I come from a D&D background; I haven't seen anything in the books regarding the concept of taking 20. (taking 20 basically assumes that you will eventually succeed at a task that you try at for long enough, failing numerous times before you get it right)

I don't think taking 20 should apply to skill checks as it tends to defeat the narrative aspect of the dice, but there are some scenarios with force powers where it would definitely make sense.

I have a Sentinel with maxed force leap... Now lets say he wants to jump up to the roof of a building; perhaps a few medium jumps or a lot of short jumps as he leaps up from balcony to balcony. There are no time constraints and no setbacks. Now if I had to roll for every jump I would just keep rolling the force die looking for white pips... That doesn't make sense to me. If you can take all the time you want and there is nothing interfering then wouldn't you assume he took his time with the task, only harnessing the light side of the force, and successfully leaped up the building. That's basically taking 20 for force leap right? Now if you introduce setbacks then you cannot take 20. Lets say I wanted to jump up the same building, but during a hurricane. Now I would probably have to roll Athletics or Coordination after every leap to see if I was able to stay on the balcony I just leaped to... And if I opted not to spend a dark pip I would have to make another check to see if I could brace myself against the storm as I waited to channel the light side of the force.

Another scenario: with my force rating of 1, I need to roll 2 pips in order to jump medium range over a precipice. I could keep rolling and rolling the force dice until getting 2 light pips, then I jump - but again; I don't think I should just keep rolling a dice waiting for 1 particular result... We would assume I just mediated and channelled the force until I got the 2 pips I need and then jumped. Again, inversely, if I was under duress I'd be rolling other skill checks as well and couldn't take 20.

With sense thoughts lets say I sat down at a bar and tried to read the bartender's thoughts - assuming he doesn't go anywhere I would just sit at the bar channelling the force until I read his thoughts... This one could get a little weird though... Force and destiny does not mention rolling discipline checks when doing certain force powers but the other books do... Would I only roll if the bartender was force sensitive? Otherwise would I take 20 and assume I could read his thoughts? Again, only if there are no skill checks or set backs.

Same again for force heal - wouldn't I assume that with enough time I could channel enough force to heal?

As far as I can tell the only time you should have to roll a force power check was if you were rolling against another force sensitive, if you had to combine the force power check with another check, or there were time constraints... Any other time you would just assume you spent time to channel enough light side force power.

The way the Force work you always activate a Force power when you opt to use it. You're not rolling to activate Force Leap per se, you're rolling to see how far you go and whether or not you generate Conflict while doing it. Given that there is always a chance of generating Conflict on every Force roll it really isn't appropriate to take 20 because there are consequences for every Force roll and the only way you'll know them is to see if you generate light pips or dark pips.

But the basic rules say that everytime you want to use a Force power it works. You're just rolling for effect.

Remember Taking 20 is just allowing you to active a use of a skill without rolling. This already occurs under the basic rules, you always activate a Force power when you want to use it. What the dice are telling you is how well that works out for you.

It does say repeatedly that you do not have to spend dark pips if you don't want to... So lets say my first leap was a light pip and I jumped up to a balcony... Next roll is a dark pip; if I opt not to spend it then I don't jump, right? Does that mean that I am stuck on that balcony because I opted not to jump? You're saying I couldn't roll another attempt because they only way to keep jumping at this point would be to spend that dark pip...

I thought that "successfully activating" force powers was more for in combat situations which basically means it is your action (or manoeuvre in my case for force leap) regardless of whether or not you actually succeed in what you are doing.

It does say repeatedly that you do not have to spend dark pips if you don't want to... So lets say my first leap was a light pip and I jumped up to a balcony... Next roll is a dark pip; if I opt not to spend it then I don't jump, right? Does that mean that I am stuck on that balcony because I opted not to jump? You're saying I couldn't roll another attempt because they only way to keep jumping at this point would be to spend that dark pip...

I thought that "successfully activating" force powers was more for in combat situations which basically means it is your action (or manoeuvre in my case for force leap) regardless of whether or not you actually succeed in what you are doing.

You're right you don't have to spend dark pips. But Taking 20 never applied when there was a negative consequence for not doing what the skill use would do. You always have to make a choice on whether or not you're going to use those pip.s You can not literally try to Force Jump for 20 minutes until you get light side pips. You are going to jump and then either the Force is going to lift you 50 ft into the air or you're going to fall flat on your ass. Either you're going to Influence the bartender with your finger wave or you're not. There is no way around the fact that each roll has a chance for not working the way you intend when you turn the power on.

