If you read my previous comments, I said I liked the banning idea. Fortunately, my gaming group would never need to go to such lengths to enjoy this game, but I think others perhaps might. I find it had to believe that people would just stop playing a game that theyve spend 100s of dollars on due to a single person in the local group who likes to play the same thing every week. In certain cases the player/s could be new, or possibly even too poor to buy more than a couple ships, therefor theyre forced to play the same things. Overall, I think this thread needs to die. I think people just need to shut down their computers, take a deep breath, and move on with their lives otherwise we'll have no sky left.

I apologize, and concur with everything written above.

Actually, I think the best way to nerf TorpScouts is to make Deadeye small ship only. then they would have to target lock (if they're lucky enough). However they would equip another 1 point ept (crack shot). there would be a counter in black one poe.

(I hate this quote editor.)

Man, I made "top 10" at Regionals (25 MoV out of the cut) with no-Deadeye scouts. They ran Adaptability and K4. Deadeye scouts were a bye (10-0 in testing against a guy who made 8 SC/Regional cuts) and I couldn't be PS-killed by Crack Swarms. If one tool isn't available, others will rise and work just fine. It's a weakness to think that there's only one way to skin an X-Wing.

If you read my previous comments, I said I liked the banning idea. Fortunately, my gaming group would never need to go to such lengths to enjoy this game, but I think others perhaps might. I find it had to believe that people would just stop playing a game that theyve spend 100s of dollars on due to a single person in the local group who likes to play the same thing every week. In certain cases the player/s could be new, or possibly even too poor to buy more than a couple ships, therefor theyre forced to play the same things. Overall, I think this thread needs to die. I think people just need to shut down their computers, take a deep breath, and move on with their lives otherwise we'll have no sky left.

I apologize, and concur with everything written above.

Actually, I think the best way to nerf TorpScouts is to make Deadeye small ship only. then they would have to target lock (if they're lucky enough). However they would equip another 1 point ept (crack shot). there would be a counter in black one poe.

(I hate this quote editor.)

Man, I made "top 10" at Regionals (25 MoV out of the cut) with no-Deadeye scouts. They ran Adaptability and K4. Deadeye scouts were a bye (10-0 in testing against a guy who made 8 SC/Regional cuts) and I couldn't be PS-killed by Crack Swarms. If one tool isn't available, others will rise and work just fine. It's a weakness to think that there's only one way to skin an X-Wing.

Tl restriction either requires setup ahead of time or puts you in range 1 to 3 Before higher ps ships activate, allowing them to close to range 1 far more easily

The k4 set up requires more skill to utilize and is more open to counterplay

Id honestly welcome that variation. Even with ocr4, deadeye still kinda makes things too easy

I'd just ban Deadeye outright. It only comes in the A-wing so it wouldn't be much of a loss and nothing truly relies on it, not even the Jumpmaster. The problem with Deadeye is that it's a card that dumbs down the game: it reduces tactical decisions rather than diversifies or increases them.

Ordnance was designed to be more involved to fire than a primary weapon: setting up the lock isn't always easy and there's counterplay to it: getting those ordnance shots off is more of a maneuvering skill contest between players than easier primary shots. The game is also full of tools for dealing with target locks that have been put in wave by wave: they were never used because ordnance wasn't worth it but now a lot of them could be useful again. Or they could were it not for Deadeye.

Low PS ships have a lot of trouble acquiring the locks for ordnance and there are two designs that fix this. Long Range Scanners and Deadeye. Long Range Scanners takes the target locking game and changes it. Deadeye takes the target locking game and deletes it. Both achieve the same goal, but one maintains tactical depth and the other reduces it.

Deadeye takes an ordnance weapon and all but dumbs it down into a primary: it's effectively a cannon with limited shots. I've come to see this as a waste of gameplay: imagine if they released an upgrade for the Shadowcaster that turned it into an outright PWT. Powerwise, probably not much difference if priced correctly, but all those decisions on the part of the player and the opponent with regards to the arc are gone.

If you remove Deadeye you remove the option to turn a torpedo into a cannon: if you want to use it you have to interact with the target locking mechanics and the vast array of tools to help or hinder you to that regard. For the vast majority of ships no power difference is made: high PS ships don't have much trouble locking and probably prefer Crack Shot anyway and low PS ships have either Long Range Scanners or didn't have the EPT option. As for the Contracted Scout, its weapon is just as powerful as it was before, but now the opponent has more tactical options to try to counterplay it.

