good, is likely not going to break the game.

I think maybe right now its a bit too good without seeing any of the other cards because of the insane ramp potential in a deck with a lot of blue. However, a one or two cost event that destroys an equipment is sure to be coming because there are so many different equipment and it would never be a wasted spot in an event deck because if your opponent has a deck not too reliant on upgrades then you can just use it for reroll's.

I've played about 20 games with Holocron. I can say without a doubt, in this card pool it is very strong. It allows for decks to ramp up very quickly. Having 1/3 of the rolls come up special is huge with all of the rerolls that you get. However, I am cautiously optimistic that with the full set of cards, it will not stand out quite as much. There are always going to be stronger cards than others, but my data has shown that right now Holocron is much much stronger.

I've played about 20 games with Holocron. I can say without a doubt, in this card pool it is very strong. It allows for decks to ramp up very quickly. Having 1/3 of the rolls come up special is huge with all of the rerolls that you get. However, I am cautiously optimistic that with the full set of cards, it will not stand out quite as much. There are always going to be stronger cards than others, but my data has shown that right now Holocron is much much stronger.

20 games with all cards and dice to choose from? or just a limited amount of those cards and dice?

I've played about 20 games with Holocron. I can say without a doubt, in this card pool it is very strong. It allows for decks to ramp up very quickly. Having 1/3 of the rolls come up special is huge with all of the rerolls that you get. However, I am cautiously optimistic that with the full set of cards, it will not stand out quite as much. There are always going to be stronger cards than others, but my data has shown that right now Holocron is much much stronger.

20 games with all cards and dice to choose from? or just a limited amount of those cards and dice?

He's talking about playing with what's been spoiled. No one that has gotten to play with the full set is going to comment on the subject from that perspective because doing do would violate whatever NDA they signed that got them access to the full set.

So if anyone is talking about playing some games with proxies they are talking about the spoiled cards.

I've played about 20 games with Holocron. I can say without a doubt, in this card pool it is very strong. It allows for decks to ramp up very quickly. Having 1/3 of the rolls come up special is huge with all of the rerolls that you get. However, I am cautiously optimistic that with the full set of cards, it will not stand out quite as much. There are always going to be stronger cards than others, but my data has shown that right now Holocron is much much stronger.

20 games with all cards and dice to choose from? or just a limited amount of those cards and dice?

Sorry I was not clearer about that. I have been playing on TableTop Simulator with the spoiled cards. In that limited environment Holocron is really strong. As I said above I am hopeful that when all the cards are spoiled there will be answers for it.

In fact, it is so good, that we often try to build decks without it.

I think your assessment of "you get it 40% of the time" as being a large amount is actually a detractor. We have seen cards which are powerful when you get or where they have a medium-ish chance of landing early before in other games, but the question that usually is attached is "how does the deck it is in perform when it does NOT get it".

As has been mentioned, You have a medium-ish change to draw it and a low-ish chance to actually roll the special ability that seems so crazy. So right off the bat, it seems luke-warm to me. If you are playing expensive or even moderately expensive cards which, in theory, you are planning on getting out with the Holocron, the idea of having a fairly low chance turn 1 of getting the card and using it's ability quickly doesn't thrill me. And I haven't even mentioned "what if you don't get a card to drop out with it?". There are MAJOR consistency questions here. Sure, some games you might get it turn 1, play it, immediately roll the special and put out some hugely impactful card, but there will be an equal (or greater) number of games where you either don't see it early, or don't roll the special quickly enough, or don't get a really strong card to drop with it, etc.

Thank you for sharing your thoughts ! But none of them has drenched my worry unfortunately. Because of the following reasons :

About the 2 'special' out of 6 possibilities :

Something that people who have not played the game much yet may not have realized is how commonly you discard to reroll all your dices. I think it might average at twice a turn. Simply because decks roll around let's say 4-5 dices on turn 1, ~6 on turn 2, ~7-8 on turn 3-4, and that a single free action to re roll several blanks or sub-optimal rolls is just worth it. WIth that in mind, the probability to roll a special on the holocron jumps up to more than 70% ! And you'd do it anyway if you did not have the holocron in most cases. And if it fails ? sometimes a third reroll might be worth it depending on your dices - and you can retry anyway your 70%-lottery on the following turn !