The power always activates. Always. When you Force Leap you are not rolling to see if you turn on Force Jump, You already did that, you're rolling to see if you get the boost you want. If you roll dark side pips then you need to work out next what happens when you tried that balcony leap. But you are not standing there for 20 minutes preparing to jump until the lightside comes up. You either commit to the jump with those dark pips and you gain Conflict or you don't commit ot the jump and you fall and hurt yourself. But hey you didn't earn Conflict. Avoiding using the dark pips is supposed to make your characters lives harder. If you could by pass that by just trying again and again and again until you get the light pips you want then there would be no meat to the Conflict system.

Hmm interesting; I see where you're coming from... So that could get interesting if there are no destiny points available; making the force leap super risky... Basically I turn into Neo when he tries and fails to jump between those buildings right? lol

Also, an important distinction, using dark side pips is not the same as calling on the dark side. It is the use of negative emotions to fuel your use of the Force which could lead you down to the path of the dark side later. You make that Force Leap and you roll dark pips, you commit to the act and you can say fear of falling kicked in and you used that to power through the leap. Or maybe you're leaping to catch someone you care for and the frustration that would result from letting them drop powers you through.

Later you'll roll to see if that moment of fear and frustration leads you further down the path or not but in the moment you haven't called upon the darkside. Afterwards if your Morality drops because of it you can reason it as he called on the darkside in the moment. Or you can say he now has doubts about himself now that he's acted out of fear and he admonishes himself for being weaker. There's also the possiblity that if that were your only moment then your Morality went up and you were able to resolve the troubling idea that you acted out fear and now you've harden your resolve not to do it again.

Dark pips are an opportunity, not the dark side of the Force. To much reliance on them will lead that way but it's not the same as calling directly on the darkside (unless thats how you want to narrate the action).

Jump is a bad example, because it was never a skill that you could take 20 on in D&D. There are always negative consequences to failing, and falling. I agree that when you roll your Force Leap check, you're airborn. How well you roll determines how well you land, but you've already committed. Likewise, Force checks to influence or sense other beings are finite in the same way that you can't take 20 on a Deception check, or a Perception check to see if you've noticed something (as opposed to actively searching a room). If you fail your check, that person is resistant to your influence, or your senses. Standing their for an hour going "Republic Credits WILL WORK FINE!" isn't going to improve your chances.

Heal and Move are the two powers that I would say can be attempted repeatedly with no risk of failure, if not under time constraints. If you need to lift a log out of your way, there's no drawback to failing your check, and no real reason you couldn't sit there for an hour or two, channeling the Force until you shift it. Maybe your GM would want to issue a strain penalty, because it would presumably get exhausting (maybe roll Discipline or Resilience and suffer strain based on Threat, and suffer setback on your checks until you rest with a Failure).

However, I think this comes under the other aspect of dice rolls: they usually shouldn't be made if there's no possibility of failure. Your GM doesn't ask you to roll Coordination to get out of bed, or Survival to scrounge up your breakfast; if there's no tension and no risk of failure, just don't roll any dice and assume it works. Heal works like this out of combat: with enough time to rest and focus, a Jedi can be assumed to keep using Heal "offscreen" between encounters. (Remembering that each use counts as a Stimpack use)

Again you don't fail a Force check. The Force check always succeeds. What you are rolling for is the effect. Take 20 never applied when you rolled for effect. Even with Heal and Move you are rolling for effect. Does it take effect like you want or doesn't it? Do you garner Conflict or don't you? Those questions are present with each use of the Force and therefore requires a die roll to determine the end result of your effort. Yes you could, in theory, sit there and use Heal over and over and over again until you get light pips. But if you have to actively choose to turn down dark pips and you risk the person getting sicker. Or maybe after an hour of trying to use Heal with no success at light pips the character gives up in frustration. There is the possiblity that the PC doesn't roll light pips at all and he gives up with the use of Heal not delievering the effect he wanted.

The Force roll is to determine if you get to use the power the way you want to. Not to succeed or fail. You already succeed the moment you decided to use the power.

The Force roll is to determine if you get to use the power the way you want to. Not to succeed or fail. You already succeed the moment you decided to use the power.

