There is literally 0 evidence of a Disney-led anti-Legends conspiracy.

In fact, there's plenty of evidence for the exact opposite, because FFG continues to produce Legends material in all of their games, including X-wing.

What has FFG added to X-Wing from Legends recently? I'm pretty sure I haven't seen anything outside of their new canon in awhile.

wave 7 wasn't THAT long ago

then again, after the glorious K, what could possibly be left that's worth adding?

Sure, but has there been anything in wave 8, 9, or 10 (spoiled, anyway)?

There's no reason they couldn't continue to splash Legends things, even with a single upgrade card.

well there's plenty of reasons, as mentioned previously, such as pushing newer properties ala the new movies and REBELs series

I don't remember if the ARC pilots come from legends or w.e (not a big EU guy), but they might even if the ARC technically features in REBELs (as wreckage)

plus at least the defender half of imp vets, though Battlefront suggests they've been rolled into canon

and the jm5k pilots outside Dengar

The Defender was taken to Disney Canon before Battlefront

Good call, I totally forgot that Manaroo and Tel were still Legends characters... Though I would suggest that they had very few options otherwise, while wanting to bring the ship into the game.

But that's a pretty solid defense against them not being allowed to use EU (though I do not hold this view, my original question was more a point of interest).

The ARC pilots have some things in common:

1- none of them flew an ARC in any Star Wars story of any media type.

2- all of them are new characters, new canon (if that word must be used)

3- all of them were at the battle of Endor, ret-con (if that word must be used)

So here they are, with the ships they flew at Endor and source material:

Norra Wexley, Y-wing, Aftermath (novel)

Shara Bey, RZ-1 A-wing, Shattered Empire (comic)

Thane Kyrell, T-65 X-wing, Lost Stars (novel)

Braylen Stramm, B-wing, Blade Squadron (short story, full text available on Star wars dot com)

I was going to start a new thread for this question , but this thread seems close enough...what is meant by canon? Or Legend?

I was going to start a new thread for this question , but this thread seems close enough...what is meant by canon? Or Legend?

Canon means it is official, Disney says that it exists in the Star Wars universe.

Legends is the old Expanded Universe, it use to be part of Canon. When Disney bought the Star Wars brand, it declared all the old Expanded Universe is no longer canon. It is now referred to as "Legends".

So all the Films, the Clone Wars and Rebels are Canon. Any of the other material before the Disney buy out is not, unless it has been reintroduced by other means. Other material after the Disney buy out is usually canon. (With exceptions for super weird things like a Star Wars character going on Saturday Night Live or something in the vein.)

I was going to start a new thread for this question , but this thread seems close enough...what is meant by canon? Or Legend?

Also thing get very murky sometimes. Like the YT-2400 introduced in Shadows of the Empire as Dash Rendar's Outrider. When Lucas re-release the Special Edition of a New Hope, you can see the Outrider taking off over Mos Eisley. Shadows of the Empire was considered canon when it was released. And that was Dash Rendar and the Outrider seen in that shot declared by Lucas Films.

Then Disney bought Star Wars.

So, Shadows of the Empire was no longer considered Canon. The Outrider and Dash Rendar are no longer canon, they are "Legends". However, the YT-2400 was on film and it is canon. The particular YT-2400 spotted no longer has a backstory since Shadows of the Empire no longer exists officially. So it is no longer the Outrider and Dash officially, it is an unknown YT-2400 flying over. (Which Disney may very well come out and say it was Dash in the Outrider, or they can change the story completely. It is an unknown.)

I hope that makes sense.

I mean, I've heard a lot of Disney/LFL bogeyman stories (especially lately, which makes sense) but I'm not really seeing it. Okay, so, we haven't had a non-canon ship since Wave 8 (The Mist Hunter and JumpMaster are not, as far as I can tell, though their signature pilots obviously are), but what's the turnaround time on a Wave? 6 months? 9 Months? This is why material that was in TFA which fully released late last year will only be hitting the game late this year (if even). SW is very big right now, but assuming FFG is releasing 2-3 Waves a year (not counting new epic or theme packs) they're probably going to hit a wall with canonical ships/pilots and need to release more Legends stuff (or prequel ships, Rebel N-1 is a solid prediction in the post ARC world) even if they want to feature more canonical characters. VIII won't be releasing until December 2017, so assuming it has new ships to utilize, we won't be seeing it announced until about this time next year. That'll probably be Wave XII, unless FFG is somehow on an inside track to release stuff way before the movie or literally does nothing normal with the game all year. The close ties to canon currently I think are smart marketing. They can find ships with interesting properties or pilots to put in the game which directly tie to materials releasing now. I'm pretty sure the ARC was picked because it could have the rear arc and would allow the unique Crew/Astro combo. This is also not counting that ships which have long histories in Legends are being added back to the canon bit by bit. CloakShape fighters are mentioned (but not really described) in Heir to the Jedi , for instance.

