Guys, do you really think Sato will allow you to replace dice after the pool has been rolled? For 32 pts?

**** no. Well that's my hope anyway

Add two of any colour combo pre roll seems good enough anyway.

But it wouldn't be suprised if it is replace or care to much TBH.

Jerry is pretty good. If you fly VSDs/ISD you know what kills them is their turning. When things slip by there is no way to keep tracking them. Now there is. Instead of needing Motti to survive damage let Jerry Nav you out of harms way.

You say that then Salvation rolls 16 damage at long range!

A man can dream

Sato will be interesting. I think it goes he gets picked up en mass, abandoned when it's clear 2-4 awings isn't enough, 8-10 squadron becomes the thing for those that want him but then the question is how many ships can you fit that can actually use Sato? Sure every ship can use him...but can a Squadron list perform well when it's got a bunch of combo MC30/Salvation/Guppy with OE/Defiance that lots are salivating about. I don't think so It will be harder than people are giving it credit. You either build the efficent/effective squadron list you want to build or you build the ship list with upgrades. It has proven hard to do both in one list.

Sato would not only be useful for upgrading your fickle red dice at long range to other dice AND triggering crits associated with those colors at long range but he keeps on working even at closer ranges. A double-arcing MC30 Scout goes to a 5 rerollable crit-triggering black dice on the side and 3 of the same from the front (remember Sato's ability triggers for each attack, so you benefit twice while double-arcing). The main downside is his expense in points and need to combine ships with squadrons. Due to the points tightness, I'm expecting him to be popular with mixed arms fleets featuring lighter more inexpensive ships. Likely no large ships involved. Much like how Tycho is nearly mandatory with Rieekan, Han Solo has a lot of synergy with Sato (activating first with Grit, jumping up to do his thing and hug an enemy ship prior to your first activation).

Dual Turbolaser Turrets have been covered. They even out the fickleness of the red dice. It's effectively a once-per-turn better version of spending a Concentrate Fire token only it is for red dice only. That's not bad and definitely worth considering on something like an Assault Frigate, Arquitens, or Nebulon-B that lacks the dual Evades that makes Turbolaser Reroute Circuits particularly appealing but doesn't have the dice quantity to make defense token mitigation (like XI7s) better like it is on larger ships with bigger dice pools.

Jerrjerrod is going to be amazing with VSDs in particular but he's potentially useful with every Imperial ship, notably those who get maneuver chart segments where their first segment is empty (so also Raiders, also ISDs, presumably the Arquitens as well). It's important to note that you can take the damage to any hull zone you like, so your shields will eat it. With something like a Raider that often dies with its opposing shield zones completely healthy, that's not a big give-up. With something heftier like an ISD or VSD, he allows you to Engineering tokens/commands into super-Navigates (from the prior turn). Your VSDs/ISDs won't need to Navigate nearly so frequently (but the Nav dial yaw+Jerrjerrod yaw can stack, so on a crucial turn it can help) and can more "safely" choose Engineering and/or Squadrons instead. It looks like it's going to be an amazing ability.

I think you have missed just how good Sato will be. I have come up with three different small ships that will love it. Salvation black dice that has hit/crit causes 3 damage and with a cf that is posisblely 11 damage (red double or crit and 3 black dice with hit crit) cr90b with leading shots can do 4 damage from two arcs with a cf at the side (leading shots provides the re roll of you need it) and finally mc30 with 5 black out the side and 4 (with a cf) out the front that is a lot of damage that can be caused by have a couple of squadrons at range one of a ship. These squadrons don't even have to be unengaged either. Combine this with han moving first or first player and tycho moving in preceeding squadron phase and a world of hurt awaits.

I think you have missed just how good Sato will be. I have come up with three different small ships that will love it. Salvation black dice that has hit/crit causes 3 damage and with a cf that is posisblely 11 damage (red double or crit and 3 black dice with hit crit) cr90b with leading shots can do 4 damage from two arcs with a cf at the side (leading shots provides the re roll of you need it) and finally mc30 with 5 black out the side and 4 (with a cf) out the front that is a lot of damage that can be caused by have a couple of squadrons at range one of a ship. These squadrons don't even have to be unengaged either. Combine this with han moving first or first player and tycho moving in preceeding squadron phase and a world of hurt awaits.