Well, I agree with what you've said in the thread up til now, but I think this is just quibbling over semantics. Most people are going to define their Force power succeeding as having the effect that they want, or even having any effect at all. Trying to move a rock with your mind, rolling all DS pips, electing not to spend any of them, and seeing no result from the rock, doesn't exactly seem like a success. Now I know what the book says about automatically succeeding, and I agree with you in the interpretation that that means that powers can't be backed out of once they've been rolled: You can't demand Captain Solo and the Wookiee be brought to you, flub your roll, and then decide you didn't actually say anything. You attempted to use your ability to mind-trick a Hutt, and it had no effect (it failed).

However, if we're talking about repeated applications of powers with no downside in unstructured time, like Heal and Move, then it's not really the GM's call to say that the character gets frustrated and quits. Sure, that might happen...but we're talking about a scenario where the player states that their character is going to keep at it until they succeed. In that case, I see no mechanical support for denying them their request (although I did mention above you might roll Discipline or Resilience to see if their are adverse affects of their perseverance).

Frankly, I usually see this in the form of "We've finished our encounters, now we're traveling to another star system, and in the 24+ hours that we'll be en route, I'm going to use my Heal power to recover the party." In this case, I don't see any justification for making the player roll a whole bunch of Heal checks: some will generate light side pips and some won't, but the character is literally planning on spending all day nursing the group back to health, so they're just going to keep rolling until they get what they want anyway. I think that the rule that says each Heal is treated as a stimpack use could be interpreted to mean that each subsequent Heal recovers one less wound point (meaning a 3 Intellect character could only recover a maximum of 6 wounds from someone in 24 hours), but even that's usually sufficient to get the whole party back to full health.

Well, I agree with what you've said in the thread up til now, but I think this is just quibbling over semantics. Most people are going to define their Force power succeeding as having the effect that they want, or even having any effect at all. Trying to move a rock with your mind, rolling all DS pips, electing not to spend any of them, and seeing no result from the rock, doesn't exactly seem like a success.

Not semantics. It always works. If you use the Force and you try to pick up a rock it moves. Does the rock move the way you want it to? Well that depends, do you spend the DS pips? If the answer is yes then yes the rock moved the way you wanted it to move. If the answer is no the then rock moves but it doesn't move the way you want it too. The rock not moving the way you want it to doesn't change the fact that it in fact moved. You are rolling to control it the way you want it to.

However, if we're talking about repeated applications of powers with no downside in unstructured time, like Heal and Move, then it's not really the GM's call to say that the character gets frustrated and quits.

There is always a downside to using a Force power, Conflict. Even in unstructured time the downside of earning Conflict always exist (though I have always argued that Conflict is not an inherent downside). Therefore one can not argue that there is no downside to using Heal or Move in unstructured time. Because each use of the Force may generate Conflict for a character there is never a moment when there is no downside.

In that case, I see no mechanical support for denying them their request (although I did mention above you might roll Discipline or Resilience to see if their are adverse affects of their perseverance).

You are basically allowing people to dodge the point of the Conflict/Morality system basically. Which is cool but lets call it what it is then.

Frankly, I usually see this in the form of "We've finished our encounters, now we're traveling to another star system, and in the 24+ hours that we'll be en route, I'm going to use my Heal power to recover the party." In this case, I don't see any justification for making the player roll a whole bunch of Heal checks: some will generate light side pips and some won't, but the character is literally planning on spending all day nursing the group back to health, so they're just going to keep rolling until they get what they want anyway. I think that the rule that says each Heal is treated as a stimpack use could be interpreted to mean that each subsequent Heal recovers one less wound point (meaning a 3 Intellect character could only recover a maximum of 6 wounds from someone in 24 hours), but even that's usually sufficient to get the whole party back to full health.

It is possible that during that 24 hour period the character doesn't generate a single LS pip. There is always a consequence. This is similar to how Critical wounds do not auto heal. Even if you rest during that 24 hour period in a Bacta tank you still have to roll to see if you remove that Critical Wound. You could spend a week in Bacta and never actual remove the Critical Wound. Each day spent in bacta is gonna require an actual check to see if you get the result you want. The same with the Force. You are rolling to see if you do it the way you want to, sans Conflict.

