I'm going to run Norra with Kyle Katarn (not interested in hearing why that's a bad idea at the time being) and for my mod I want EU or VT. I've managed to get TLT Jan and Jake into the list.

If I go with EU on Norra then I get no Autothrusters for Jake, but if I go with VT then Jake gets Autothrusters and has a point left over. I want EU to help me get turned around easier, but can I accomplish the same thing with a Barrel Roll?

Basically, what's the pros and cons of Boost versus Barrel Roll?

Here's my list right now:

Norra Wexley (41) ARC-170 (29), R2-D2 (4), Push the Limit (3), Kyle Katarn (3), Alliance Overhaul (0), Vectored Thrusters (2)

Jan Ors (31) HWK-290 (25), Twin Laser Turret (6)

Jake Farrell (28) A-Wing (24), A-Wing Test Pilot (0), Chardaan Refit (-2), Push the Limit (3), Autothrusters (2), Wired (1)

(Pst its a bad idea )

But the question of boost v roll is really a question of "got biggs?"

If yes, roll. It lets you play with formation and slow roll around obstacles. Its the more effective way to move with the ARC's low speed

If no, well EU to gtfo of dodge, unless not getting swiss cheesed isnt high on your list of priorities

An arc is about the easiest target for beginning of the game concetrated firepower to ruin.

Roll gets you around Asteroids better, boost lets you reangle your rear arc. Both options are rather valuable. Without Biggs, though, the boost allows you to also survive better in some cases.

The question is less one of Boost or Barrel Roll and more one of Vector Thrusters versus Engine Upgrade. And Vector Thrusters has one glaring advantage there.

Yeah.... I'll probably die fast, but my opponent is even newer at the game than I am so there's that...

The question is less one of Boost or Barrel Roll and more one of Vector Thrusters versus Engine Upgrade. And Vector Thrusters has one glaring advantage there.

Exactly. Is being able to get out of dodge a little faster worth giving up Autothrusters on Jake?

I have a bad feeling about this....

Okay, I fixed it all. See ya later, Jake.

Norra Wexley (43) ARC-170 (29), R2-D2 (4), Push the Limit (3), Kyle Katarn (3), Alliance Overhaul (0), Engine Upgrade (4)

Jan Ors (31) HWK-290 (25), Twin Laser Turret (6)

Biggs Darklighter (26) X-Wing (25), R4-D6 (1), Integrated Astromech (0)

Yes its worth it because norra is far more useful than jake

Ie she might actually hurt someone !

And yes, imo biggs is better

Neither.

If you fly a 38+ pointer without repositioning, youll probably have a bad time

Vts are clutch as hell on ARCs. Theyre not something you use every turn, but they will win games by setting up approaches, nlocks and arcdodges etc

You need to stay in formation with Biggs if you boost or brol out of range you're toast.

The question is less one of Boost or Barrel Roll and more one of Vector Thrusters versus Engine Upgrade. And Vector Thrusters has one glaring advantage there.

Exactly. Is being able to get out of dodge a little faster worth giving up Autothrusters on Jake?

I have a bad feeling about this....

Okay, I fixed it all. See ya later, Jake.

Norra Wexley (43) ARC-170 (29), R2-D2 (4), Push the Limit (3), Kyle Katarn (3), Alliance Overhaul (0), Engine Upgrade (4)

Jan Ors (31) HWK-290 (25), Twin Laser Turret (6)

Biggs Darklighter (26) X-Wing (25), R4-D6 (1), Integrated Astromech (0)

Don't listen to Fickle. Fly what you want. Run jake, take vectored thrusters, so you can give jake his Autothrusters, and most importantly, have fun!

Okay Slight edit: If this is for a tournament, listen to fickle. If this is a casual match, fly what you want.

Two-hard turn followed by a barrel roll in can be really nasty with that rear arc. Generally, I'd rather have that barrel roll -- plus, it's two points cheaper. Boost is a great action, but I don't think it's that great on an ARC.

VT for Norra. Especially if you're carrying a focus from Kyle. Use that extra action!

I would say not for Braylen. If you're using Gunner especially; chances are you're carrying a single stress from the previous round. I've always thought about upgrading Gunner on him to Luke with those two extra points. Really punch that damage through.

Wouldn't take Jake without ATs personally. Very cheap get out clause for 2 points.

When I tried EU on Norra, I found it was getting her out the fight (for regen great), but also keeping her out the fight (you need to cause damage, bad). ARCs are great when they're going slow.

VT for Norra. Especially if you're carrying a focus from Kyle. Use that extra action!

I would say not for Braylen. If you're using Gunner especially; chances are you're carrying a single stress from the previous round. I've always thought about upgrading Gunner on him to Luke with those two extra points. Really punch that damage through.

Wouldn't take Jake without ATs personally. Very cheap get out clause for 2 points.

When I tried EU on Norra, I found it was getting her out the fight (for regen great), but also keeping her out the fight (you need to cause damage, bad). ARCs are great when they're going slow.

