Just had a thought. What would the chances of this being a viable way to get old pilots back into the meta, or at least make them something we can consider, and maybe see the table a little more

Releasing updated pilot packs. (Just hear me out) Ffg has introduced some things like the color pegs, matts, dial cases etc, so an updated pilot pack could be possible. It would only have to be something maybe every two years or so. As the game progresses after a few years it's obvious things are going to change a lot. Look at uboats for example. Their price compared to other ships does make it hard to justify choosing one over the other. Maybe it's power creep, but I wonder if this may help this

Now I've never played Warhammer, but from what I gather they introduced a new codex every so many years that updates and or change the rules. Maybe I'm wrong but I thought that's how it works.

I'm not saying ffg do something like that, but what if they introduced an updated pilot pack. It would be for the existing pilots but with reasonable cost, or upgrade pilot abilities or upgrades for ships. Fels wrath for example. His pilot ability sucks. Major rhymer is too expensive. Along with other ships generic/pilots. Maybe this can avoid a whole XWing 2.0 which some think sho happen eventually. Downside I guess would be play testing. Maybe work on one faction at a time.

Just sell 3 packs. No randomness. One for each faction and in each would be any pilot/ship that ffg feels is no longer up to snuff can revitalize it

Rebels for example could have a new cost for generic Ewing's, the outer rim smuggler priced better, maybe even update options to a ship. Bwing for example gets a crew slot in its upgrade bar, no longer needing the mod to have to include a crew. Imperials could see a new point cost for pilots like rhymer, jonus, the firespray, along with new abilities for boba fett, Kath et , and scum could get an appropriate cost on their scyks, and star vipers, or maybe it could all just be in one pack

Maybe it's a foolish idea. Maybe it wouldn't work, or maybe it mess with their marketing in selling us new ships, but I don't think so. I highly doubt they'll rerelease pilots like rhymer or fel wrath, and if people are willing to spend 100 bucks on a raider for the emperor, they may spend 20-30 bucks for a bunch of new cards with the appropriate cost adjustment to reflect the game in its current state. With this I don't think you'd have to specify that the old rhymer is not tournament legal, because if the upgrade card is same pilot ability, but 2-3 pts cheaper, people just won't take the old one anyway, and if boba Fett has a new ability for imps, well then that's more choices.

Maybe by including it all in one pack they could also include the latest faq, and rule book with any rule changes. Maybe something like this could also lead to a pwt change, and make all turrets become like the shadow caster mobile arc. It's what a lot of people now say it's the way it should have been, and since it's the whole idea is to update ships cost and abilities (too expensive or abilities that are not good Mr wrath) the new point cost of the falcon could reflect it as it now has a MFA, and is no longer a pwt.

Anyway maybe it's all a dumb idea, but as the title suggests, it's just a thought

OK now, be gentle. it's really late, so maybe lack of sleep is making brain crazy lol. yes? no? Maybe??

When X-Wing second edition comes out, it'll look like that.

Would be better if the packs contained randomized cards. And foils. And super-rare loot cards that had scratch-off codes you could redeem online to get elite swag for Vassal games.

I certainly don't think it's a bad idea on principle. There are a few things I wish Fantasy Flight sold on their own, like maneuver templates or damage decks, and I don't think new cards would be unreasonable.

That said, I doubt it'll happen. I think it's more likely that FFG would release an X-Wing 2.0 big box, which basically just has a sh**-load of cardboard and cards in it. Like re-vamped turrets, alternate ship/pilot abilities, and tweaked costs, or something similar.

When X-Wing second edition comes out, it'll look like that.

This.

The OP kinda said it already, 'updated' pilots aren't gonna be a stand alone product, they would be included in some 100 buck Huge ship. They will never sell carsboard by itself, it will always have plastic attached to it.

Would be better if the packs contained randomized cards. And foils. And super-rare loot cards that had scratch-off codes you could redeem online to get elite swag for Vassal games.