Also, it should be clarified, LS pips is not the same as using the lightside of the Force. It is using the Force free of Conflict which is not the same as claiming you are using the lightside. But if you're always using the Force free of Conflict you are never going to actually move along the Morality track. You can't become a lightside paragon without engaging in some action that generated Conflict. Thus to be a lightsider it is essential for the character to come to terms with his darker impulses, represented by rolling that Force die, generating that Conflict, and then later resolving that Conflict. If you're only using LS pips you're hardly a lightsider.

One very important question you as GM need to ask yourself is "Is the success of, or the time it takes for, this action important to the story?"

• Yes! The a dice roll of some sort should be made. Failure may indicate the task could not be completed in that way, or that that method of completing the task took longer than expected.
• No... then don't roll, just hand wave the situation.

I have a Sentinel with maxed force leap... Now lets say he wants to jump up to the roof of a building; perhaps a few medium jumps or a lot of short jumps as he leaps up from balcony to balcony. There are no time constraints and no setbacks. Now if I had to roll for every jump I would just keep rolling the force die looking for white pips... That doesn't make sense to me. If you can take all the time you want and there is nothing interfering then wouldn't you assume he took his time with the task, only harnessing the light side of the force, and successfully leaped up the building. That's basically taking 20 for force leap right? Now if you introduce setbacks then you cannot take 20. Lets say I wanted to jump up the same building, but during a hurricane. Now I would probably have to roll Athletics or Coordination after every leap to see if I was able to stay on the balcony I just leaped to... And if I opted not to spend a dark pip I would have to make another check to see if I could brace myself against the storm as I waited to channel the light side of the force.

I would like to delve into this example in particular to explore the ways it could be tackled in a session. There are a couple of options here:

1. There is no consiquence for how long it takes to reach the roof, and no narrative reason that not getting to the roof would have bad consequences. In this instance i would hand wave the entire process, just declaring that with a bit of time and concentration the Sentinel reaches the roof.
2. The consequences for reaching the roof have nothing to do with the method of reaching the roof. Going up the stairs, the elevator, or Force Leaping have nothing to do with the fact that actually being seen getting on the roof is the challenge to this situation. In this instance a different skill roll is required, such as Stealth.
3. The method of reaching the roof is important, perhaps due to a time restriction. In this instance a single Force Power check should be made. Having enough Force Pips indicates the PC was able to reach the roof in the required time, whether they had to use Dark or Light to do it. Not having enough Pips, or choosing not to use Dark Side pips indicates the PC is unable to reach the roof using that method, or the get there too late. They need to find another way or deal with the consequences of being late to the party.
4. Success or Failure is crucial to the story. In this instance likely more than just the Force Leap is required, and perhaps a series of Leaps are needed. This may be a chase scene, a time dependent scene, or some such. This should be when Structured Time is in use, there is an initiative track, and a specific list of checks has been crafted before hand EG: 3 medium range (or 6 short range) vertical jumps, with an Easy (Upgraded once) Coordination or Athletics check to land on the narrow ledges each time, perhaps its raining so add a setback. Failure probably means your hanging by your finger tips. Despair may be a "whoops moment"

So as you can see there are a lot of ways this system provides to tackle this situation. I would heavily advise against repetitive unnecessary dice rolls, its boring and a waste of good game time. I would also never allow a "well i just keep trying until i succeed" attitude. You should make it clear before the dice hit the table whether this is a situation where another attempt is possible.

I should probably point out another important aspect of this system. Asking for a Perception roll to search for traps bay be for a single room, but it can equally be for an entire building. Set the effect prior to the roll, then there is no issue of asking for a re-roll.

Tjis also means that a single roll could define the actions of a person during a 20 second time period, 2 minutes, an hour, 5 hours, 3 days or even a month of game time.

If your going to grant another roll there should be a consequence for that. Time is a good one, increased difficulty, a new complication.

Not semantics. It always works. If you use the Force and you try to pick up a rock it moves. Does the rock move the way you want it to? Well that depends, do you spend the DS pips? If the answer is yes then yes the rock moved the way you wanted it to move. If the answer is no the then rock moves but it doesn't move the way you want it too. The rock not moving the way you want it to doesn't change the fact that it in fact moved. You are rolling to control it the way you want it to.

This is semantics. There is no tangible or mechanical distinction between "the rock doesn't move" and "the rock doesn't move the way I want it to", unless you're going to rule that on every move check where someone doesn't generate enough pips to activate the ability, the object gets knocked somewhere else. What happens when I fail to generate enough pips on an Influence check? I succeed at influencing their mind, but fail to influence them the way that I want to? Can I succeed at Healing someone, just not in the way that I want to? What does that mean?

