As someone who regularly played Carnor Jax until the last couple of waves, I find Old Teroch very interesting, especially in an X7 meta. However, at his cheapest iteration, He seems to come in at around 30 points (Title, 1 PT EPT, Autothrusters).

That leaves 70 points to play around with. What do you find as effective options to bring with him?

34 point rau and a manaroo, if i had to guess

36 points of roo, so 9 points of upgrades, buys you at least a nice and simple k4 and feedback with adaptability

give manny unhinged to better facilitate blocking (3 bank into k4 into possible roll and block while still passing at least a TL) and i guess enjoy a ps 9 and 3 (v scouts) bid @ 97 points total

bid extra important v dengaroo due to initiative order when triggering simultaneous abilities

I have thought about a Mindlink list with Manaroo and Guri.

Manaroo (27)
Attanni Mindlink (1)
K4 Security Droid (3)
Unhinged Astromech (1)

Guri (30)
Attanni Mindlink (1)
Sensor Jammer (4)
Autothrusters (2)
Virago (1)

Old Teroch (26)
Attanni Mindlink (1)
Autothrusters (2)
Concord Dawn Protector (1)

Total: 100

View in Yet Another Squad Builder

Might make me buy one of these little fang things after all.

I have thought about a Mindlink list with Manaroo and Guri.

Manaroo (27)

Attanni Mindlink (1)

K4 Security Droid (3)

Unhinged Astromech (1)

Guri (30)

Attanni Mindlink (1)

Sensor Jammer (4)

Autothrusters (2)

Virago (1)

Old Teroch (26)

Attanni Mindlink (1)

Autothrusters (2)

Concord Dawn Protector (1)

Total: 100

View in Yet Another Squad Builder

Might make me buy one of these little fang things after all.

I was actually thinking mindlink would be a good option for Old T in a list with him. It gives him the opportunity to grab a pair of focus tokens or reposition and still end up with a focus token.

34 point rau and a manaroo, if i had to guess

36 points of roo, so 9 points of upgrades, buys you at least a nice and simple k4 and feedback with adaptability

give manny unhinged to better facilitate blocking (3 bank into k4 into possible roll and block while still passing at least a TL) and i guess enjoy a ps 9 and 3 (v scouts) bid @ 97 points total

bid extra important v dengaroo due to initiative order when triggering simultaneous abilities

Yeah, I've heard of this list but I'm not super excited about it. I don't know that I want to fly two agility focused ships.

What you dont want to fly green dice dependent ships?

What an alien reasoning that i cant relate to at all...

Old Teroch is definitely good right now cause he counters X7 Defenders.

Goto EPT's for him are Attani Mindlink or PTL for action economy.

Manaroo doesn't fit my play style, but she is a good option.

I've been trying to create lists with the other scum PS7 pilots.

Bossk, Zuckuss, Kavil, Kath, Ketsu Onyo, and Tel Truvara

What you dont want to fly green dice dependent ships?

What an alien reasoning that i cant relate to at all...

I used to fly 3 and did very well with them, but Zuckuss and super accurate munitions sort of broke that for me

Old Teroch is definitely good right now cause he counters X7 Defenders.

Goto EPT's for him are Attani Mindlink or PTL for action economy.

Manaroo doesn't fit my play style, but she is a good option.

I've been trying to create lists with the other scum PS7 pilots.

Bossk, Zuckuss, Kavil, Kath, Ketsu Onyo, and Tel Truvara

Exactly the kind of thing I was thinking as well. I would also include NDru in there.

I don't know about old Terry but I've been having fun and success with:

Asajj Ventress - ptl, k4 (or dengar), engine, slicer tools

Fenn Rau - ptl, title, thrusters

Binyare - slicer tools.

Gives you 5 points to play with, which I'm testing as rigged cargo on ventress and seismic torp on fenn for some unexpected maneuvering. Gives me 2 points bid too.

I think you could pretty easily change up some of these pieces to use Terry instead of Fenn.

Plannimg to try out him with Asajj Ventress and 4Lom.. VI for Old Teroch so he can be there with other ps9 ships and strip them from tokens..

Part of me wonders if a couple regular old TLTs are the way to go. You set up a cone of token stripping with OT, and if they get caught in it, TLTs hammer them. If they reposition out of the way, TLTs hammer them. Either way, you're shooting at them without tokens, either because they were stripped by OT, or they used actions to move instead of defend.

What you guys think if VI is better for Old Teroch to catch enemy ships in firing arc rather than PTL?

I have been trying to build good list only with the Shadow Caster, Mist Hunter and Protectorate expansion pack cards, just because dont wanna buy ships solely for cards at the moment, long story short, my rest of the xwing collection is like 10000km away, so trying to buy only ships I dont have at my home!

I think you guys are missing the obvious:

Palob.

What's better than one guy stealing your dice mods? TWO guys!

I'm not sure what the best setup is - I'm thinking something like Cloaking Device and Dorsal Turret to maximize his defense and still give him offense if necessary.

