Pilot Skill is not the boogity-man that it was back in the dark times of wave 5 meta. However, the reactionary power of high pilot skill and post-maneuver re-positioning does remove some of the joy of outguessing and surprising an opponent.

The new RuneWars game looks like it has double dials. How would you feel about the same mechanic in X-wing? One dial for your maneuver and the other for your action?

Obviously, it's too late now and PtL is gonna be a mess. But would it be more fun or just more hassle if you had to actually dial in your boost with Soontir before seeing the board state?

Full disclosure: I like playing mooks.

Oooh, this is interesting. I think I would prefer this tbh.

To me, choosing your action after you move helps the game feel more like fast-paced starship dogfighting. Actions are the pilots' reactions to what's going on around them.

An Academy Pilot choosing to barrel roll when he realizes it would get him out of the firing arc of an X-Wing. Fen Rau boosts forward after moving because it would get him into a more optimal position to do serious damage. Luke Skywalker locks onto a TIE fighter that he has dead in his sights. Soontir Fel has a perfect shot at an A-Wing but is also in danger of being shot by it's wingmate so he Focuses so he can be ready to hit harder or evade the return fire. Ec.

Games where you have your actions preplanned feel more strategy-based to me. Like Armada or Rune Wars. Not that X-Wing doesn't have strategy, but X-Wing is more like checkers where as games like Armada or Rune Wars are like chess.

To me, choosing your action after you move helps the game feel more like fast-paced starship dogfighting. Actions are the pilots' reactions to what's going on around them.

An Academy Pilot choosing to barrel roll when he realizes it would get him out of the firing arc of an X-Wing. Fen Rau boosts forward after moving because it would get him into a more optimal position to do serious damage. Luke Skywalker locks onto a TIE fighter that he has dead in his sights. Soontir Fel has a perfect shot at an A-Wing but is also in danger of being shot by it's wingmate so he Focuses so he can be ready to hit harder or evade the return fire. Ec.

Games where you have your actions preplanned feel more strategy-based to me. Like Armada or Rune Wars. Not that X-Wing doesn't have strategy, but X-Wing is more like checkers where as games like Armada or Rune Wars are like chess.

I can't disagree with any of that. I guess I want a bit more chess in my X-wing.

To me, choosing your action after you move helps the game feel more like fast-paced starship dogfighting. Actions are the pilots' reactions to what's going on around them.

An Academy Pilot choosing to barrel roll when he realizes it would get him out of the firing arc of an X-Wing. Fen Rau boosts forward after moving because it would get him into a more optimal position to do serious damage. Luke Skywalker locks onto a TIE fighter that he has dead in his sights. Soontir Fel has a perfect shot at an A-Wing but is also in danger of being shot by it's wingmate so he Focuses so he can be ready to hit harder or evade the return fire. Ec.

Games where you have your actions preplanned feel more strategy-based to me. Like Armada or Rune Wars. Not that X-Wing doesn't have strategy, but X-Wing is more like checkers where as games like Armada or Rune Wars are like chess.

I can't disagree with any of that. I guess I want a bit more chess in my X-wing.

Unfortunately, I think the "chess" aspect is missing due to the 100-point, 3-4 ship format. For example, the "strategy" in M:TG is deck building; assembling 60 cards into a cohesive whole.

There are just too few options at this point in the game for strategy. . .the only goal is to vaporize all the other ships via upgrades on your ships. X-Wing could use more "squad-building" effects that allow lesser ships to synergize into an effective combat unit.

You do get a little bit more of that in Epic play, but I'm with you: X-Wing could use one more layer/a little sumptin'-sumptin'.

To me, choosing your action after you move helps the game feel more like fast-paced starship dogfighting. Actions are the pilots' reactions to what's going on around them.

An Academy Pilot choosing to barrel roll when he realizes it would get him out of the firing arc of an X-Wing. Fen Rau boosts forward after moving because it would get him into a more optimal position to do serious damage. Luke Skywalker locks onto a TIE fighter that he has dead in his sights. Soontir Fel has a perfect shot at an A-Wing but is also in danger of being shot by it's wingmate so he Focuses so he can be ready to hit harder or evade the return fire. Ec.

Games where you have your actions preplanned feel more strategy-based to me. Like Armada or Rune Wars. Not that X-Wing doesn't have strategy, but X-Wing is more like checkers where as games like Armada or Rune Wars are like chess.

I can't disagree with any of that. I guess I want a bit more chess in my X-wing.

Nothing says you can't home brew version of X-Wing, choosing actions before you move. Doesn't seem hard to do.

I think X-Wing done like this would become Robo Rally really quickly.

Adding an dial for actions would be a logistical nightmare in an established game.

