ok so I didn't think making a suggestion about helping new players to x wing would be controversial.

I stopped reading the replies when someone suggested I figure out what Foxtrot Oscar meant. 12 years in the British army means I know exactly what it means. Can I suggest the keyboard hero poster of that comment get back in his basement, talking to his imaginary girlfriend and playing call of duty, no doubt where he learnt the phonetic alphabet.

To the person who asked why I used I've instead of I have. Because I've is a common English language contraction, not an acronym, understood by most people with a basic grasp of the language. Might I suggest a good evening class in English.

And as for the rest, if this is Christian Petersens much admired X wing community you can keep it.

You can now all pile on and have another go. As I'm (another English contraction) done with this place, this will be a exercise in mass self gratification so feel free.

Oh come on, because we disagreed with you we are all mean?

Like I said, there is no problem with people not knowing abreviations, since the community is always happy to help them learn. You dislike that, but its the status quo that has worked for a long time now. Most people start apreciating the efficiency at some point of their involvement with the game.

Also that browser app makes things incredibly easy.

I can't agree at all. When I got into X-Wing, and then when I really got into X-Wing, I knew that it would be on me to figure out what the common abbreviations mean, just like when I discover any new game, new fandom, new forum, or new hobby. It doesn't take long at all to pick up on what thing mean, there are glossaries that people have made here and on Reddit, and people will provide an answer if you ask. It isn't like what these abbreviations mean are being kept secret from you or that there is a massive conspiracy to befuddle new players; if you pay any attention to anything, you'll figure them out.

Reading X-Wing forums isn't required to play the game at all. If people are coming here, it is because they want to learn more about X-Wing or just talk about X-Wing. Abbreviations are going to be a part of that.

You dislike that, but its the status quo that has worked for a long time now.

Here's the problem I have with the OP in this thread... He's asking for everyone else to make extra and frankly unneeded extra effort for the sake of new people, people who may not even be reading that thread. I think that's the real issue we have here, that someone would be so demanding of a community, that we should put in that much extra effort so he doesn't have to put any himself.

Then of course comes the righteous indignation, which is often the last resort of a scoundrel.

But it's not like the TLA's are unique to here or gaming in general, or hobbies for that matter. He was supposedly in the military, which is filled with TLA's for everything. All government stuff is really.

But even in the private sector it's the status quo... Anywhere you go you're going to encounter them and quite often without a helpful cheat sheet. So again expecting us to change what is a common practice in nearly every facet of daily life for the sake of some unnamed newbie is in fact simply unreasonable... Especially when there are plenty of resources out there to answer the questions they may have... In the Index of Useful links for example the one and only sticky post on the X-Wing boards.

It gets worse... When I play casual, we just write down our list. But I don't expect anyone(even myself) to conform to x-wing shorthand. It just happens.

my current list:

Trip6 ,SLvR +gonk +LOM +igD +mango +feedbag +Xi +toof-ttl

IggyB +push.it +FoCuS +beamer +blackstool +A.thrust* +procks +mango +bro-ttl

(*I used to just put 'thrust, but you know...it got vectored.)

It gets worse... When I play casual, we just write down our list. But I don't expect anyone(even myself) to conform to x-wing shorthand. It just happens.

my current list:

Trip6 ,SLvR +gonk +LOM +igD +mango +feedbag +Xi +toof-ttl

IggyB +push.it +FoCuS +beamer +blackstool +A.thrust* +procks +mango +bro-ttl

(*I used to just put 'thrust, but you know...it got vectored.)

This thread has taught me that there are a lot of not nice people on this forum.

First time meeting humanity?

Oh, I've met it. I just don't see why people enjoy being nasty to others. Put some positivity out into the world. Or as a very wise man once said, "Do to others as you would have them do to you."

Would it kill us to use proper English and avoid acronyms/slang that actually inhibit communication? I thought communicating was the POINT of a forum. As a relatively new player, who hasn't even played against some ships, much less own them all, I will admit to being stymied by the likes of "toilet seats" and "bro-bots." I've figured out what these terms mean now, but why introduce unnecessary confusion?

For example, let's say I've decided to call my favorite coffee mug "C.H.A.R.L.E.S" (Coffee Holding Apparatus. Really Lovely, Extra Special) Whenever I refer to my mug, I only call it Charles. All of my friends/family/co-workers know that I call my mug "Charles" but when we hire a new employee, I can't expect him to know who/what "Charles" is. It's a little bit silly.