I know this is in jest, but, even then, it made me cringe.

New cards, new dials, and new cardboard!

Isn't Heroes of the Resistances doing this?

Please no! The way X-wing currently is adjusted/fixed is just perfect!! It is unavoidable to make mistakes and needs these types of fixes and will continue to do so, the OPs proposal will lead to GW conditions.

The way X-wing currently is adjusted is perfect, as they tend to build new roles for ships and mechanisms. Just think of the Defender which now has two cool titles to chose from and how this has made the game so much more fun. It would have been much more boring if the Defender had "just" been cheaper.

I do want that. Just better pilot cards.

Fels Wrath appropriately costed. Major Rhymer reduced by 3 points. etc.

if you have to release a 'pilot pack' your game has entered the power creep stage, and i dont have any interest in it anymore.

its bad design, and a bad move.

I'm surprised. I figures I'd see more "that sounds dumb" or not going to happen posts. Nice to see people agree.

Really I don't think it would hurt. Old cards could still be used, but why would ya if there is the same ship/pilot but with more optimal cost.

As the game moves forward it's inevitable that old ships will creep out as new ones come in, new abilities, costs, new rules like conditions etc.

Things that were priced back in wave 1 or 2 would very likely be priced differently if they were released now.

I think it would be simple. Minus the play testing involved. That's probably the hard part, but having awing with the pt cost adjusted without needing refit, or rhymer 2-3 pts cheaper wou not hurt them at all, and some ships could definitely use better pilot abilities, like imp Fett, and fel wrath.

And no, no randomness. I don't want that at all. Just like when purchasing models, it's all the same.

Edit

I was thinking about new dials and cardboard, but then it's not just an upgraded card pack anymore, but you can still add new actions to ships. As I stated bwing could have a crew added, so no longer the need for the mod. This would not effect the cardboard base, or dial in anyway. The firespray could get a barrel roll option etc

if you have to release a 'pilot pack' your game has entered the power creep stage, and i dont have any interest in it anymore.

its bad design, and a bad move.

Cool, so you prefer a game where 90% of the released pilots are unplayable on the competitive stage

over

a game where updated content is released to try and make past released pilots more playable on the competitive stage

Also, shouldn't you quit now? Rebel Aces, Imperial Aces, Imperial Veterans, the GR75, the Raider, the Gozanti, Heroes of the Resistance, and Most Wanted have all effectively been the release of "pilot packs," except they also made you spend money on more ships...

if you have to release a 'pilot pack' your game has entered the power creep stage, and i dont have any interest in it anymore.

its bad design, and a bad move.

Cool, so you prefer a game where 90% of the released pilots are unplayable on the competitive stage

over

a game where updated content is released to try and make past released pilots more playable on the competitive stage

Also, shouldn't you quit now? Rebel Aces, Imperial Aces, Imperial Veterans, the GR75, the Raider, the Gozanti, Heroes of the Resistance, and Most Wanted have all effectively been the release of "pilot packs," except they also made you spend money on more ships...

The ships are literally pennies on the dollar. The perceived value of those miniatures are why they sell for so much, and how FFG turns a profit.

Updated Pilots et al will happen with big box 2.0. If it happens at all.

Edit: Although, with the new Poe at PS9, it does seem to be a possibility that some may be updated through aces packs.

I think Xwing 2.0 might be good as a subscription model...ie you buy the physical ships with dials, templates, tokens etc,in blisters as we do now but the cards and upgrades are electronic within an app.

Allows errata and FAQs to be updated without reprinting cards, adjust points or the upgrade bar if required, records damage and crits.

Will allow players to reuse existing models but pay an ongoing subscription to have all of the current upgrades.

If they were worried about rarity of specific upgrades (hence sales of specific models (starviper I'm looking at you)), you could register models with their barcode/serial number and limit the cards within the app to the number of registered blisters.