About the 40%+ chance of drawing it with muligan :

Also, a probability of drawing the card close to 50% is kind of the worst case situation. If it was below 10%, then it would just be an unfair advantage occurring in a minority of games and you'd have to be ready to make plans without it in most cases. If it was more than 90%, then you could count it as an early game staple and everyone would be on the same page, both with plans and counters. Here, we are in the situation where the luck of card draw is just the most annoying.

About the 'what's your plan if you don't draw it or if gets answered ?'

The thing is you don't play any "tax" for playing a deck featuring the holocron. Blue abilities perfectly hold their ground vs. other colors abilities or items. yes, they are a less damaged-focused than weapons, but their special are often very competitive (and again, we re roll a lot in this game), and their utility value makes them decently competitive in comparison to the other upgrades in my experience.

Where are we then ?

Drawing it on turn 2 or 3 is still an excellent draw, so, I'd say that holocron-decks vs, non-holocron decks have very easy match-ups in an atrociously large percentage of games. Basically every time you get it early and the luck disparity is not insane.

When I saw BB-8 at Gencon, I got worried that the power level of cheap dices (especially in the 0-1 cost range) could have been significantly underestimated. Most free event cards provide the effect you would expect from one or two dice symbols. So any very cheap dice gets better than that in just a couple turns, especially when you think about the usual every-turn re rolls. So, my worry became : "Are cheap dices underestimated in power ?". Then I saw more spoilers and got enthusiastic, because big dices spoiled yet are really cost efficient (Falcon, one with the force...) and the cost-curve went the right way according to me. Also, there is the fact that you have a limited number of spots for upgrades.

But Holocron does everything wrong : it costs ZERO, it provides resources, and in massive amounts, and it does not even really take any spot for upgrades as it's meant to be replaced by big ones (and re-played).

There are things that look really really well thought in this game (I mentioned the character-dice cost balance), and well, it's super-fun. But I am looking forward for new spoilers to see if the set really includes sufficient smooth counters, or if there is something that did not click in terms of competitive design balance with cheap dices and their degenerate herald.

If the holocron is one-of-its-kind and does not get appropriate soft counters early, requesting a very early ban or nerf might be extremely beneficial for this game. I am playtesting many games (not this one), and I do it because I think catching potential game-breakers early is very important. The boon of having a fairly diverse meta from scratch is really a huge asset for the life of a game, and it's not easy as a single card can screw it (It has happened on several competitive FFG games, and it harmed them despite excellent concepts). I really hope this one will have it.

I personally prefer to wait and see the whole set and let the card in question play for a bit to see if it is truly as impactful and toxic as people are making it out to be. Before jumping to conclusions based on a third of the cards spoiled and some games played with just those cards let's see the whole set and let the game get played for a little bit. Also, just based on seeing what I've seen with still a whole lot more to come hand destruction is going to be a thing. That in itself may be enough to control this card.

So I can absolutely appreciate acknowledging that a spoiled card looks very powerful, but to already start ban talk before the game is even released or even before the majority of cards are already spoiled is absurd.

You would never playtest a released game and use 1/3rd of the card pool to earnestly assess it, so why would you do it with an unreleased game?

I personally prefer to wait and see the whole set and let the card in question play for a bit to see if it is truly as impactful and toxic as people are making it out to be. Before jumping to conclusions based on a third of the cards spoiled and some games played with just those cards let's see the whole set and let the game get played for a little bit. Also, just based on seeing what I've seen with still a whole lot more to come hand destruction is going to be a thing. That in itself may be enough to control this card.

Agreed 100%. Could it be too strong? Maybe. But it is hard to say that at this moment. Too many unanswered questions with only speculative answers.

@Fanfan - I get where you are coming from, I do. I just don't think I want to jump on the "ban" wagon before I have the cards in hand and can make a more informed assessment.

I still contend that there could be an issue of consistency. Let's assume your chance of getting it AND rolling the die face are approximately 70% as you claim, that is still far from guaranteed. And the more times you have to reroll, the more likely that when you do your opponent claims the battlefield that removes a die or plays a card which does similar. What happens then? While we can speculatively say "meh it will be fine, blue cards are good" all day, that doesn't change the fact that if I generate few resources and am relying on a bit of a rigged lottery to get them out early in the game (where they will have the most impact), my deck may sink itself to some degree. Will that be enough for it to not be played? No, maybe not.