Doing nothing on a Force check is just that, doing nothing. You failed to produce any result. You're still on the hook for anything you did directly before attempting, ie. jumping off a building.

There is always a downside to using a Force power, Conflict. Even in unstructured time the downside of earning Conflict always exist (though I have always argued that Conflict is not an inherent downside). Therefore one can not argue that there is no downside to using Heal or Move in unstructured time. Because each use of the Force may generate Conflict for a character there is never a moment when there is no downside.

You are basically allowing people to dodge the point of the Conflict/Morality system basically. Which is cool but lets call it what it is then.

There is 0 risk of generating Conflict if you don't want it, therefore it's not inherently a risk. That's like saying there's always a risk associated with searching a room, because you might find something sharp and choose to stab yourself with it. Taking 20 is a mechanic designed to simulate a player voluntarily repeating an action until they get their desired result. There are lots of things you can't do this with, like winning an argument or jumping across a chasm. But if you want to search a room with no traps, and are dedicated to doing it for as long as necessary to ensure you've searched it thoroughly, the fact that you could choose to screw yourself over halfway through isn't a good reason to prevent you from taking 20.

And I think your last comment there is unnecessarily argumentative. I'm not allowing my players to dodge anything. I'm working within the logical extrapolation of the system, which allows players to do nothing with a roll that generates conflict, and offers to specific time frame on retrying when not in structured time.

It is possible that during that 24 hour period the character doesn't generate a single LS pip. There is always a consequence. This is similar to how Critical wounds do not auto heal. Even if you rest during that 24 hour period in a Bacta tank you still have to roll to see if you remove that Critical Wound. You could spend a week in Bacta and never actual remove the Critical Wound. Each day spent in bacta is gonna require an actual check to see if you get the result you want. The same with the Force. You are rolling to see if you do it the way you want to, sans Conflict.

So how would you deal with these two scenarios?

1) With 48 hours of down time, I declare my intent to spend the entire time that we're awake and free rolling Heal checks for the party. All dark side pips will be disregarded. Do you accept that I can fully heal the party, no rolls needed? Do you force me to roll it out? If so, how many rolls a day do I get? Is it less than the number the group would get if, instead of resting, we went out and got into a fight, and I spent each of my actions in structured time healing?

2) Master Yoda has tasked me with lifting an X-Wing out of the swamp, a task I have enough force dice to accomplish if I roll well. I have nothing else to do and no other way to leave the planet until I succeed, and I declare that I'm going to spend all day sitting here trying to lift it, disregarding all DS pips, until I succeed.

If you make me roll, you're needlessly wasting everyone's time, as I will literally just keep going until I succeed. Structured turns are roughly 5 minutes, but even if you extend that to 10 because it's deliberately vague and narrative, I still get 60 rolls in a ten hour period. If you don't require me to roll, you are apparently "dodging the point of the Conflict/Morality system".

Also, it should be clarified, LS pips is not the same as using the lightside of the Force. It is using the Force free of Conflict which is not the same as claiming you are using the lightside. But if you're always using the Force free of Conflict you are never going to actually move along the Morality track. You can't become a lightside paragon without engaging in some action that generated Conflict. Thus to be a lightsider it is essential for the character to come to terms with his darker impulses, represented by rolling that Force die, generating that Conflict, and then later resolving that Conflict. If you're only using LS pips you're hardly a lightsider.

Simply untrue. The rulebook even has a section that explicitly states that conflict should be rolled for at the end of most sessions, except in the case that a player didn't get the chance to do anything, due to absence or incapacitation. "A player should have had a chance to earn Conflict (even if they didn't take it) if their Morality will have a chance to change."

Generating a conflict or two is not a big impediment to becoming a Paragon, but resisting conflict is the hallmark of a lightside Jedi.

There are no time constraints and no setbacks.

Then, as Richard noted, you don't roll anything, period. Taking 20 has no place in this game.

There sure are a lot of walls of text for such a simple answer, I'm kind of surprised given past discussions of this game. I don't know why D20 culture assumes you "roll for everything", but it's a poor GM practice no matter what the system. If there are no consequences for a roll, if there is no meaningful way to spend Triumph, Despair, Threats, or Advantages, then don't waste time on it, move on.

There are no time constraints and no setbacks.