I'm sure there are lots of holes or issues with a subscription model I haven't thought of but it would address the endless FAQs and inability to change issues that have been missed in play testing

I initially didn't think we'd see a second edition any time soon when I started writing this post, but after looking up a few FFG games that have been revised, it seems very possible.

Game Title: #years between first and second edition's

Twilight Imperium: 3.5 (1998-2005 two separate revisions)

Game of Thrones: 13 (2002-2015)

Doom: 12 (2004-2016/17)

Descent: 7 (2005-2012)

Mansions of Madness: 5 (2011-2016)

X-Wing TMG: 2012-?

Its popularity is likely preventing an update, as FFG probably doesn't want to change a winning formula. If X-Wing sales die down, a revision seems like an obvious move to rekindle interest. That said, with the newly developed chasm between GW and FFG, I have to wonder if FFG will still have licensing rights to Star Wars if/when X-Wing begins to falter.

if you have to release a 'pilot pack' your game has entered the power creep stage, and i dont have any interest in it anymore.

its bad design, and a bad move.

Cool, so you prefer a game where 90% of the released pilots are unplayable on the competitive stage

over

a game where updated content is released to try and make past released pilots more playable on the competitive stage

Also, shouldn't you quit now? Rebel Aces, Imperial Aces, Imperial Veterans, the GR75, the Raider, the Gozanti, Heroes of the Resistance, and Most Wanted have all effectively been the release of "pilot packs," except they also made you spend money on more ships...

id prefer a game without power creep and better testing of releases TBH. in a perfect world any well designed (by that i mean not just throwing in random cards that dont synergize) 100 pt team should be viable. it seems however only the new stuff ever has that. this is a problem.

if you have to release a 'pilot pack' your game has entered the power creep stage, and i dont have any interest in it anymore.

its bad design, and a bad move.

Cool, so you prefer a game where 90% of the released pilots are unplayable on the competitive stage

over

a game where updated content is released to try and make past released pilots more playable on the competitive stage

Also, shouldn't you quit now? Rebel Aces, Imperial Aces, Imperial Veterans, the GR75, the Raider, the Gozanti, Heroes of the Resistance, and Most Wanted have all effectively been the release of "pilot packs," except they also made you spend money on more ships...

id prefer a game without power creep and better testing of releases TBH. in a perfect world any well designed (by that i mean not just throwing in random cards that dont synergize) 100 pt team should be viable. it seems however only the new stuff ever has that. this is a problem.

This seems a bit misguided. What if the pilot packs also released revisions to overpowered cards? Then, instead of power creep, there'd be a leveling of the playing field?

<... snip ... >

Also, shouldn't you quit now? Rebel Aces, Imperial Aces, Imperial Veterans, the GR75, the Raider, the Gozanti, Heroes of the Resistance, and Most Wanted have all effectively been the release of "pilot packs," except they also made you spend money on more ships...

Can we please stop staying that FFG MADE you do anything? It's entirely voluntary. If you don't like it, stop buying it. Really. No one is being forced against their will to buy anything that they release.

if you have to release a 'pilot pack' your game has entered the power creep stage, and i dont have any interest in it anymore.

its bad design, and a bad move.

Cool, so you prefer a game where 90% of the released pilots are unplayable on the competitive stage

over

a game where updated content is released to try and make past released pilots more playable on the competitive stage

Also, shouldn't you quit now? Rebel Aces, Imperial Aces, Imperial Veterans, the GR75, the Raider, the Gozanti, Heroes of the Resistance, and Most Wanted have all effectively been the release of "pilot packs," except they also made you spend money on more ships...

id prefer a game without power creep and better testing of releases TBH. in a perfect world any well designed (by that i mean not just throwing in random cards that dont synergize) 100 pt team should be viable. it seems however only the new stuff ever has that. this is a problem.

This seems a bit misguided. What if the pilot packs also released revisions to overpowered cards? Then, instead of power creep, there'd be a leveling of the playing field?