I believe more would be gained in terms of build options and tactical options by removing Deadeye than would be be lost.

Man, I made "top 10" at Regionals (25 MoV out of the cut) with no-Deadeye scouts. They ran Adaptability and K4. Deadeye scouts were a bye (10-0 in testing against a guy who made 8 SC/Regional cuts) and I couldn't be PS-killed by Crack Swarms. If one tool isn't available, others will rise and work just fine. It's a weakness to think that there's only one way to skin an X-Wing.

And did you find the games were more interesting without it?

I'd just ban Deadeye outright. It only comes in the A-wing so it wouldn't be much of a loss and nothing truly relies on it, not even the Jumpmaster. The problem with Deadeye is that it's a card that dumbs down the game: it reduces tactical decisions rather than diversifies or increases them.

Ordnance was designed to be more involved to fire than a primary weapon: setting up the lock isn't always easy and there's counterplay to it: getting those ordnance shots off is more of a maneuvering skill contest between players than easier primary shots. The game is also full of tools for dealing with target locks that have been put in wave by wave: they were never used because ordnance wasn't worth it but now a lot of them could be useful again. Or they could were it not for Deadeye.

Low PS ships have a lot of trouble acquiring the locks for ordnance and there are two designs that fix this. Long Range Scanners and Deadeye. Long Range Scanners takes the target locking game and changes it. Deadeye takes the target locking game and deletes it. Both achieve the same goal, but one maintains tactical depth and the other reduces it.

Deadeye takes an ordnance weapon and all but dumbs it down into a primary: it's effectively a cannon with limited shots. I've come to see this as a waste of gameplay: imagine if they released an upgrade for the Shadowcaster that turned it into an outright PWT. Powerwise, probably not much difference if priced correctly, but all those decisions on the part of the player and the opponent with regards to the arc are gone.

If you remove Deadeye you remove the option to turn a torpedo into a cannon: if you want to use it you have to interact with the target locking mechanics and the vast array of tools to help or hinder you to that regard. For the vast majority of ships no power difference is made: high PS ships don't have much trouble locking and probably prefer Crack Shot anyway and low PS ships have either Long Range Scanners or didn't have the EPT option. As for the Contracted Scout, its weapon is just as powerful as it was before, but now the opponent has more tactical options to try to counterplay it.

I believe more would be gained in terms of build options and tactical options by removing Deadeye than would be be lost.

Man, I made "top 10" at Regionals (25 MoV out of the cut) with no-Deadeye scouts. They ran Adaptability and K4. Deadeye scouts were a bye (10-0 in testing against a guy who made 8 SC/Regional cuts) and I couldn't be PS-killed by Crack Swarms. If one tool isn't available, others will rise and work just fine. It's a weakness to think that there's only one way to skin an X-Wing.

And did you find the games were more interesting without it?

Ill be flying this list today....

I'd just ban Deadeye outright. It only comes in the A-wing so it wouldn't be much of a loss

Deadeye is also in the TAP. Deadeye is by far the stupidest card insert there is, coming in two ships that will run Proton Rockets if they run ordnance, and thus do not need Deadeye.

If you read my previous comments, I said I liked the banning idea. Fortunately, my gaming group would never need to go to such lengths to enjoy this game, but I think others perhaps might. I find it had to believe that people would just stop playing a game that theyve spend 100s of dollars on due to a single person in the local group who likes to play the same thing every week. In certain cases the player/s could be new, or possibly even too poor to buy more than a couple ships, therefor theyre forced to play the same things. Overall, I think this thread needs to die. I think people just need to shut down their computers, take a deep breath, and move on with their lives otherwise we'll have no sky left.

I apologize, and concur with everything written above.

Nothing to appologize for bro. Everyone is free to state their opinions, and there are so many replies to replies that it's getting hard to keep track of who is saying what.

Good social form applies to the internet as well. I missed that you had, in fact, agreed with me higher in the chain.

Sigh. Just when I thought it wouldn't happen again, the sky is falling ...

You must be typing this while sitting in Jacksonville, FL., you know, where the sky REALLY is falling ...