I like how none of these are carriers but the squadron component requirment still 'works'. Only Tycho can move freely the rest require Grit/Intel. If Sato A-wings are a thing when you face the mirror you can pin them with your Speed 5 Squadrons and Imps have Interceptors as well.

Are these 5 black dice MC30s going to afford the required activations, squadrons, Sato, upgrades and a bid to take this awesome 5 black dice close range shot? How many Rebel squadron lists currently use Salavtion? Are they really going to run Salvation, dropping Yavaris or take both? You want to run two Neb Bs? That is fine by me! Bring back the 1 shield side arc without Rieekan. My Demo is pretty tired of flying past Transports and Tie Phantoms are fast movers who can actually bombers.

It's easy to see the potential combos, harder to put into practice. Yes Sato can good be, if every limitation is met.

Jerjerrod is going to be awesome for almost any imperial ship. Being able to double yaw at the first joint whenever you need to is amazing, and that is immune to any dial modification. It lets ISDs push squadrons and keep their front arcs to bear, it allows Vics to concentrate fire and still be more maneuverable, and it allows Speed 3 gladiators to be even more maneuverable than ever, and lets Interdictors double yaw twice if engine teching. The only thing it isn't super great for is a Radier, but I could still see uses there. It's not like Raiders can redirect anyway. I think he might be one of the best imperial commanders. Also, keep in mind if you don't need his ability, you don't HAVE to use it. I see him coming up maybe once or twice per ship per game, but I also see him being absolutely clutch when he does.

I think you have missed just how good Sato will be. I have come up with three different small ships that will love it. Salvation black dice that has hit/crit causes 3 damage and with a cf that is posisblely 11 damage (red double or crit and 3 black dice with hit crit) cr90b with leading shots can do 4 damage from two arcs with a cf at the side (leading shots provides the re roll of you need it) and finally mc30 with 5 black out the side and 4 (with a cf) out the front that is a lot of damage that can be caused by have a couple of squadrons at range one of a ship. These squadrons don't even have to be unengaged either. Combine this with han moving first or first player and tycho moving in preceeding squadron phase and a world of hurt awaits.

I like how none of these are carriers but the squadron component still 'works'.

It's easy to see the potential combos, harder to pull of in practice.

The deal is you only need one squadron, right? So even though those ships aren't carriers, you can still throw a squadron command. ONE squadron moves within one and now he procs. I see him being used a lot with Hawks and Tycho as they are never tied down, and I also see him as a really great 2nd player option general.

Guys, do you really think Sato will allow you to replace dice after the pool has been rolled? For 32 pts?

Sato will be a modify so yes. Swapping two blanks for any 2 dice on each of your attacks will be worth it.

I was pondering Sato recently. If he is post-roll, I'd love to use him in my triple Neb plus Liberty fleet. Right now, I'm using Garm and TRCs. Sato, for 7 points more than Garm, allows me to comfortably forgo the TRCs on the Nebs and Leading Shots on the Lib. The net savings on upgrades comes in at 18 points. I'm already running escort variants on the Nebs for the AS batteries alongside Tycho and 3 A-Wings for squadron cover. Taking Sato lets me take another A-Wing, which will in all likelihood be Shara Bey. Tycho is a slippery bastard with his Scatter. Having two speed 5 squadrons with counter (one with SUPER counter) and scatter sounds great to me.

I think you have missed just how good Sato will be. I have come up with three different small ships that will love it. Salvation black dice that has hit/crit causes 3 damage and with a cf that is posisblely 11 damage (red double or crit and 3 black dice with hit crit) cr90b with leading shots can do 4 damage from two arcs with a cf at the side (leading shots provides the re roll of you need it) and finally mc30 with 5 black out the side and 4 (with a cf) out the front that is a lot of damage that can be caused by have a couple of squadrons at range one of a ship. These squadrons don't even have to be unengaged either. Combine this with han moving first or first player and tycho moving in preceeding squadron phase and a world of hurt awaits.

I like how none of these are carriers but the squadron component requirment still 'works'. Only Tycho can move freely the rest require Grit/Intel. If Sato A-wings are a thing when you face the mirror you can pin them with your Speed 5 Squadrons and Imps have Interceptors as well.

Are these 5 black dice MC30s going to afford the required activations, squadrons, Sato, upgrades and a bid to take this awesome 5 black dice close range shot? How many Rebel squadron lists currently use Salavtion? Are they really going to run Salvation, dropping Yavaris or take both? You want to run two Neb Bs? That is fine by me! Bring back the 1 shield side arc without Rieekan. My Demo is pretty tired of flying past Transports and Tie Phantoms are fast movers who can actually bombers.