That still leaves 46 points (absent EPT for Old Teroch), so some kind of heavy hitter would seem like a good thing to add. This is my thought on a Mindlink list (Note that Palob 'assigns' the token to himself, so a stolen token still counts for mindlink shenanigans!):

Palob Godalhi
Attanni Mindlink
Dorsal Turret
Cloaking Device
Ship Total: 26

Old Teroch
Attanni Mindlink
Autothrusters
Concord Dawn Protector
Ship Total: 30

YV-666: Bossk
Attanni Mindlink
"Mangler" Cannon
Greedo
"Gonk"
Boba Fett
Ship Total: 44

The Party Bus is bare minimum what I consider good. Bossk/Mangler is well known, Greedo adds to his offense, Boba can trigger more often, and Gonk is doubleplus good on the YV thanks to its 6 shields and the Mindlink increases the action economy to the point that it's starting to get a bit scary - and helps protect against Greedo's downside.

I'm not even sure how necessary Autothrusters are to Old Teroch - is it a kneejerk to include them on every ship with Boost? - but I wouldn't know what else to spend those two points on.

I'm not even sure how necessary Autothrusters are to Old Teroch - is it a kneejerk to include them on every ship with Boost? - but I wouldn't know what else to spend those two points on.

Autothrusters is hardly 'kneejerk'. It is absolutely a steal for only 2 points. I mean, have you ever faced a list that had turrets in it?

BTW, here's an idea to get Palob durability and perhaps take some heat off Teroch:

IG88C w/ mindlink, FCS, IG-2000 & thrusters = 41

Old Teroch w/ mindlink, title & thrusters = 30

Palob w/ mindlink, IG88D, dorsal turret & engine = 29

100

Engine helps Palob get into token stealing range (and gives him an evade token!). You could also drop FCS from IG to give Palob an ion cannon to take better advantage of the fact targets are likely to be tokenless when he shoots...

I'm not even sure how necessary Autothrusters are to Old Teroch - is it a kneejerk to include them on every ship with Boost? - but I wouldn't know what else to spend those two points on.

Autothrusters is hardly 'kneejerk'. It is absolutely a steal for only 2 points. I mean, have you ever faced a list that had turrets in it?

BTW, here's an idea to get Palob durability and perhaps take some heat off Teroch:

IG88C w/ mindlink, FCS, IG-2000 & thrusters = 41

Old Teroch w/ mindlink, title & thrusters = 30

Palob w/ mindlink, IG88D, dorsal turret & engine = 29

100

Engine helps Palob get into token stealing range (and gives him an evade token!). You could also drop FCS from IG to give Palob an ion cannon to take better advantage of the fact targets are likely to be tokenless when he shoots...

Make that dorsal turret an Autoblaster Turret!

I'm not even sure how necessary Autothrusters are to Old Teroch - is it a kneejerk to include them on every ship with Boost? - but I wouldn't know what else to spend those two points on.

Autothrusters is hardly 'kneejerk'. It is absolutely a steal for only 2 points. I mean, have you ever faced a list that had turrets in it?

BTW, here's an idea to get Palob durability and perhaps take some heat off Teroch:

IG88C w/ mindlink, FCS, IG-2000 & thrusters = 41

Old Teroch w/ mindlink, title & thrusters = 30

Palob w/ mindlink, IG88D, dorsal turret & engine = 29

100

Engine helps Palob get into token stealing range (and gives him an evade token!). You could also drop FCS from IG to give Palob an ion cannon to take better advantage of the fact targets are likely to be tokenless when he shoots...

Autothrusters only works at past range 2 and/or out of enemy arc. Old Teroch only works within Range 1 and inside of enemy arc. The upgrade and ability are at loggerheads, directly contradicting each other - do you go for the autothrusters, or do you go for the ability? It's like giving Palob a TLT; yes, it's the best turret overall, but it goes against what Palob wants to be doing.

I ratha resent your questioning of my tactical ability for wondering if, perhaps, this is the one model that doesn't NEED Autothrusters instantly. Which of course begged the question, "What else is there to spend it on?" Crew or Vectored Thrusters on Palob comes to mind.

I'm not saying AT is bad, if it turns even one Evade that's +1 HP for 2 points.

Though I also like that IG88 list quite a bit.

I like the ideas so far.

I thought about Palob but I feel like he gets expensive, but maybe his ability and build can mitigate that. What about cloaking on Palob instead of engine?

I have had a lot of fun and some success with this list:

Palob Godalhi — HWK-290 20

Adaptability 0

Twin Laser Turret 6

Recon Specialist 3

Cloaking Device 2

Moldy Crow 3

Ship Total: 34

Old Teroch — Protectorate Starfighter 26

Veteran Instincts 1

Autothrusters 2

Concord Dawn Protector 1

Ship Total: 30

Trandoshan Slaver — YV-666 29

4-LOM 1

Dengar 3

Zuckuss 1

Inertial Dampeners 1

Ship Total: 35

As for questioning autothrusters think about it less as the abilities being at odds and more the abilities covering each other. The Fenn I run uses autothrusters and the title and that means that range 3 I get 4 dice with a blank turned into an evade, range 1 I get 4 dice with an added evade result unless they have me in arc and I don't have them (rare) and range 2 out of arc I get 3 dice with an evade from a blank. With title and thrusters these ships (especially fenn but really any of them) only have 1 weak zone which is range 2 in arc. They also should be able to range control well enough to almost never be in that zone so title and thrusters combine to just make them incredibly tanky without an evade action and even when they're tokenless.