On an internet forum, where we do not know who will be reading the messages/participating in the conversation, clarity should be encouraged!

Would it kill us to use proper English and avoid acronyms/slang that actually inhibit communication? I thought communicating was the POINT of a forum. As a relatively new player, who hasn't even played against some ships, much less own them all, I will admit to being stymied by the likes of "toilet seats" and "bro-bots." I've figured out what these terms mean now, but why introduce unnecessary confusion?

When technical discussions are being held between people who know the subject well, jargon is going to be created as a shorthand. It just is. It's a bloody sight easier to say "U-Boat" than it is to say "Jumpmaster 3000 with Deadeye and some sort of torpedo", or "Warthog" rather than "Rebel or Scum Y-Wing with the BTL-A4 title and either an Ion Turret or a Twin Laser Turret". Yes, that means there can be a bit of a barrier to entry and sometimes you want to be mindful of that. But to a great degree it just comes with the territory and all you can do is not be a **** if someone wants you to explain some niche abbreviation or slang name.

ok so I didn't think making a suggestion about helping new players to x wing would be controversial.

I stopped reading the replies when someone suggested I figure out what Foxtrot Oscar meant. 12 years in the British army means I know exactly what it means. Can I suggest the keyboard hero poster of that comment get back in his basement, talking to his imaginary girlfriend and playing call of duty, no doubt where he learnt the phonetic alphabet.

To the person who asked why I used I've instead of I have. Because I've is a common English language contraction, not an acronym, understood by most people with a basic grasp of the language. Might I suggest a good evening class in English.

And as for the rest, if this is Christian Petersens much admired X wing community you can keep it.

You can now all pile on and have another go. As I'm (another English contraction) done with this place, this will be a exercise in mass self gratification so feel free.

Is it too much of an effort to type veteran instincts instead of VI.

Yes. yes it is.

its not all that hard to pick up once you see people use it after a while

and I really hate having to look up the speeling of the cards

Would it kill us to use proper English and avoid acronyms/slang that actually inhibit communication?

Proper english is by and large used here. There's few "u knows" or the like. However avoiding acronyms/slang does in fact inhibit communication. Because it takes longer to type out Veterans Instincts then it does VI, and 98% of the people here will read VI in context as Veterans Instincts. There is again a list provided of what the various shortcuts all mean. Why should everyone else expend more effort for the sake of saving you 5 minutes of reading?

but when we hire a new employee, I can't expect him to know who/what "Charles" is.

No you can't, but you can provide him a cheat sheet of commonly used terms, because it is an undeniable fact, that there are a ton of terms, TLA's, and other shortcuts used where you work that a new employee is going to have to learn.

This thread has taught me that there are a lot of not nice people on this forum.

First time meeting humanity?

Oh, I've met it. I just don't see why people enjoy being nasty to others. Put some positivity out into the world. Or as a very wise man once said, "Do to others as you would have them do to you."

Would it kill us to use proper English and avoid acronyms/slang that actually inhibit communication? I thought communicating was the POINT of a forum. As a relatively new player, who hasn't even played against some ships, much less own them all, I will admit to being stymied by the likes of "toilet seats" and "bro-bots." I've figured out what these terms mean now, but why introduce unnecessary confusion?

For example, let's say I've decided to call my favorite coffee mug "C.H.A.R.L.E.S" (Coffee Holding Apparatus. Really Lovely, Extra Special) Whenever I refer to my mug, I only call it Charles. All of my friends/family/co-workers know that I call my mug "Charles" but when we hire a new employee, I can't expect him to know who/what "Charles" is. It's a little bit silly.

On an internet forum, where we do not know who will be reading the messages/participating in the conversation, clarity should be encouraged!

That's easy. When you hire a new employee you give him a little tour, and when you get the chance you hold up your mug and say

"This is Charles. Break him you die, understand? Good"

Pretty sure he'll remember

the internet and mobile device are making people more lazy. But human beings don't like to be called out on it. And with the internet people can respond much more harsh or rude then they would face to face with you.

