Can Poe change a focus to an evade on a R5-K6 diceroll,

after spending TL on an Attack?

"While attacking or defending, if you have a focus token, you may change 1 of your focus results to a hit or evade result."

" After spending your target lock , roll 1 defense die .

On an evade result, immediately acquire a target lock on that same ship. You cannot spend this target lock during this attack"

Its still crappy, but just theoretical?

The astromech is used before the attack is resolved. I would argue yes.

I would argue you no. Poe specifically calls out while attacking or defending. You are doing neither, but rather using a Droid. Not exactly a rules guru though so i could be wrong.

Hmm, I would have said "while attacking/defending" means for the attack or defence roll itself. The roll for the astromech isn't strictly attacking. I guess the question becomes does it mean generally at any point between the start and the end of the attack or more specifically when actually making the attack. Under "modify attack dice", the section for "card ability" does specify "attack dice" but I suppose you could argue you are using Poe's ability independently of the "card ability" step. Hmm.

This would also be a question for Lone Wolf, Jess Pava and possibly some other effects.

Although if this does work, it'd be important to note that you can only use such abilities once so you couldn't use Poe or Lone Wolf on the attack itself (edit: or at least, not afterwards).

I would argue you no. Poe specifically calls out while attacking or defending. You are doing neither, but rather using a Droid. Not exactly a rules guru though so i could be wrong.

" While attacking " and " while defending " cover the whole process, and if the spending of the target lock is for firing a torpedo, or making a reroll during an attack, then it's still happening "while attacking", so R5-K6 can trigger.

Hmm, I would have said "while attacking/defending" means for the attack or defence roll itself. The roll for the astromech isn't strictly attacking. I guess the question becomes does it mean generally at any point between the start and the end of the attack or more specifically when actually making the attack. Under "modify attack dice", the section for "card ability" does specify "attack dice" but I suppose you could argue you are using Poe's ability independently of the "card ability" step. Hmm.

This would also be a question for Lone Wolf, Jess Pava and possibly some other effects.

Although if this does work, it'd be important to note that you can only use such abilities once so you couldn't use Poe or Lone Wolf on the attack itself.

The roll for R5-K6 can be made whenever Poe spends his target lock during the attack process. During the attack, Poe would have at least two possible opportunities to spend a target lock: to fire a torpedo that requires spending a target lock token, or to make a reroll of his attack dice. Either of these opportunities could trigger R5-K6, and Poe could use his ability to alter the droid's roll.

But, because Poe's ability specifies a timing window (while attacking), he would only be able to use it once during the whole attack process (see Card Abilities, page 8). So that would be to either change a result from his attack roll , or to change the result of the R5-K6 roll - not both.

R5-K6 doesn't count as modifying attack dice , because it's not doing that. It's merely allowing a possible re-acquisition of the target lock. And using Poe to modify R5-K6's roll also isn't modifying the attack dice.

Lone Wolf and Jess Pava both have specified timing windows that are quite clear - it's while making an attack or defending against one. There's really no question there. Poe could use Lone Wolf to reroll an R5-K6 roll, and then his ability to change a focus result to an evade result.

There's no restriction on R5-K6 that states it must be used during the Modify Attack Dice or Modify Defense Dice steps.

The roll for R5-K6 can be made whenever Poe spends his target lock during the attack process.

Assuming "when attacking" means "during the attack process" and not "when actually attacking". I'm not necessarily saying you're wrong but is there any precedent or other example that would indicate one or the other?

But, because Poe's ability specifies a timing window (while attacking), he would only be able to use it once during the whole attack process (see Card Abilities, page 8). So that would be to either change a result from his attack roll , or to change the result of the R5-K6 roll - not both.

I'm not sure that's quite right either way you look at it. For modifications from card abilities:

"Card Ability: The attacker can resolve a card ability that modifies attack dice and that he has not already resolved during this attack."

If you assume this text applies to the astromech's ability, then, no, you can't use Poe's ability on the defence dice rolled as it is definitely not an "attack dice". On the other hand, you could interpret Poe using his ability not as part of the "modify dice step" but as a response to the trigger from the astromech of rolling a dice, then if Poe's ability has already been used in the modify dice step there's no prohibition for using it again as part of the astromech's roll (but not the other way around).

The roll for R5-K6 can be made whenever Poe spends his target lock during the attack process.

Assuming "when attacking" means "during the attack process" and not "when actually attacking". I'm not necessarily saying you're wrong but is there any precedent or other example that would indicate one or the other?

But, because Poe's ability specifies a timing window (while attacking), he would only be able to use it once during the whole attack process (see Card Abilities, page 8). So that would be to either change a result from his attack roll , or to change the result of the R5-K6 roll - not both.

I'm not sure that's quite right either way you look at it. For modifications from card abilities:

"Card Ability: The attacker can resolve a card ability that modifies attack dice and that he has not already resolved during this attack."