Then, as Richard noted, you don't roll anything, period. Taking 20 has no place in this game.

There sure are a lot of walls of text for such a simple answer, I'm kind of surprised given past discussions of this game. I don't know why D20 culture assumes you "roll for everything", but it's a poor GM practice no matter what the system. If there are no consequences for a roll, if there is no meaningful way to spend Triumph, Despair, Threats, or Advantages, then don't waste time on it, move on.

Well said!

Yoda tells luke to just use the **** dark pips.

"Do, or do not, there is no try."

If you want to spend twenty die rolls "meditating" for the right results, that's on you.

You are basically allowing people to dodge the point of the Conflict/Morality system basically. Which is cool but lets call it what it is then.

Even if you don't use Conflict or Morality (we don't use them), there's still a penalty of a Destiny flip and strain when using the 'opposite' pips.

Yeah, there's no "taking 20" in this system, and for good reason.

Namely, if you're rolling dice, then you are saying that the outcome of the roll is important to the story. This mindset is there so that the game doesn't get bogged down with "petty rolling" and that when the dice hit the table, the results are important in some manner to the story.

If you want your PC to sit on their ass contemplating their navel until they are finally able to lift that bloody X-Wing while in a 100% stress-free situation, then just simply narrate it as such and skip the dice rolls.

I think the closest I've come with taking 20 is when i realized it was a stupid decision for them to make opening a holocron for the first time need a hard (3 purple) Lore check. In the canon, if you're force sensitive, use the correct aspect of the force depending on it being a jedi or sith holocron and you concentrate, it will open.

I just determine when the holocron opens for the first time if the player can't pass the check the first time.

This is semantics.

Nope.

There is no tangible or mechanical distinction between "the rock doesn't move" and "the rock doesn't move the way I want it to", unless you're going to rule that on every move check where someone doesn't generate enough pips to activate the ability, the object gets knocked somewhere else.

Easy. It moves. Perfect example, Luke is hanging upside down in an ice cave. He uses Move to grab his lightsabre. He fails to get enough pips to move it. So the lightsabre moves a little bit, even comes out of the snow some but ultimately it does not fly into Luke's hand.

What happens when I fail to generate enough pips on an Influence check? I succeed at influencing their mind, but fail to influence them the way that I want to?

Easy again. There's an episode of Rebels where Ezra tries Influence on a Stormtrooper and it fails. The trooper repeats the words and then ask the kid why he's giving orders. Or in TFA when Rey tries it on a Stormtrooper and he ends up tightening her restraints. So it worked, just the exact opposite of her intent. So there is plenty to work with.

Can I succeed at Healing someone, just not in the way that I want to? What does that mean?

It means that the body doesn't heal in any mechanically measurable well. IE the Force doesn't change the state of the body overall. The flesh mends but the wound and it's effects remains.

There is 0 risk of generating Conflict if you don't want it, therefore it's not inherently a risk.

No there's 0 risk of taking Conflict if you don't want it. There is always a risk of generating it with a Force roll though.

And I think your last comment there is unnecessarily argumentative.

Meh ... I'm an argumentive guy.

1) With 48 hours of down time, I declare my intent to spend the entire time that we're awake and free rolling Heal checks for the party. All dark side pips will be disregarded. Do you accept that I can fully heal the party, no rolls needed? Do you force me to roll it out? If so, how many rolls a day do I get? Is it less than the number the group would get if, instead of resting, we went out and got into a fight, and I spent each of my actions in structured time healing?

Do I accept that? No. I would never allow that as a GM. Would I roll with that from my GM for a game, he's in charge so sure yeah. How many rolls *shrugs* meh .... one per day. I don't inherently believe LS pips are lightside force use so basically you can't convince me that you keep trying until you can use the lightside.

2) Master Yoda has tasked me with lifting an X-Wing out of the swamp, a task I have enough force dice to accomplish if I roll well. I have nothing else to do and no other way to leave the planet until I succeed, and I declare that I'm going to spend all day sitting here trying to lift it, disregarding all DS pips, until I succeed.

Then you'll be there a long time if you keep rolling DS pips. Though logically if you have more than 1 Force die then you're likely not having an issue.

Notice that when Luke was given this task he gave up in frustration.

If you make me roll, you're needlessly wasting everyone's time, as I will literally just keep going until I succeed.