It's easy to see the potential combos, harder to put into practice. Yes Sato can good be, if every limitation is met.

That is completely true, getting it off will be the issue but if you can pull it off for one turn against an isd or interdictor with only Han or 1 other squadron and completely destroy from full health it will put the opponent on the back foot from turn 3

The only thing it isn't super great for is a Radier, but I could still see uses there. It's not like Raiders can redirect anyway. I think he might be one of the best imperial commanders. Also, keep in mind if you don't need his ability, you don't HAVE to use it. I see him coming up maybe once or twice per ship per game, but I also see him being absolutely clutch when he does.

At speeds 1 and 2 I agree. But at speed 3 and particularly 4, Jerrjerrod makes Raiders exceedingly maneuverable by replacing their first blank joint with a double-click joint at the cost of one shield the Raider was questionably going to use anyways. I tend to use my Raiders at speed 3+ rarely when they need to rush to get to the right place, but it's conceivable that Jerrjerrod could actively prefer them at such breakneck speeds more frequently than every other Imperial commander.

Guys, do you really think Sato will allow you to replace dice after the pool has been rolled? For 32 pts?

IMO at the moment the closest fit we have is that you will spend and add dice during the modify dice step. (Given that Spend and Add gives a Replacement of dice.) If you were supposed to replace prior to attacking wouldn't the timing clause have been better as "Before rolling your dice pool....."?

That said there is every possibility that there is some rules text included on the ships insert page explaining what "Replace" means and the timing of its use. Just as we have the new upgrade icon and the text that will go along with it. Failing a clarification, then an FAQ may well add some light to the card.

As for 32 points having any relevance that is far to open for debate, as would be almost every upgrade card and commanders. Is 32 points, plus the ships that may take advantage of Satos' ability and the cost of the Squadrons be worth the effect? Is Targeting Scramblers worth 4 points or have I payed 4+the cost of the ship to get that effect?

For me the Victory needs two things for me to consider it in a tourney setting. The first is addressed by admiral jerry which is good. The second is survivability. For a ship that needs to close head on it is just way to vulnerable. But I have hopes for the other wave 5 cards on that score.

Guys, do you really think Sato will allow you to replace dice after the pool has been rolled? For 32 pts?

Do you think ackbar will allow you to add 2red dice for 38pts?

I mean whats the difference?

The difference is we know what Ackbar does

So Sato requires you to toss in an A-wing for long-range gunnery. Or maybe go HWK to keep up with those ships.

Definitely a limitation there, but not sure how big it is. How does it compare to Vader's or Ackbar's limitations. I dunno. Will have to test it to know.

Replacing before or after - it's not a huge difference, but replacing after is of course better.

I guess I'm just pessimistic by nature, and therefore have a hard time believing we'll get the better version.

Apparently, the issue is not clear even among you guys.

Let's take the problem on the other side shall we?

If the dual turbo laser allow you to swap dice after your rolled them, then I believe it is pretty insane because on a relatively large ship you're almost guarantee to get at least one blank and even if you don't you can also choose to swap an unspent accuracy. It means that the DTT actually brings you one red die for only 5 points !!! for reminder spinal armament and enhance armament brings 1 red dice on rear or front for twice the price!

It seems a bit too good in comparison to other upgrades that exist to be right.

Beside in terms of wording, wouldn't they use the expression "spend a die" just like on leading shot rather than "remove 1 die from the attack pool" if that was the case?

It seems too bad to be what is written on it or too good to be what you guys think it is., the exact same thing can be said on Sato.

Apparently, the issue is not clear even among you guys.

Let's take the problem on the other side shall we?

If the dual turbo laser allow you to swap dice after your rolled them, then I believe it is pretty insane because on a relatively large ship you're almost guarantee to get at least one blank and even if you don't you can also choose to swap an unspent accuracy. It means that the DTT actually brings you one red die for only 5 points !!! for reminder spinal armament and enhance armament brings 1 red dice on rear or front for twice the price!

It seems a bit too good in comparison to other upgrades that exist to be right.

Beside in terms of wording, wouldn't they use the expression "spend a die" just like on leading shot rather than "remove 1 die from the attack pool" if that was the case?

It seems too bad to be what is written on it or too good to be what you guys think it is., the exact same thing can be said on Sato.