If you assume this text applies to the astromech's ability, then, no, you can't use Poe's ability on the defence dice rolled as it is definitely not an "attack dice". On the other hand, you could interpret Poe using his ability not as part of the "modify dice step" but as a response to the trigger from the astromech of rolling a dice, then while Poe definitely can't use his ability after resolving it during the attack, if Poe's ability has already been used in the modify dice step there's no prohibition for using it again as part of the astromech's roll.

What exactly is " when actually attacking " as opposed to " when attacking "? There is no such thing. " When attacking " is the whole attack process , steps 1-10. It needs no precedent.

R5-K6 triggers during an attack but R5-K6 is not a dice modification, so it doesn't apply to the Card Ability text you quoted above. Poe's ability is a dice modification, but his ability features the word " may " so that makes it optional for the player to use it during modification or at any other stage that might trigger it, like an R5-K6 modification. It's not restricted to the Modify Attack Dice step if there is something else that could trigger it, such as R5-K6. Poe's ability doesn't specify a specific dice as a restriction. It specifies you may change a focus result during an attack or during a defense.

I'm not sure what you mean with your last sentence: " there's no prohibition for using it again as part of the astromech's roll. " Poe can only use his ability once during a single attack process (steps 1-10) or once during a single defense (slightly more restricted to step 5 as there isn't another trigger for it during defense). He can use it for multiple defenses if he has a focus token for each one, but it's still only once per opportunity.

CARD ABILITIES (page 8)

Card abilities are resolved as instructed by the text on the card with the additional restrictions described below:

• A card ability cannot be resolved more than once during the timing specified on the card. For example, a card with the timing of “when defending” cannot be resolved twice by the defender during a single attack.

" When defending " and " when attacking " are the specified timings that restrict abilities such as Poe's to once per opportunity.

What exactly is " when actually attacking " as opposed to " when attacking "? There is no such thing. " When attacking " is the whole attack process , steps 1-10.

That's not what I meant. Put another way, R5K6 interrupts the attack. It is not part of the attack itself. I think you're probably right, it's just vague. Does it refer to any time after activating as an attacker and the attack being complete or more specifically while implementing the attack?

Here's an example, let's say Dengar has R5-P9 and Lone Wolf (pretty common build).

Here's R5-P8's text:

"Once per round after defending, you may roll 1 attack dice. On a {hit} result, the attacker suffers 1 damage. On a {crit} result, you and the attacker each suffer 1 damage."

So here's the question: can he use Lone Wolf on the attack dice? Lone Wolf says "When attacking or defending... you may reroll 1 of your blank results." But R5-P8 says "after defending" which means he's not defending any more (and therefore, the attacker is not attacking anymore). But according to the new flowchart, we're still in step 8 of "performing an attack" and the other ship must still be the attacker or the droid doesn't make sense.

So it looks like "when defending" either ends before step 8 or it means something subtly different. Either way there are distinctions between "Performing an Attack", being the " attacker/defender", and "attacking/defending" with only the first term being rigorously defined in the rules.

(It could be, for example, that attacking means steps 2 and 3 surrounded by the red box in the flowchart and defending is 4 and 5 with the green box - in which case yes Poe could use his ability on R5-K6 but Dengar couldn't use Lone Wolf on P5-P8. Looking at it, that would make sense with everything. But that's assumption on my part.)

A card ability cannot be resolved more than once during the timing specified on the card. For example, a card with the timing of “when defending” cannot be resolved twice by the defender during a single attack.

Quite right, I stand corrected.

I think the key is the title above the chart: "Timing Chart for Performing an Attack". That implies all 10 steps are considered to be the processes involved in performing an attack . An attack certainly isn't limited to steps 2-3 for the attacker or steps 4-5 for the defender. If the "attack" truly ended at step 7, then abilities that trigger in steps 8 or 9 would no longer have an "attacker" or "defender". So the "attacker" and "defender" retain those titles until the conclusion of step 10.

After re-reading the attack rules, I would concede that "when attacking" should probably be restricted to steps 1-7, and "after attacking" is now included in the attack process at steps 8-9. Step 10 was never there, but the rules for Destroyed Ships normally triggered at the end of step 7 and that covered it. This still won't change any interaction between Poe and R5-K6, as the droid can only trigger after a target lock is spent, and that can only happen in step 1.iv or 3.ii, and that's still "when attacking" for Poe.

Now with Lone Wolf and R5-P8, it does get a bit trickier. R5-P8 triggers specifically in step 8. Lone Wolf triggers any time after step 1.iv when the defender rolls a blank result. But by the strictest reading of the rules, this should make "when defending" last through to step 7 before becoming the "after defending" timing window, and would effectively exclude a Lone Wolf reroll from R5-P8 as the droid triggers too late.

To be honest, I think Poe and R5-K6 is pretty defined and there's no real problem there. But Lone Wolf and R5-P8 could be an interesting one to throw in Frank or Alex's direction. The key thing is how long through the attack process does the timing window of " when attacking " or " when defending " last? Is it steps 1-7 or 1-10?