And Disney has owned SW since Wave 2.

Good call, I totally forgot that Manaroo and Tel were still Legends characters... Though I would suggest that they had very few options otherwise, while wanting to bring the ship into the game.

But that's a pretty solid defense against them not being allowed to use EU (though I do not hold this view, my original question was more a point of interest).

Just to expand on the list of Legends material since wave 8 (in case anyone is wondering):

G1A

Jumpmaster

Tel

Manaroo

Attani Mindlink

Countess Ryad

Marek Stele

Deathrain

Tomax Bren

TIE/D title

x7 title

IG-88D (IG-88 has only been referred to in the singular so far in canon as far as I'm aware).

Not to mention that FFG creations such as "QuickDraw" and "Backdraft" are dubious with regards to canonicity. The Raider is considered "Legends" as far as I'm aware, so that could indicate that these pilots may be considered the same (at least until they are referenced in official canon material).

Let me know if I've missed anything, or I mislabeled something.

Another point to make is that FFG isn't the only company still producing Legends material. The Old Repulic is still getting expansions and is definitely considered Legends.

There is literally 0 evidence of a Disney-led anti-Legends conspiracy.

In fact, there's plenty of evidence for the exact opposite, because FFG continues to produce Legends material in all of their games, including X-wing.

What has FFG added to X-Wing from Legends recently? I'm pretty sure I haven't seen anything outside of their new canon in awhile.

wave 7 wasn't THAT long ago

then again, after the glorious K, what could possibly be left that's worth adding?

Sure, but has there been anything in wave 8, 9, or 10 (spoiled, anyway)?

Wave 8: Jumpmaster and Mist Hunter.

The same wave TFA and Rebels Stuff was released.

There are some really good interviews on youtube that touch on this topic with members of Story Group. Pablo Hidalgo did one a couple weeks ago. He gives a really good description of when "canon" actually matters, and emphaisizes Legends is still full of good stories.

Old Republic is definitely not Legends or canon. Story Group designated it as a separate universe because there are too many continuity problems between that series and the films and shows, which take priority in all questions of canon. Old Republic is still a licensed Star Wars product, but none of its content has any bearing on the canonical Star Wars Universe.

>Trying to avoid Legends

No they're not. They just have more important things going on.

Like canonizing the TIE Defender, and the Interdictor Cruiser, and what else, oh yes, GRAND ADMIRAL THRAWN.

Yep, that's right folks, the EU is ded, long live the recanonized EU.

That sh*tty phone game doesn't make Defenders canon, it was explicitly stated only new games and material got that. Commanders only contains canon material, but because the way the game is setup it isn't considered canon like the smuggler one. Stop crutching your hopes on ignorance, you're more feather headed than Indoctrination Theory plebs from Mass Effect. Actually, you probably are the same people who keeps feeding EA.

Regardless of canonization, E-Wings suffer from over balancing the craft like the X-wing. It loses it's superiority and multirole use to paper stat dedicated craft. FFG is too busy with the contract for new movie shiny stuff, don't expect a fix for a while.

That sh*tty phone game doesn't make Defenders canon, it was explicitly stated only new games and material got that. Commanders only contains canon material, but because the way the game is setup it isn't considered canon like the smuggler one. Stop crutching your hopes on ignorance, you're more feather headed than Indoctrination Theory plebs from Mass Effect. Actually, you probably are the same people who keeps feeding EA.

Regardless of canonization, E-Wings suffer from over balancing the craft like the X-wing. It loses it's superiority and multirole use to paper stat dedicated craft. FFG is too busy with the contract for new movie shiny stuff, don't expect a fix for a while.

Defenders are in battlefront's death star dlc, btw

When they ran out of cinematic ships they went to EU staples (the TIE defender and Z-95 are pretty much the best known ships in their respective factions the EU has) then they did Scum which let them do a bunch more EU staples, then they went progressively more obscure until hitting rock bottom with the TIE interdictor. Then they got new material to work with.

Z-95 are not EU ships since TCW. They were used alongside Y-Wings and Arcs in Clone Wars. ;-)

While I am loathe to step I to thus conversation, I feel compelled to point out that FFG are adding z-95s, e-wings, defenders and tie phantoms to Armada in the next wave.

The Jumpmaster and G-1A were part of an ongoing project AFAIK (FFG promised to ad all the ESB bounty hunters' ships to the game).