I'm not really saying the sky is falling. im pointing out the glaring power creep issues in this game, and why when people make threads that say 'fix this ship' theres some serious merit behind it. The power levels of new ships are so far beyond old ones yet no one wants to seem to acknowledge this.

Punisher and TIE/SF definitely aren't as good as older imperial ships. ARC is probably about equivalent to other Rebel ships, but in a different role. Protectorate is about equivalent to the Phantom or Interceptor, definitely worse against some ships id think. G1A is definitely not better than most other ships, about equal to similar ships. All TAP pilots except Inquisitor aren't as good as other ships/pilots (Valen is solid enough, though!). Ghost feels equivalent to other ships, not yet feeling broke or too much better than other options (depending on the meta).

Ships not mentioned might fit your description though

I still think it's funny that nobody cared about Deadeye until TorpScouts came along.

I still think it's funny that nobody cared about Deadeye until TorpScouts came along.

Nobody cared who it was till it put the mask of JM5K on. Yet, obviously, it's the problem.

totally agree, TLT's ARE killing this game.

After seeing 4 TLTs going after Dangeroo and killing that list without even losing a single ship … I tend to understand that impression. Having even a single agi 3 autothruster ship in your list change the dynamic quite nicely. So they are not killing the game.

I still think it's funny that nobody cared about Deadeye until TorpScouts came along.

Deadeye nera could be a thing, but it still doesnt get the mods the jumpy gets from the droid

I still think it's funny that nobody cared about Deadeye until TorpScouts came along.

well, obviously?

without the combination of salvaged mech and guidance chips (both came with the jm5k) you just get a pricey crapshoot (ala ye ole ordnance)

I still think it's funny that nobody cared about Deadeye until TorpScouts came along.

well, obviously?

without the combination of salvaged mech and guidance chips (both came with the jm5k) you just get a pricey crapshoot (ala ye ole ordnance)

Kinda seems like if Deadeye made it to where you don't spend the focus the combination would have never been a problem.

But this is also coming from a "plays once a month if he can" x wing player.

So what is it in Wave 9?

Kad Solus, cause talon rolls are rad when they give you focus.

Somehow I doubt a PS6 Fang with PTL antisynergy is the gamebreaker of Wave 9.

Somehow I don't think that PTL is the way to go in wave 9 on interceptors. And certainly it never was on scum. Mindlink and Manaroo is the new hot imo. Old Teroch can be devastating, Fen Rau is great. even Guri looks good with Manaroo and another ace buddy.

You can thank soontir fell and his evading 4 dice easily for the power creep. Not because the scum finally got a filler ship,

Ill be flying this list today....

IG-88C

36

PS 6[/size] 3[/size] 3[/size] 4[/size] 4[/size]

After you perform a boost action, you may perform a free evade action.

Push the Limit

3

Once per round, after you perform an action, you may perform 1 free action shown in your action bar.

Then receive 1 stress token.

Advanced Sensors

3

Immediately before you reveal your maneuver, you may perform 1 free action.

If you use this ability, you must skip your "Perform Action" step during this round.

Heavy Laser Cannon

7

2-3[/size] 4[/size] Attack: Attack 1 ship.

Immediately after rolling your attack dice, you must change all of your results to results.

Inertial Dampeners

1

When you reveal your maneuver, you may discard this card to instead perform a white (0 ) maneuver. Then receive 1 stress token.

Autothrusters

2

When defending, if you are beyond Range 2 or outside the attacker's firing arc, you may change 1 of your blank results to a result. You can equip this card only if you have the action icon.

IG-2000

0

Aggressor only.

You have the pilot ability of each other friendly ship with the IG-2000 Upgrade card (in addition to your own pilot ability).

Ship Total: 52

Manaroo

27

PS 4[/size] 2 (3)[/size] 2[/size] 5[/size] 4[/size]

At the start of the Combat phase, you may assign all focus, evade, and target lock tokens assigned to you to another friendly ship.

Push the Limit

3

Once per round, after you perform an action, you may perform 1 free action shown in your action bar.

Then receive 1 stress token.

IG-88D

1

Scum only.

You have the pilot ability of each other friendly ship with the IG-2000 Upgrade card (in addition to your own pilot ability).

Unhinged Astromech

1

You may treat all 3-speed maneuvers as green maneuvers.

Engine Upgrade

4

Your action bar gains the action icon.