Given my stated view of Conflict and Morality you'd be the one wasting the group's time. In my game you would know up front that I won't let you dodge in that fashion. Everyone in my game knows that every time you use the Force you run the risk of generating Conflict. Therefore if you want to spend 20 some odd rolls then that's your business but the group knows that's on you because you agreed to play a Force user in my game.

However, while you're busy making all those rolls I will be moving the game on. So your character is preoccupied while the PC's are busy moving forward with the story. I'm not going make them sit there just because you decide you need to use LS pips only. If this means you miss out on the action then well .... you miss out on the action. You'd learn fairly swiftly not to waste the group's time with this form of nonsense.

Generating a conflict or two is not a big impediment to becoming a Paragon, but resisting conflict is the hallmark of a lightside Jedi.

I can assure you all Jedi have earned Conflict over time. But listing out when and how would take up an entire new thread.

This is such a non-cinematic concept that I have difficulties finding an equivalent in the FFG system. Remember that "taking 20" is only thinking along one axis of success, while FFG's system has two. There is hardly a storytelling purpose to people trying again until they succeed if there's only success or try again, but that may be different if there's also the advantage/threat axis to consider.

Luke giving up frustrated while trying to lift the X-Wing serves a purpose in the story, but I doubt there was more than one roll for that scene.

Tl;dr "Taking 20" is a very simulationist idea that does not fit this system well.

Building off of everything Kael said, at the bottom of page 1 (it wouldn't let me quote all of that ):

If I had players so hell bent on "avoiding Conflict", by not spending the dark pips, I might just get to the point where I say "okay, I'll roll the Force dice for you, out of view, and ask you, after that, if you really wanted to succeed. If you say yes, I'll tell you how many Strain you needed to spend, if any, and flip your Destiny for you, if necessary. If you don't trust me, after you answer, THEN I'll show you the dice." It's so weird to see so many people try to sidestep this mechanic. If it's really a problem, here's a thought; do the same thing, but without the Force. If you can, the Force was just you showing off (feeding your girlfriend a pear with the Force), while if the Force was your only bet (lifting an X-Wing out of the swamp), sometimes the universe demands payback. Play Mage: the Ascension, sometime; if Conflict is so bad, wait till you see what Paradox backlash can do to you. "Failing" aForce check has NOTHING on failing (BOTCHING) an Arete roll.

Plenty of Jedi, even "really benevolent Jedi", have used the Force when they didn't need to, possibly for some questionable things, and gotten Conflict for it; it's really not a problem. Qui-Gon was plenty flawed, one author had Yoda go "full Dark side", just to see what was there that might have tempted one of his best students, Count Dooku, to fall, before finding nothing, and going back to regular Yoda. Luke went dark two, or three times, in EU. I get some of why some people don't want it to become a problem for them, but they seem to overreact to how bad it is, and maybe just need to realize that it's supposed to help them NOT use the Force at every convenient opportunity, even if that IS what they've been dumping XP into.

"Taking 20" in this system is up to your gm, but in appropriate cases there's no reason not to allow it.

The narrative dice system is designed to come into play when failure will have noteworthy consequences. If there are no significant consequences to success or failure, just cut ahead and allow success. There's no need to roll.

Remember that the d20 system is rather crunchy, so it likes to have hard rules for everything it can just to cover all the bases, taking 20 is one of these rules. This also means d20 tends to expect rolls for everything because it has a rule for it. The narrative dice goes the other direction. It seems to expect fewer rolls, but have the rolls do more (see how shopping is one check, not 2+). And that's the rub, in this system if the gm is calling for a roll, it's because he probably sees a chance for the results to matter.

So, if the players have ample time to complete a task with manageable risk and access to resources and it's completion isn't likely to have a huge impact, skip it and move on. If the task does have some kind of risk or noteworthy story impacting results... roll.

Star Wars Saga Edition (d20) has rules for Taking 20 (page 60 of the Saga core if you want a more detailed explanation) and it boils down to: you can take a 20 on a skill roll IF there is no penalty for failure (so it wouldn't apply to climbing as it shows in an example, seems to apply to force leap as well) AND you are not in a rush (also a prerequisite for Taking 10).

The concept of Taking 20 applies pretty much the same in FFG Star Wars - if you have a character who should be able to pull something off without pressure and there's no penalty for failure then just let them do it. The d20 system just makes the "should be able to pull it off" step more quantifiable, in FFG you'll have to eye ball it but you can use things like how high is the characters relevant Characteristic?, how many Skill Ranks do they have? Which talents would help? etc.