While I highly doubt there's any kind of ban on Legends (FFG is still adding Legends stuff to Armada for example), they do seem to go to great lengths (see the Quadjumper) to prioritize new canon. Based on that IMO the only way we'll see another Legends ship is if there's really nothing else left for that faction anywhere in the new films and Rebels.

The Jumpmaster and G-1A were part of an ongoing project AFAIK (FFG promised to ad all the ESB bounty hunters' ships to the game).

While I highly doubt there's any kind of ban on Legends (FFG is still adding Legends stuff to Armada for example), they do seem to go to great lengths (see the Quadjumper) to prioritize new canon. Based on that IMO the only way we'll see another Legends ship is if there's really nothing else left for that faction anywhere in the new films and Rebels.

This is pretty fair assessment. There's also the mechanical aspects to consider. In addition to other unique possibilities the ship may be offering, the Quadjumper means Scum have access to the Tech slot. While tech is still pretty new, it is starting to get some legs - and will probably get more with the double tech slot on the Upsilon being added to the game. Sabine's Tie is the pinnacle of recycling, by default it doesn't get anything different from a normal TIE than the pilots - but the title means rebels will have a small ship with crew and illicit - but not one they can swarm.

I guess it becomes a chicken and egg thing? Does FFG pick new, canonical ships because they can do something interesting with them (Like I would personally guess with the ARC-170), or do they decide to focus on newer, canonical ships which tie into the new content coming out first, then figure out how they're going to give it its own gimmick?

Legends is the old Expanded Universe, it use to be part of Canon. When Disney bought the Star Wars brand, it declared all the old Expanded Universe is no longer canon. It is now referred to as "Legends".

The EU was never considered canon by George Lucas. This was a real point of tension between Lucas and many of the EU writers- he kept overwriting things that they had published, making them retroactively impossible.

Things became a royal mess, and that's a large part of the reason the Story Group made its decision to rebrand the EU "Legends", and to have only a single canon going forward.

When they ran out of cinematic ships they went to EU staples (the TIE defender and Z-95 are pretty much the best known ships in their respective factions the EU has) then they did Scum which let them do a bunch more EU staples, then they went progressively more obscure until hitting rock bottom with the TIE interdictor. Then they got new material to work with.

Z-95 are not EU ships since TCW. They were used alongside Y-Wings and Arcs in Clone Wars. ;-)

Yes! And the Z-95 is _the_ example of a non-canon thing brought into canon by Lucas himself. That, and the name "coruscunt".

The EU was never considered canon by George Lucas

EU was considered canon by George Lucas, he just felt not bound by that canon. Basically pulling a new testament with the prequels, ignoring prior stuff from the EU. Mainly because he could not bother to read and remember all that ****. He was still considering it as part of the star wars canon, he did not consider star wars canon immutable. Him rewriting his own OT with the special edition and Han Shooting first illustrate this very well. EU was still part of the canon, needed approval and all.

Disney has a different approach, needed the space to develop their own star wars stories (the eu covered over 100 years of post endor history), etc

So they removed the EU from their canon, the eu became after the prequels a shithole anyway, so it was for the better anyway. They keep it as its own legends continuity which may or may not be part of the d-canon. They basically arranging the canon new and decide to re-tell a lot of the EU stories again in a new form. Nothing uncommon either, even the bible canon is full of such changes.

The EU was never considered canon by George Lucas. This was a real point of tension between Lucas and many of the EU writers- he kept overwriting things that they had published, making them retroactively impossible.

Things became a royal mess, and that's a large part of the reason the Story Group made its decision to rebrand the EU "Legends", and to have only a single canon going forward.

This is true. Old George never read any of those books. Though he did use Zahn's ideas for the rather not fleshed out "Imperial City". The EU was otherwise not considered when the prequels were being made. The reason is simple, there was just too much to read and keep up with. They kept making those SW encyclopedias but they too eventually became big and bloated and unreadable. This is why it was called the expanded universe and never just the Star Wars Universe. None if it was ever truly cannon.

Disney of course has the same problem, they can't get screen writers and directors to read all that crap, so they had to throw it all out if they were going to make new stories.

Now for table top games that needs such content but need not read tens of thousands of pages of material, the EU/legends work fine. Production schedules were put into place, contracts were signed and work needed to be done. Early on there was no new Star Wars material to pull from, so they used all the old existing stuff. Movies first, then video games and books.

With the movies and Rebels there is now material to pull from and they will be doing that, even if the ship appears for a single episode in Rebels and that is it. Soon they will have material from the new books and comics to use. Now that there is new material for ships, even if that material includes all of 3 seconds of screen time for a ship that did nothing other than get blown up on the ground, it will be used. I wouldn't expect any of the old EU stuff to show up again.