Autothrusters only works at past range 2 and/or out of enemy arc. Old Teroch only works within Range 1 and inside of enemy arc. The upgrade and ability are at loggerheads, directly contradicting each other - do you go for the autothrusters, or do you go for the ability? It's like giving Palob a TLT; yes, it's the best turret overall, but it goes against what Palob wants to be doing.

I ratha resent your questioning of my tactical ability for wondering if, perhaps, this is the one model that doesn't NEED Autothrusters instantly. Which of course begged the question, "What else is there to spend it on?" Crew or Vectored Thrusters on Palob comes to mind.

Its not that I was questioning your tactical ability, but rather pointing out how common turrets are. If you are in a meta that is a turret wasteland, then yes, I would consider not taking them. But here's some points to consider before you reach for something else:

-How often (realistically) is Ol' T going to be in R1 inside an opponent's firing arc to proc his ability? Compare that to how often he is going to be fired upon by a turret, or by enemy ships at R3 (conditions needed to proc thrusters). In my experience, you will see autothrusters activating more frequently over time than even his ability.

-And if you are using his ability (and therefore not using thrusters), chances are you are in a good position and possibly winning the game (which is good!). But that won't be all the time. Thrusters gives you an edge in bad situations and can be the difference from something going from bad to worse (or even unwinnable).

-Lastly (but this is anecdotal), I've flown star vipers a ton, and always put autothrusters on them. In the beginning, I tried shield upgrade and other options, but in the end, I found thrusters was more valuable more often than any other upgrade they could equip. And fang fighters basically have the same options that vipers do, so I am confident in saying thrusters are almost always going to be 2 points well spent.

I like the ideas so far.

I thought about Palob but I feel like he gets expensive, but maybe his ability and build can mitigate that. What about cloaking on Palob instead of engine?

I love cloaking device on Palob. Works great as a cheap alternative. I prefer engine, ultimately (although I'm guilty of running 'phat Palob' with both). You can use the decloak either to dive into range to activate his ability or to kite out of enemy firing arcs to save Palob's butt.

bumpmaster + party bus + OT . fun times to be had by all.

34 point rau and a manaroo, if i had to guess

36 points of roo, so 9 points of upgrades, buys you at least a nice and simple k4 and feedback with adaptability

give manny unhinged to better facilitate blocking (3 bank into k4 into possible roll and block while still passing at least a TL) and i guess enjoy a ps 9 and 3 (v scouts) bid @ 97 points total

bid extra important v dengaroo due to initiative order when triggering simultaneous abilities

Fenn Rau

PTL

Thrusters

Title

Old Teroch

VI

Thrusters

Title

Manaroo

Exp. Interface

K4 Security Droid

Unhinged Astromech

Black Market Slicer Tools

With EI the BMST comes in more handy than you might think. Faced a corran build and my opponent only used PTL once with him. That alone makes it stay.

This is my list at the moment and I like it.

98 points

Fenn Rau [Push the Limit, Concord Dawn Protector, Autothrusters] (34)

Old Teroch [Veteran Instincts, Concord Dawn Protector, Autothrusters] (30)

Manaroo [Push the Limit, Recon Specialist, Unhinged Astromech] (34)

It leaves 2 points for initiative, or an upgrade or two on Manny if you are so inclined. I think VI is important on Teroch as it allows you the best chance to use his ability.

Also Rec spec is their so You give 1 of your Fangs either 2 mods on defense or one mod on offense and defense. Manny is there as a blocker, not to run away as in a Dengaroo list.

Autothrusters only works at past range 2 and/or out of enemy arc. Old Teroch only works within Range 1 and inside of enemy arc. The upgrade and ability are at loggerheads, directly contradicting each other - do you go for the autothrusters, or do you go for the ability? It's like giving Palob a TLT; yes, it's the best turret overall, but it goes against what Palob wants to be doing.

I ratha resent your questioning of my tactical ability for wondering if, perhaps, this is the one model that doesn't NEED Autothrusters instantly. Which of course begged the question, "What else is there to spend it on?" Crew or Vectored Thrusters on Palob comes to mind.

I'm not saying AT is bad, if it turns even one Evade that's +1 HP for 2 points.

Though I also like that IG88 list quite a bit.

Look at it this way: Its a failsafe. Just like TLT is good on Palob. Sure, you want to use your ability, but if you don't get to you are at the perfect TLT range. Likewise if your opponent dodges the TLT, he still gets punished by Palobs ability. Rather than having a ship thats very punishing at range 1-2 and nonexistant at range three you now have one thats good at all ranges and extremely good at range 2.

Your opponent doesn't want to be at range 1 of Old Terroch. Well, with Autothrusters now he also doesn't want to be at 3. Hitting exactly range 2 isn't the hardest thing in the world, but it introduces a new source for error. And then you also have a field day against turrets, which you may or may not meet, but thats a different story and not even needed for ATs to be good.