Right but now you're defining an attack and the time when you're attacking as two different things and that's really messy. The problem is FFG are obviously wanting to errata as little as possible and are stuck with the somewhat imperfect terms that don't have the explicit definitions we might like.

I'm curious as to what the green box and the red box in the flow chart are signifying. Since red is the attack colour and green the defence colour, it would make sense that while 1-10 is the whole "performing an attack" process, red box is "attacking" and green box is "defending". That would gel with R5P8. The droids activates at step 8 and if "defending" is defined as the two steps in the green box, that makes sense.

To give some other examples, Jan Ors pilot gives another friendly ship an extra dice "when attacking". This falls at step 2, within the red box, so that works. So does Miranda's ability. There's a host of abilities that grant dice modifications to attacking or defending, all of these fall within the red and green boxes.

Thanks for your extensive answers so far.

Just for Clarification:

I can not spend a Fokustoken on R5-k6 or R5-P8.

Right?

But why not?

Right but now you're defining an attack and the time when you're attacking as two different things and that's really messy. The problem is FFG are obviously wanting to errata as little as possible and are stuck with the somewhat imperfect terms that don't have the explicit definitions we might like.

I'm curious as to what the green box and the red box in the flow chart are signifying. Since red is the attack colour and green the defence colour, it would make sense that while 1-10 is the whole "performing an attack" process, red box is "attacking" and green box is "defending". That would gel with R5P8. The droids activates at step 8 and if "defending" is defined as the two steps in the green box, that makes sense.

To give some other examples, Jan Ors pilot gives another friendly ship an extra dice "when attacking". This falls at step 2, within the red box, so that works. So does Miranda's ability. There's a host of abilities that grant dice modifications to attacking or defending, all of these fall within the red and green boxes.

Yeah, I admit it's a little messy, but an attack is definitely the whole ten steps. And the piece that needs defining is "when attacking".

The red and green boxes in the flow chart are merely indicating the red and green dice manipulations, i.e. establishing the number of dice and rolling, then modifying those dice. They should not be taken as defining " when attacking " and " when defending ", otherwise defending abilities like Dark Curse, Prince Xizor, Elusiveness, Sensor Jammer, and R7 Astromech would never trigger as they all affect things outside of steps 4 and 5. Likewise with attacking abilities that affect things outside steps 2 and 3, like Omega Leader, Wampa, Kath Scarlet, Lt Blount, Maj Rhymer, Ten Numb, Zuckuss, Crack Shot, Juke, Munitions Failsafe, Outmaneuver, Tail Gunner and R4-B11.

To define those coloured boxes as "when attacking" or "when defending", you would nullify all those abilities above, so clearly the timing window for each is much larger.

Yep you're right. The boxes can't be the limitations.

Thanks for your extensive answers so far.

Just for Clarification:

I can not spend a Fokustoken on R5-k6 or R5-P8.

Right?

But why not?

You definitely can't spend a focus token on these two at least. Focus tokens are spent during the Modify Attack Dice or Modify Defence Dice steps. P5-P8 doesn't activate in the Modify Attack Dice step at all, so that's a no. R5-K6 does activate in the Modify Attack Dice step, but it rolls a Defence dice and you can only modify Attack dice in this step.

Now if you had an ability that required a roll of the right kind of dice - maybe?

As another example: let's say you have R5-K6 and C3PO in an Arc. Can you use C3PO ("...before you roll 1 or more defense dice, you may guess...") on the roll from R5-K6. I think the answer is a pretty definite "yes", considering you can use C3PO on Lando's roll as precedent.

Thanks for your extensive answers so far.

Just for Clarification:

I can not spend a Fokustoken on R5-k6 or R5-P8.

Right?

But why not?

You definitely can't spend a focus token on these two at least. Focus tokens are spent during the Modify Attack Dice or Modify Defence Dice steps. P5-P8 doesn't activate in the Modify Attack Dice step at all, so that's a no. R5-K6 does activate in the Modify Attack Dice step, but it rolls a Defence dice and you can only modify Attack dice in this step.

I'd like to disagree on that one. The Rules do not state that you can only spend your focus token during the Modify ... Dice steps.

Rules Reference p.11:

When attacking or defending, the ship may spend that token to change all of its Focus results to Hit results (on attack dice) or Evade results (on defense dice)

Which brings us back to the question about "When attacking/defending" and "While attacking/defending"

p5 specifies spending them during the Modify Attack or Defence Steps respectively. Unless p11 is a separate rule and not just a summary of the more specific rules on p5.

Accidental post.

Can Poe change a focus to an evade on a R5-K6 diceroll,

after spending TL on an Attack?

"While attacking or defending, if you have a focus token, you may change 1 of your focus results to a hit or evade result."

" After spending your target lock , roll 1 defense die .

On an evade result, immediately acquire a target lock on that same ship. You cannot spend this target lock during this attack"

Its still crappy, but just theoretical?

its allowed~! spending the target lock is still during an attack. thats why its possible