This has to have risen to the line of logical fallacy by now... The idea that the internet is responsible for jargon is simply nonsense... I joined the US ARMY in 1988, and one of the first things I learned was I was going to have to learn the jargon or spend a lot of time very confused. This was long before things like smartphones or the internet really.

However what is truly lazy, is to expect a whole community to change how they behave for the sake of someone wanting to join it, not having to learn the jargon.

Edit: As has been pointed out, this is a hobby forum, and as such jargon is simply part of it, every hobby community is going to be the same way, and it's up to people wanting to join into that community to learn the jargon.

If someone were to ask what any given term meant and got static for it, then there would be a point to this all. But RTFM is generally not considered an acceptable answer around here.

To the person who asked why I used I've instead of I have. Because I've is a common English language contraction, not an acronym, understood by most people with a basic grasp of the language. Might I suggest a good evening class in English.

But you had to learn that contraction to understand. If someone was learning English for the first time, they would be extremely confused by I've, You're, It's, I'm etc. Do you expect the whole world to stop using contractions because someone is having trouble learning them? It's the same thing here, acronyms and slang are ingrained in our X-wing "culture" of sorts. It's as much a part of our language as contractions are to the English language.

And as for the rest, if this is Christian Petersens much admired X wing community you can keep it.

Actually it demonstrates how close our community is, nobody here was willing to stand for some self entitled person to come in and tell them to change their language because he's to lazy to learn it. If you've really left because of this, good riddance.

Man I hate being late to the party

Past few days I've seen a couple of posts.....one compiling a glossary and the other from a new member asking what some of the acronyms mean, in which a link is given to the glossary post.

How about instead of forcing someone to read through however many pages of acronyms trying to find the one they want, Just stop using them.

Not everyone does it, most people do use the full term. Reassuringly in the squad building section the full title is used a lot. But there are enough examples around that it becomes annoying.

Is it too much of an effort to type veteran instincts instead of VI. If your answer is yes and you can also rattle off every card/build acronym known to x-win kind then you maybe need to consider lifer a bit more :-)

When FFG introduce character limits on posts then by all means start using them again. But in the mean time lets be a bit more new user friendly and stop.

Last week I just finished serving 27 years in the U.S. Army. My life is acronyms. I have made my own. Couple have even stuck. No way will I allow you to destroy my last bastion of culture. I need these acronyms!!! If I can't PTL and take risk from BMST.......then....why even play?

Formally, one should write out the full name and then put the acronym in parenthesis. I have NEVER confused these forums as formal.

I believe a pinned sticky would do just fine to help any player.

Which as other people have pointed out, we have a compiled thread of acronyms which is stickied.

This thread has taught me that there are a lot of not nice people on this forum.

First time meeting humanity?

Oh, I've met it. I just don't see why people enjoy being nasty to others. Put some positivity out into the world. Or as a very wise man once said, "Do to others as you would have them do to you."

Would it kill us to use proper English and avoid acronyms/slang that actually inhibit communication? I thought communicating was the POINT of a forum. As a relatively new player, who hasn't even played against some ships, much less own them all, I will admit to being stymied by the likes of "toilet seats" and "bro-bots." I've figured out what these terms mean now, but why introduce unnecessary confusion?

For example, let's say I've decided to call my favorite coffee mug "C.H.A.R.L.E.S" (Coffee Holding Apparatus. Really Lovely, Extra Special) Whenever I refer to my mug, I only call it Charles. All of my friends/family/co-workers know that I call my mug "Charles" but when we hire a new employee, I can't expect him to know who/what "Charles" is. It's a little bit silly.

On an internet forum, where we do not know who will be reading the messages/participating in the conversation, clarity should be encouraged!

confucius was indeed a wise man and his golden rule is a classic.

Coming here and demanding we all change to suit one guy is inconsiderate so really we are obeying the ancient Chinese philosophy from 500bc.

If a new person asks what PTL means we explain it never once has any of us mocked someone for not knowing a term.

Asking people using phones and tablets to type out black market slicer tools each and every time is unreasonable that's all there is to it.

I don't go into a new environment and expect it to bend over backwards to suit me, and neither should anyone else.

Need to be stopped asap

Abbreviations are used un every walk of life. If you don't know what ab abbreviation stands for, there are easy ways for you to find out.

Emphasis on "for you to find out".

When FFG introduce character limits on posts then by all means start using them again. But in the mean time lets be a bit more new user friendly and stop.