Pretty much this for me:

Both boost & barrel roll are great for lining up either of your firing arcs, but the boost has the other side effect of moving you forwards.

This forward movement will tend to force longer ranged shots when firing out of the rear, combined with a lack of tailgunner (I know I'm not supposed to mention it) this will tend to make the rear arc fairly ineffectual as you kinda want to force short range shots out of the rear to compensate for the reduced attack power in that arc.

TLDR: Engine upgrade puts you too far away from the target when firing out of the rear arc, barrel roll allows you to remain at ranges where you can effectively inflict damage.

You need to stay in formation with Biggs if you boost or brol out of range you're toast.

Well, first, you can broll and still be in range 1. Range 1 is a bit longer than two small ship bases

Second, Biggs is gonna die first (why else would you bring him?) and youll have vts then

Kinda important after your cover has been blown (up)

Actually. there is sometimes an argument for poking your toe out of cover with Biggs.

Biggs gets shot and dies. This will happen and is his accepted function in the game. But the one thing that's even better than everyone having to ignore shooting at a valuable target to fire at the mustachio-ed Hagonite is if people end up having to split fire.

A lot ofplayers won't (because they realise it's a bad plan) but some might. If you can tempt a player to split their shots between biggs and an agile (or at least, evasive) regen-capable target, you can do a lot of good.

Don't try this against torpedo-boats, though.

If I go with EU on Norra then I get no Autothrusters for Jake, but if I go with VT then Jake gets Autothrusters and has a point left over. I want EU to help me get turned around easier, but can I accomplish the same thing with a Barrel Roll?

No. Well, in a barrel roll, you can dodge arcs and line up shots more easily, as well as jink around rocks and other ships.

It's better in close, and pairs well with using the ARC-170's twin arcs of fire - but - as fickle will be swift to point out - using the tail guns effectively is easiest with a tailgunner.

Boost is more for long, sweeping attacks where you extend the range and either turn about or K-turn, then come back in with the forward guns. To do that effectively, you need the ability to extend on faster opponents, which means you need boost (and, ideally, Nien Numb for a straight 4).

I'd certainly agree that boost is better for avoiding 'head on' jousts with better jousters (like Torpedo-armed jumpmasters), and that's probably the most important thing for Norra - she's not invincible, she's just good, and she needs a way to avoid finding herselt staring down the guns of something like a TIE swarm.

I fully agree. That's why I try to adsorb a couple of attacks with Norra in the early game, as she's able to regen those lost shields if not struck too hard.

I think Biggs is there to protect Braylen for the most part, in orded to enable him to unload his stress-load before being focused

Fickle, how do you deploy your ships? I generally put the Arcs in the front and Biggs back to Braylen, with this couple on the closer side to the enemy, but sometimes it can be an issue as Biggs may bump on Norra if turning her side or Braylen if he barrels or go slow, so maybe a in-line deploy could be better.

How about you?

I tend to split my forces with Biggs and Braylen and Norra flanking OR, Biggs and Norra with Braylen flanking pending on the target.

Fickle is right, sometimes using Biggs to split fire is more advantageous than keeping everything within his range 1. Creating the choice is a dilemma for the opposing player.

I'm not a great X-Wing player, but in the tournament I went 2 - 3 I found that I was a lot more successful when I spilt them two on one side and one on the other. Do you ignore Norra, who will undoubtedly regen your split fire and punish you for it, or do you ignore Braylen and probably damage Biggs, but really regret it on the next turn. Works both ways.

Like the latest Team Covenant article on X-Wing archetypes evolving, the list has a consistent damage dealer (Norra), control (Braylen) and survivability (Biggs). It's a solid balance. Better players will go far with it and I hope to see it at Worlds.

I fully agree. That's why I try to adsorb a couple of attacks with Norra in the early game, as she's able to regen those lost shields if not struck too hard.

I think Biggs is there to protect Braylen for the most part, in orded to enable him to unload his stress-load before being focused

Fickle, how do you deploy your ships? I generally put the Arcs in the front and Biggs back to Braylen, with this couple on the closer side to the enemy, but sometimes it can be an issue as Biggs may bump on Norra if turning her side or Braylen if he barrels or go slow, so maybe a in-line deploy could be better.

How about you?

ARCs in front, biggs behind taking it at range 2 (which i think has singlehandedly killed any enthusiasm for Fearlessness in my local community )

Of course ill **** up and get norra behind biggs on occasion (goddamnit, biggs), but thats my fault

While Biggs is largely for braylen, norras regen is also largely useless if she gets concetrated down when both squads are st full strength. 1 agi is understandably crap at absorbing lots of rolls and regen (and her ability) are capped in the amount of damage they cancel

Biggs completely puts a stop to that, unless your dice crap out and you dint trade biggs for anything, in which case...well the poor guy tried

I bought a burrito and some pizza.

And a Mt. Dew.

EDIT: I totally put this in the wrong place, my bad.