First question: do you make 1 for each ship or a dial with all the actions and every ship is required to have one? The answer is neither, because even with a dial for each ship, you must then account for the ability to add actions via upgrades. If there is a universal dial it would stagnate the game by either preventing new action types from being created, or requiring a new disl every time a new action was introduced.

Second question: assuming you make the mistake of making these dials, how do you distribute them? Force everyone to buy them if they want to play competitively? Or eat the cost and distribute the new action dial for free, one for every ship ever sold?

Try declaring actions before moves in casual play. Probably entertaining, likely to produce some great twists. Officially restructuring a core game mechanic is a mistake.

Xwing is made to be more of a reaction game. That's what suits it best imo. But if you give it a try, let me know how it goes. Could be an interesting way to play sometimes.

I think my issue is that all of the highest pilot skill ships also have the best unique pilot abilities with very few exceptions. I think the ability to PS kill and these great pilot abilities are enough of a boon for the aces.

We all seemed to agree that PS9 Whisper with the original decloak rules was terrible for the game and getting rid of the extreme reactionary movement was a good thing. IMHO, the game would be more fun if we reigned in the other re-positioning as well. Keep in mind that if you correctly predict your opponent's maneuver, it won't matter at all. This is just going to affect the times where an ace was completely outguessed but manages to roll and boost out of arc anyway.

Edit- Obviously we can't change X-wing now. That ship has sailed. I'm just curious if others would see this as a positive hypothetical change as well.

i think that would add a level of complexity to the game a lot of people wouldnt adapt very well to.

I come across so many people that cant even plan their moves two turns in a row in the early turns. They would fold so fast if they had to pre-guess their action.

I think my issue is that all of the highest pilot skill ships also have the best unique pilot abilities with very few exceptions. I think the ability to PS kill and these great pilot abilities are enough of a boon for the aces.

We all seemed to agree that PS9 Whisper with the original decloak rules was terrible for the game and getting rid of the extreme reactionary movement was a good thing. IMHO, the game would be more fun if we reigned in the other re-positioning as well. Keep in mind that if you correctly predict your opponent's maneuver, it won't matter at all. This is just going to affect the times where an ace was completely outguessed but manages to roll and boost out of arc anyway.

Edit- Obviously we can't change X-wing now. That ship has sailed. I'm just curious if others would see this as a positive hypothetical change as well.

I would argue that, thematically, high pilot skill aces should be able to outmaneuver other ships even if they don't always guess their opponent's completely correctly. They're the best of the best and know how to reposition and adjust to the battlefield better than lower pilot skill pilots when their guesses are wrong.

I'm not putting down your idea. I'd just say try playing it with friends as a home-brew and see how it plays out. See what issues it might fix or what it doesn't.

Though I feel like Focus would become the only consistently used action, because it's the only one that would be consistently useful in a "pre-planned" action kind of game for X-Wing. You run the risk of being in the wrong position with boost, barrel roll, and SLAM. Target Lock lock and Evade can only be used on attack or defense respectively. But Focus wouldn't care if you weren't in the right position, and would be consistently useful.

An other question is what would happen if you chose an action that you couldn't end up doing? Right now, if you try to TL someone and they're out of range, you just do a different action. What if you chose TL for your action and the target isn't in range. Do you get to do something else? Do you have to choose a backup when you pick TL? What if you say you're going to boost but there's a rock or enemy ships in the way so you can't?

That's a thought, but I think it would require a more comprehensive overhaul of the entire rules, probably more than you realize. I would also welcome a situation where dials aren't all placed at once, but rather selected and revealed in initiative order, allowing aces some advantage of seeing where an enemy goes. Positioning would still be important, but blocking would become a less obvious tactic in what is supposed to be a 3D environment. I am fine with that trade-off, or at least looking at it.

My thought on how this game could be improved are two-fold: improve the pilot skill/initiative/activation order mechanics and classify actions by a color code like maneuvers: red, green, white. Fewer classifications in pilot skill would create more back and forth, partnered with a non-fixed initiative (i.e., it may be determined turn by turn rather than just at the start of the game). That would create less programmed and more dynamic gameplay. I see basically 4 tiers, matching the scale of attack and defense: rookie (1), veteran (2), ace (3), elite ace (4). Initiative could be solved in many ways: current point values, dice, a "leadership" type roll that reflects squad leaders having an effect on the game, I don't really care. I think the point would be that if there were fewer divergent classifications and initiative was not a given would create many more interesting tactical decisions.

The other aspect is introduction of green, white, and red actions. Basically, it would allow ships to have many more default actions, but they would be of varying difficulty based on ship and pilot. How those color tiers would work:

• All ships still only get 1 action default. However, if a ship takes a GREEN maneuver, they may also take 1 green action as a free action and then one other green/red/white action as normal.
• White actions operate essentially as all actions do now.
• Red actions operate like normal actions, but, like a red maneuver, add +1 stress.