As a GM - regardless of system - I tend to do what others have suggested: if the results of a skill check are not that interesting to the story then I generally assume the PCs can do it.

I come from a D&D background; I haven't seen anything in the books regarding the concept of taking 20. (taking 20 basically assumes that you will eventually succeed at a task that you try at for long enough, failing numerous times before you get it right)

I don't think taking 20 should apply to skill checks as it tends to defeat the narrative aspect of the dice, but there are some scenarios with force powers where it would definitely make sense.

I have a Sentinel with maxed force leap... Now lets say he wants to jump up to the roof of a building; perhaps a few medium jumps or a lot of short jumps as he leaps up from balcony to balcony. There are no time constraints and no setbacks. Now if I had to roll for every jump I would just keep rolling the force die looking for white pips... That doesn't make sense to me. If you can take all the time you want and there is nothing interfering then wouldn't you assume he took his time with the task, only harnessing the light side of the force, and successfully leaped up the building. That's basically taking 20 for force leap right? Now if you introduce setbacks then you cannot take 20. Lets say I wanted to jump up the same building, but during a hurricane. Now I would probably have to roll Athletics or Coordination after every leap to see if I was able to stay on the balcony I just leaped to... And if I opted not to spend a dark pip I would have to make another check to see if I could brace myself against the storm as I waited to channel the light side of the force.

Another scenario: with my force rating of 1, I need to roll 2 pips in order to jump medium range over a precipice. I could keep rolling and rolling the force dice until getting 2 light pips, then I jump - but again; I don't think I should just keep rolling a dice waiting for 1 particular result... We would assume I just mediated and channelled the force until I got the 2 pips I need and then jumped. Again, inversely, if I was under duress I'd be rolling other skill checks as well and couldn't take 20.

With sense thoughts lets say I sat down at a bar and tried to read the bartender's thoughts - assuming he doesn't go anywhere I would just sit at the bar channelling the force until I read his thoughts... This one could get a little weird though... Force and destiny does not mention rolling discipline checks when doing certain force powers but the other books do... Would I only roll if the bartender was force sensitive? Otherwise would I take 20 and assume I could read his thoughts? Again, only if there are no skill checks or set backs.

Same again for force heal - wouldn't I assume that with enough time I could channel enough force to heal?

As far as I can tell the only time you should have to roll a force power check was if you were rolling against another force sensitive, if you had to combine the force power check with another check, or there were time constraints... Any other time you would just assume you spent time to channel enough light side force power.

Regarding the force leap and influence on a bar keep examples - the d20 rules would not allow you to take 20 in this scenario. If in a Skill Challenge (a ruleset from Saga Edition) I think most GMs would let you expend a use of the Mind Trick force power (perhaps with a roll depending on how significant the outcome could be or if there was a potential down side) on the bar keep (again, no take 20 in this scenario).

As for the general rules in FFG for how to use Force Powers there's two kind of dice pools.

The first is a pure Force Die Pool. This is when all you are rolling is Force Dice (equal to your current Force Rating) and you'll need to generate enough force points to activate the base power (or mastery/control upgrade) and to activate any other upgrades you want to apply as well. The force leap aspect of Enhance falls into this category, you'll need to spend at least 1 FP to activate the base power (to leap) and another FP if you want to activate a Range upgrade (if you need to jump to medium range). So, in this case a character with a Force Rating of 2 could not fail to produce enough pips on the force die to activate the base power and it's range upgrade. But there is a chance that they'd need to generate force points using dark side pips meaning they'd need to spend a Destiny Point and gain Strain and Conflict to do so. But if the situation isn't that stressful I'd allow such a PC to auto-succeed without requiring a skill check.

The second dice pool is a combined pool of Force Dice put together with the dice for a Skill Check.

Using Influence to "mind trick" a target falls into this category. As the power calls out - it's an opposed Discipline v Discipline check and a force power check. So, you need to succeed on the skill check and generate enough force points to activate the base power and any upgrades (you get to decide what to activate after rolling).

Another example of this is also in the Influence power tree - you can add Force Dice to social skill checks and convert force points to add either success or advantage to the pools results.

There's also a general rule that a GM should make any force powers used against a PC an opposed skill check if it isn't already one and that PC's using force powers against Nemesis or important Rivals should also become opposed checks.