Who?

Congrats guys, he deleted the account and left the community. While I use initialisms all the time and took effort to learn them, you guys are coming across as wayyyyy too rude to what was a pretty obvious, if misguided, request.

This thread has taught me that there are a lot of not nice people on this forum.

Truth.

Congrats guys, he deleted the account and left the community. While I use initialisms all the time and took effort to learn them, you guys are coming across as wayyyyy too rude to what was a pretty obvious, if misguided, request.

This thread has taught me that there are a lot of not nice people on this forum.

Truth.

I'm still going to sleep well tonight.

How do people use the internet these days if they can get so offended so easily. Baffles me brain

Congrats guys, he deleted the account and left the community. While I use initialisms all the time and took effort to learn them, you guys are coming across as wayyyyy too rude to what was a pretty obvious, if misguided, request.

This thread has taught me that there are a lot of not nice people on this forum.

Truth.

That's his lost

I'm still going to sleep well tonight.

How do people use the internet these days if they can get so offended so easily. Baffles me brain

Some people like to avoid aggravation/irritation in a game or hobby that brings them some enjoyment and relaxation. Some veterans of these forums forget it was much easier to pickup the slang if you were involved from Wave 1 as opposed to jumping into the game with Wave 8 or 9 like a noobie.

If you're baffled by Andy1909 being offended by the responses to his OP, I question why people were so offended by his OP. Would you have been so harsh if you were having a face to face with a new player over a game? I don't think so. The common courtesy exchanged in a face to face too often vanishes when that meeting is on the web. Remember, when you call someone an SOB on a forum, he can't see you smile.

Sleep well.

Congrats guys, he deleted the account and left the community. While I use initialisms all the time and took effort to learn them, you guys are coming across as wayyyyy too rude to what was a pretty obvious, if misguided, request.

This thread has taught me that there are a lot of not nice people on this forum.

Truth.

That's his lost

I'm still going to sleep well tonight.

How do people use the internet these days if they can get so offended so easily. Baffles me brain

Some people like to avoid aggravation/irritation in a game or hobby that brings them some enjoyment and relaxation. Some veterans of these forums forget it was much easier to pickup the slang if you were involved from Wave 1 as opposed to jumping into the game with Wave 8 or 9 like a noobie.

If you're baffled by Andy1909 being offended by the responses to his OP, I question why people were so offended by his OP. Would you have been so harsh if you were having a face to face with a new player over a game? I don't think so. The common courtesy exchanged in a face to face too often vanishes when that meeting is on the web. Remember, when you call someone an SOB on a forum, he can't see you smile.

Sleep well.

In a face to face game, I'm fairly certain my opponent wouldn't demand that I change the way I talk. They would calmly ask what I meant, and I'd tell them. There's a difference between asking what something means, and demanding that something you don't understand be changed just for you. One gets you a friendly measured response, and the other gets you labeled as an entitled whiner.

As to your earlier question about my first post, no. It isn't harsh. Harsh would include more pointed words than lazy.

Congrats guys, he deleted the account and left the community. While I use initialisms all the time and took effort to learn them, you guys are coming across as wayyyyy too rude to what was a pretty obvious, if misguided, request.

This thread has taught me that there are a lot of not nice people on this forum.

Truth.

That's his lost

I'm still going to sleep well tonight.

How do people use the internet these days if they can get so offended so easily. Baffles me brain

Some people like to avoid aggravation/irritation in a game or hobby that brings them some enjoyment and relaxation. Some veterans of these forums forget it was much easier to pickup the slang if you were involved from Wave 1 as opposed to jumping into the game with Wave 8 or 9 like a noobie.

If you're baffled by Andy1909 being offended by the responses to his OP, I question why people were so offended by his OP. Would you have been so harsh if you were having a face to face with a new player over a game? I don't think so. The common courtesy exchanged in a face to face too often vanishes when that meeting is on the web. Remember, when you call someone an SOB on a forum, he can't see you smile.

Sleep well.

As I said, it's the internet and what been said here is playschool compared to what I see on a lot of sites. This place is actually pretty tame, and as I said, if that's offensive, he must not use the internet much

Yeah, FYI, WTF, a PDF for acronyms ? OMG.

But seriously stop it. Lots of new people here every day.