Now for table top games that needs such content but need not read tens of thousands of pages of material, the EU/legends work fine. Production schedules were put into place, contracts were signed and work needed to be done. Early on there was no new Star Wars material to pull from, so they used all the old existing stuff. Movies first, then video games and books.

Also worth noting that virtually none of the EU ships used in the game make any reference to EU stories or factions they belonged to. Only ship names, models, and pilot/crew names. There is not a single mention to the New Republic or the Imperial Remnant, neither to any particular battle or event from the EU.

That contrasts quite a lot with Episode 7 ships, where FFG went as far as introducing 2 new factions that are basically indistinguishable in game terms from the Rebel Alliance and the Empire, but they introduced them anyway.

I don't know if I'd say they're actively avoiding legends material, so much as focusing on canon material. Given the volume of material they can pull from recent and upcoming movies (Trilogy movies every 1.5 years and spinoffs every year), plus TV shows (Rebels plus whatever else is probably coming), I think they'll not dip too much into legends.

That said, I fully expect the movies and shows to pull partly from legends, either reimagining or just canonizing EU characters. Thrawn in Rebels is a perfect example.

Don't assume that stuff in legends is gone, never to resurface. The guys making these movies are mostly Star Wars fans themselves, and they will work in the EU stuff they like.

Let's take E-wings. It's more accurate to say that we don't know if they existed between episode 6-7, rather than to say that they didn't exist. There is actually a little scrap of evidence that suggests they may: the company that made the E-wing, FreiTek, is referenced as a manufacturer (as part of incom-FreiTek) of the T-70 X-wing in new material. Pre-EU, the manufacturer of X-wings was a group of Incom employees, who according to the EU later founded FreiTek. So there is already evidence that someone out there remembers the E-wing. I wouldn't count it out quite yet.

I don't get how people are saying this EU is dead when have Admiral Freaking Thrawn in Season 3. EU is no longer canon, (and always was on a sliding grey spectrum anyway) so it gives them the freedom to avoid craptastickness like THE VONG. But no Jaina Solo, no Chewie getting blown up, no alcoholic Han Solo (yeeeahhhh remember that?)

The people writing the background for Rebels etc. all know their source material deeply, and that includes all the Legends stuff. If you've read Rogue Squadron, then sure as nuts they have.

It does not mean they will not be making changes, though. Young Wedge Antilles for example, now has a different background which to me suits his character better. He always struck me as too clean-cut calm and methodical to be a smuggler-type.

I guess it becomes a chicken and egg thing? Does FFG pick new, canonical ships because they can do something interesting with them (Like I would personally guess with the ARC-170), or do they decide to focus on newer, canonical ships which tie into the new content coming out first, then figure out how they're going to give it its own gimmick?

I would guess its really about recognisability. Everyone knows the X-wing and TIE fighter. In terms of getting people excited about playing the game for the first time, everyone that isn't a die-hard EU fan is going to recognise the Millenium Falcon but not the Punishing One. FFG dredged through the EU for really quite obscure ships (much as I love all the bounty hunter ships) so they'd have ships to keep releasing to keep us on our plastic crack. But that dilutes out the iconic imagery that draws people to the game. The new movies introduce new ships and these are already waaay more iconic than mist hunter or whatever. Anyone who's seen Episode VII (and that's everyone) will recognise Fen Rau's black shuttle. The Ghost is also very recognisable due to the show and the characters like Ezra are more relatable than many of the really obscure pilots and crew.

I would guess its really about recognisability. Everyone knows the X-wing and TIE fighter. In terms of getting people excited about playing the game for the first time, everyone that isn't a die-hard EU fan is going to recognise the Millenium Falcon but not the Punishing One. FFG dredged through the EU for really quite obscure ships (much as I love all the bounty hunter ships) so they'd have ships to keep releasing to keep us on our plastic crack. But that dilutes out the iconic imagery that draws people to the game. The new movies introduce new ships and these are already waaay more iconic than mist hunter or whatever. Anyone who's seen Episode VII (and that's everyone) will recognise Fen Rau's black shuttle. The Ghost is also very recognisable due to the show and the characters like Ezra are more relatable than many of the really obscure pilots and crew.

While I agree with the general point you are making, I don't think all ships that appear in the movies/Rebels are really that recognizable. How recognizable is the Quadjumper (without the explanation of where it appeared in TFA). Or, in first Episode of Rebels season 3 the Phantom runs into a couple Mining Guild TIEs and a larger ship (no idea hiw it's called). How recognizable is that ship?