Punishing One

12

JumpMaster 5000 only.

Increase your primary weapon value by 1.

Ship Total: 48

You can thank soontir fell and his evading 4 dice easily for the power creep. Not because the scum finally got a filler ship,

This. I know it's probably just my subjective impression (power creep might have very well started earlier), but for me, the moment I felt the game has really changed was the moment I first time saw an interceptor shrug off 3 hits with a defense roll of 3 blanks.

You can thank soontir fell and his evading 4 dice easily for the power creep. Not because the scum finally got a filler ship,

This. I know it's probably just my subjective impression (power creep might have very well started earlier), but for me, the moment I felt the game has really changed was the moment I first time saw an interceptor shrug off 3 hits with a defense roll of 3 blanks.

You can thank soontir fell and his evading 4 dice easily for the power creep. Not because the scum finally got a filler ship,

This. I know it's probably just my subjective impression (power creep might have very well started earlier), but for me, the moment I felt the game has really changed was the moment I first time saw an interceptor shrug off 3 hits with a defense roll of 3 blanks.

There are lots of ship/pilots I hate, I cringe anytime I see dash across from me even though I rarely lose to him, and I hate palob because a friend of mine really likes palob and torkil.

It's a two way street though. As much as uboats do suck, fel is no picnic either. I've beaten all these lists numerous times, but it can suck some fun out of the game when you do see something a lot. Fel for example.

The game has definitely changed a lot over the last few Waves. For the better, I don't knows.

Edit

With the design lately ffg really seems to be pushing towards in arc flying. With mobile arcs, and the title with the new scum fighter, I wonder if this type if design is a little late

NEWS Jumpmaster did you break this game, my wife did when she said I could not buy anymore ships this year....

I mean Jumpmasters are fine, there not really that big of a deal. They don't win worlds, and most people who play for fun don't care. For low level store tornys maybe but Aces seems to eat them.

​If you want to complain about something why not tie swarm. Its always good, has few weakness and tends to eat people alive when you know what your doing, its been a problem for now 4 years.

The UP shuttle is going to be able to push 8 damage in one turn that is going to be the new hotness that people complain about.

NEWS Jumpmaster did you break this game, my wife did when she said I could not buy anymore ships this year....

Ouch that hurts. On the other hand an incentive to really get around to actually play ships before already turning to the new hotness.

The Up shuttle is going to be able to push 8 damage in one turn that is going to be the new hotness that people complain about.

Esp if accompanied by defenders or pocket aces.

NEWS Jumpmaster did you break this game, my wife did when she said I could not buy anymore ships this year....

Ouch that hurts. On the other hand an incentive to really get around to actually play ships before already turning to the new hotness.

The Up shuttle is going to be able to push 8 damage in one turn that is going to be the new hotness that people complain about.

Esp if accompanied by defenders or pocket aces.

I was thinking about Countess Ryad and "Mauler Mithel". I believe people are going to leave Mauler alone trying to deal with the shuttle or ryad which will give him 4 atks at range 1, and if you waste a shot at him before you deal with the shuttle that's going to be longer before it goes down. Ryad is stupid good for the get behind you while you deal with the big baddy. Vader/Soontir/Quickdraw/Inques all will be good though with an AP for backup and blocking.

You can thank soontir fell and his evading 4 dice easily for the power creep. Not because the scum finally got a filler ship,

This. I know it's probably just my subjective impression (power creep might have very well started earlier), but for me, the moment I felt the game has really changed was the moment I first time saw an interceptor shrug off 3 hits with a defense roll of 3 blanks.

But that's Palpatine you're describing, an 8pt upgrade, not Interceptors.

Soontir has been a thorn in the side of many players for a long time, but he's in decline now. Even at his apex he's certainly never been close to the meteorite-like impact of Han, Jumpmasters or pre-nerf Whisper. But the subjective feeling of getting ghosted and stabbed up by a Soontir certainly leaves a dent in the psyche!

Stress mechanics, blocking, PS bidding and, now, stress-punishing, all stop him in his tracks.

So I'd say definitely a top tier pilot, and a gate-keeper (i.e. one of the questions you have to ask yourself when listbuilding is 'do I have a plan for Fel?'), and Palp-Fel has warped the game towards the damage spikes needed to punch through that defence, but back to my original point - That's Palp, not Soonts.