Imagine, for example, that an X-Wing now has access to Barrel Roll, Boost, and Evade, but they are all Red actions where as Target Lock is Green and Focus is White. If it does a Red maneuver, it loses all actions. If it does a White maneuver, it gets one R/G/W action as normal. If it does a Green maneuver, it can target lock for free (green action), then do the White or Red of its choice (such as barrel roll to reposition). This would open up all ships to much more tactical choice. It would "fix" a lot of small evasive ships with no EPTs, as they can take green actions for free. It would allow the same tactical diversity as before. Things like Engine Upgrade could merely change the color of an action, but not grant (since it already has the action in some color).

Anyway, those are my thoughts. I think it would improve the game within the same general framework of the rules, but obviously would require reworking all pilots and select upgrade cards.

If you want that style of play, consider Armada? Your command dials on larger ships require you to plan actions 3 turns in advance. Great game and feels more strategic IMO.

Xwing is made to be more of a reaction game. That's what suits it best imo. But if you give it a try, let me know how it goes. Could be an interesting way to play sometimes.

I'd say it has become more and more of a reaction game over time. Early on, there was much less repositioning and your maneuver choices were very hit-or-miss. It would be cool to bring back some of that element, somehow. This is an interesting thought experiment, if nothing else

I think I would include something along the lines of "You may choose to perform an action other than the action shown on your dial. If you do, assign one stress token." Throws the aces a bone and even makes sense thematically. Imagine a pilot taken by surprise and reacting quickly to a change in plans and inducing stress on the pilot.

Alternatively, to keep some PS advantage, split up the movement and actions into separate phases.

To make this work, you would probably have highest PS move first and down to lowest. Then in the action phase, lowest performs their actions first up to highest.

What would this do? Higher PS would get blocked less, but lower PS would be able to take Target Locks, boost/barrel roll and evade with more confidence that it was the right action. Meanwhile higher PS would still see the whole field and be able to react accordingly.

I think X-Wing done like this would become Robo Rally really quickly.

You say that as if it were bad thing.

Pilot Skill is not the boogity-man that it was back in the dark times of wave 5 meta. However, the reactionary power of high pilot skill and post-maneuver re-positioning does remove some of the joy of outguessing and surprising an opponent.

obviously not outguessing and surprising the opponent enough if he's not getting blocked

and while we could use more of this kind of thing (because it's awesome), we have mechanics that favor low PS specifically because they hit higher PS before they get to do this kinda thing (or even activate)

more specifically, conners and garbage (Rigged Cargo Hold)

so I don't really see the appeal of pre-planned actions, just seems to add complexity where it isn't needed

it works amazingly well in Armada, but Armada was built from the ground up to incorporate those mechanics and emphasis that sort of planning ahead (especially given the strict 6 round limit)

Alternatively, to keep some PS advantage, split up the movement and actions into separate phases.

To make this work, you would probably have highest PS move first and down to lowest. Then in the action phase, lowest performs their actions first up to highest.

What would this do? Higher PS would get blocked less, but lower PS would be able to take Target Locks, boost/barrel roll and evade with more confidence that it was the right action. Meanwhile higher PS would still see the whole field and be able to react accordingly.

I had the same idea and at some point plan to try it as it would be easy to do. The only difference was move order staying the same as it is now and lowest ps acting first. Seems to still give a ps advantage, but nerfs it a little.

No.

At least I don't think it would be any more fun and if anything would actually make the game a lot more work to play.

Perhaps you could go the other way and basically throw out the planning phase and allow ships to set their dials as the activate unless so effect (Intelligence Agent) would require them to set a dial before another ship activates.

If anyone has played the old SPI game, SNIPER, you'd have an idea of how preprogrammed moves/actions work. Guess wrong and you're hanging in the wind. Guess right and you're golden.

You could do it like the IG88 mission. Have an action token upside down and when you start the activation phase everyone flips the tokens.

Xwing is made to be more of a reaction game. That's what suits it best imo. But if you give it a try, let me know how it goes. Could be an interesting way to play sometimes.

I'd say it has become more and more of a reaction game over time. Early on, there was much less repositioning and your maneuver choices were very hit-or-miss. It would be cool to bring back some of that element, somehow. This is an interesting thought experiment, if nothing else

Remind me when was this? I was flying interceptors, sabers to be exact with PtL with their release... In wave 2... Which also saw Han running around with EU. So are you saying wave 1? If so, that was a total of about 6 months and pretty stagnant meta.

I hate when people try to make up facts about this game. It's silly to look back with rose tinted glasses.