A card like this exists in many card games. Something like "look at the top card of your deck. If it is XYZ, put it into play." The balancing factor for these cards/decks is usually that the frequency it happens or impact of each time your trigger it is limited, and because it is not guaranteed, there are games where your 80% chance looks a lot like 10% and comes too late. From a competitive perspective, these cards work as a "nice bonus if it happens" more than a "holy crap, this is a turn 1/2 wombo-combo" because you have to assume that you will have crappy luck at times and need the deck to work without ever proccing the effect you were hoping for. Which means you build your deck differently and don't rely on it, if you use it at all.. And if it is simply a nice bonus, I am fine with the card as it is, since playing it at all will be more of a "sure I don't need the slots and this sometimes wins me the game turn 1" situation.

You are right, it is ultimately a small investment if you were going to play blue upgrades anyway. A couple of card slots and maybe a reroll or two. The fewer upgrades you play with it, the less likely it is to go off big but then again, the more upgrades you play just to use with holocron, the more opportunity cost it has on your deck. Is the chance that it happens and your opponent doesn't counter somehow worth it? Probably I would think, but maybe not. Maybe I just play the good blue upgrades and skip Holocron for another event or two if they have more overall impact on the game.

And that's why I am can't just jump to "lets talk about nerf" yet. Does the card look good? sure. Could it be too strong? Possibly. Do I know enough at this point to say for sure? Nope, not in my opinion.

In any case, I will laugh hard if in 3 months we are talking about how bad the holocron is because of XYZ. =)

Relax, I don't think anyone wants to ban Holocron, not even Fanfan. We just make interesting discussion.

Personally I don't think Holocron is broken, but it might be.

Note that it is NOT "a third of the cards spoiled". It's 43%. If we exclude character cards it's 48%. If we exclude battlefields it's 51%. (I know that some battlefield can discard upgrades or something, but that would be a poor counter.) Now, if we exclude some more cards like upgrades and vehicles, it's even more %.

Take into consideration cards like Starship graveyard or Emperor's Throne Room (video teaser)

Take into consideration two Holocrons on the first round. Take into consideration single Holocron used twice on the same round.

I play this game since two months and after Holocron was spoiled, my Kylo Dooku deck is almost unbeatable. Obviously that may means nothing, because obviously force users have more cards revealed.

Relax, I don't think anyone wants to ban Holocron, not even Fanfan. We just make interesting discussion.

Oh? It sure sounded like it.

If the holocron is one-of-its-kind and does not get appropriate soft counters early, requesting a very early ban or nerf might be extremely beneficial for this game.

Note that it is NOT "a third of the cards spoiled". It's 43%. If we exclude character cards it's 48%. If we exclude battlefields it's 51%. (I know that some battlefield can discard upgrades or something, but that would be a poor counter.) Now, if we exclude some more cards like upgrades and vehicles, it's even more %.

Take into consideration cards like Starship graveyard or Emperor's Throne Room (video teaser)

Take into consideration two Holocrons on the first round. Take into consideration single Holocron used twice on the same round.

Obviously there are cards that make it better, but there are likely equal cards that hurt it. That actually furthers the idea that there are cards which shut it down, not the opposite. I'll laugh really hard when the next card that is previewed is a 0 cost action that says "players may not resolve [special} dice faces this round."

Not sure what you are trying to argue with the percentages. Yea, about half the cards are unspoiled. Did it really make that much of a difference to say "NO GUYS ITS NOT 1/3 its 1/2!!!"? The point is many cards are not yet known...

I play this game since two months and after Holocron was spoiled, my Kylo Dooku deck is almost unbeatable. Obviously that may means nothing, because obviously force users have more cards revealed.

Yea, my e-peen is huge too. I played the new L5R LCG with the cards that have been spoiled so far and I am undefeated. Obviously that may mean nothing or it may mean Crab are OP. These all or nothing statements are fun.

Hida77 I think your point is solid. Unknown cards might beCome more powerfull then we can ever imagine. And holocron still is a die action to be activated. I think it's all Hot fuzz but as long as the discussion is clean it's all good fun.

How ever do we really have the math written out on the chance that holocron is out turn 1? Well my mat isn't good enough now to calculator it but 70% sound really high to me

Darn autocorrect