You are forgetting two things:

If you happen to not roll a blank its a 5 points of nothing.

Opportunity cost of not taking XI7s etc.

Apparently, the issue is not clear even among you guys.

Let's take the problem on the other side shall we?

If the dual turbo laser allow you to swap dice after your rolled them, then I believe it is pretty insane because on a relatively large ship you're almost guarantee to get at least one blank and even if you don't you can also choose to swap an unspent accuracy. It means that the DTT actually brings you one red die for only 5 points !!! for reminder spinal armament and enhance armament brings 1 red dice on rear or front for twice the price!

It seems a bit too good in comparison to other upgrades that exist to be right.

Beside in terms of wording, wouldn't they use the expression "spend a die" just like on leading shot rather than "remove 1 die from the attack pool" if that was the case?

It seems too bad to be what is written on it or too good to be what you guys think it is., the exact same thing can be said on Sato.

I just go off what the RRG says.

Attack Pool

During an attack, the attack pool is comprised of all dice

being used for that attack. This includes the dice gathered

prior to rolling as well as the dice after they are rolled.

So for sato and DTT it can be before or after your roll, clearly one of those options is more optimum than the other in most cases!

Maxim

Sato is to MC30s with APTs

what

Rhymer is to Tie Bombers.

Arrggghhh its not even on the sodding boat yet....

Arrggghhh its not even on the sodding boat yet....

It might be.

I mean, who says the statuses are ever accurate.

Arrggghhh its not even on the sodding boat yet....

It might be.

I mean, who says the statuses are ever accurate.

Hear, hear!

If the dual turbo laser allow you to swap dice after your rolled them, then I believe it is pretty insane because on a relatively large ship you're almost guarantee to get at least one blank and even if you don't you can also choose to swap an unspent accuracy. It means that the DTT actually brings you one red die for only 5 points !!! for reminder spinal armament and enhance armament brings 1 red dice on rear or front for twice the price!

It seems a bit too good in comparison to other upgrades that exist to be right.

You must exhaust DTT to get it to work, and you want to spend it on a blank. AND it is a modification, which benefits from certain situations. DTT is a great upgrade for your little ships that don't throw a lot of dice. You shouldn't put it on a large one because if you are going for dice fixing, there are better ways to do it.

Spinal and EA give you the die for both shots, which makes Gunnery Teams even better.

Overall, I think you are just being to negative about what has been released so far. I'd hate to see you run against these new lists and lose because you think they are inferior upgrades and be upset about it.

As Ard already put it:

That said, I'm also completely convinced that this line of discussion isn't going to be relevant for another 4-6 months. Not announced yet, 2 months on the boat, 2 weeks to stores, another two freaking months waiting for an FAQ to clarify year-old card text...

Chill out. No one really knows how these new cards will work because we only have had one article about them. Once the second one hits and they go in depth, things may have changed and they will explain these new interactions and mechanics.

You must exhaust DTT to get it to work, and you want to spend it on a blank. AND it is a modification, which benefits from certain situations. DTT is a great upgrade for your little ships that don't throw a lot of dice. You shouldn't put it on a large one because if you are going for dice fixing, there are better ways to do it.

Spinal and EA give you the die for both shots, which makes Gunnery Teams even better.

Spinal and enhanced armament are also modification.The only real argument I see here is the gunnery team , but does it justify the 5/4 extra points? I don't think so.

I'd hate to see you run against these new lists and lose because you think they are inferior upgrades and be upset about it.

Don't get me wrong, if the upgrade works as you described I'll be the one running them.

Anyways thanks for sharing your opinion I guess we will have to wait and see how it goes.

I don't understand how there's confusion on the DTTs. It's an add effect. You add the red dice (by rolling one), then you choose and remove a dice. Easy peasy. It evens out your red dice and generally will add a relevant die and then eat a blank dice or superfluous accuracy.

Sato there's still room for some confusion because his effect wording hasn't existed before. I'm of the opinion that the dice are replaced prior to the roll but I can see how a reasonable person would disagree and thus I await clarification from FFG.

I agree with Snipafist, I think the intent is probably to replace the dice before the roll, but can understand how it could go either way. If he was after the roll, I think he might be just a skosh too good with additional reroll effects.

Arrggghhh its not even on the sodding boat yet....

It might be.

I mean, who says the statuses are ever accurate.

Hear, hear!

Hope leads to disappointment!