Its a fair point, and to be honest i feel FFG has been handling this side of things pretty effectively with the use of the FAQ.

My point is that things like Fat Han, chewbo, decimator/fel should be as viable a build today as it was months ago. But it doesn't seem to be. I must say though I'm having a tough time figuring out if this is because of actual balance changes from the new cards, or if people just prefer to play with the new stuff instead of the old.

if you have to release a 'pilot pack' your game has entered the power creep stage, and i dont have any interest in it anymore.

its bad design, and a bad move.

Cool, so you prefer a game where 90% of the released pilots are unplayable on the competitive stage

over

a game where updated content is released to try and make past released pilots more playable on the competitive stage

Also, shouldn't you quit now? Rebel Aces, Imperial Aces, Imperial Veterans, the GR75, the Raider, the Gozanti, Heroes of the Resistance, and Most Wanted have all effectively been the release of "pilot packs," except they also made you spend money on more ships...

id prefer a game without power creep and better testing of releases TBH. in a perfect world any well designed (by that i mean not just throwing in random cards that dont synergize) 100 pt team should be viable. it seems however only the new stuff ever has that. this is a problem.

This seems a bit misguided. What if the pilot packs also released revisions to overpowered cards? Then, instead of power creep, there'd be a leveling of the playing field?

I like the idea of havin scouts with no elite slot, but then again they have to make the old ones illegal.

I think just updating old pilots and ship would work.

Like Vader ability is nothing all that special now that more and more pilots and ships are able to do 2-3 actions a round.

Vader should have something like when attacking or defending if you have a focus token you may change a blank to a crit or evade. Kind of like Poe ability but better. Something like that. This would mean you still have the old Vader to use as well, as it's still legal, but it just may not get used much, but at least you can still fly vader and have some more options

It happened with Poe.

I can easily see some revamped pilot cards being released, either re-priced to match the economy of newer releases (seriously, some of the older pilots and upgrades cost way too many points compared to newer stuff,) or re-specced for their point cost (like, say, improving some pilots' PS by a point or two like Poe.)

No offense, but I don't really care if some guy named "Fel's Wrath" and some guy named "Major Rhymer" aren't as good as some guy named "Contracted Scout". None of them are really canonical charcters who show up in a movie anyway.

What bugs me in this game is that we now have FOUR versions of Sabine Wren and NO useable versions of Luke or Leia! And Han, Chewie, and Lando are rare at best. Vader and the Emperor, R2-D2 and C-3PO are ok. But for the most part, the game seems to have a bias against all the old movies' best characters!

I want a new Luke pilot card or two! I want ONE Leia card that isn't only mildly useful in epic games. It's probably too much to ask that people remember that she actually flew the Falcon now and then in Episode V, but it really bugs me that the game totally ignores her even as a crew member.

And there's still no Jabba.

I know I'm ranting... It's just that this game is so well balanced that I always see all these weird pilots and none of the real main characters... I'm actually pretty happy with the balance of the game so far!

No offense, but I don't really care if some guy named "Fel's Wrath" and some guy named "Major Rhymer" aren't as good as some guy named "Contracted Scout". None of them are really canonical charcters who show up in a movie anyway.

What bugs me in this game is that we now have FOUR versions of Sabine Wren and NO useable versions of Luke or Leia! And Han, Chewie, and Lando are rare at best. Vader and the Emperor, R2-D2 and C-3PO are ok. But for the most part, the game seems to have a bias against all the old movies' best characters!

I want a new Luke pilot card or two! I want ONE Leia card that isn't only mildly useful in epic games. It's probably too much to ask that people remember that she actually flew the Falcon now and then in Episode V, but it really bugs me that the game totally ignores her even as a crew member.

And there's still no Jabba.

I know I'm ranting... It's just that this game is so well balanced that I always see all these weird pilots and none of the real main characters... I'm actually pretty happy with the balance of the game so far!

And no, no offense taken, but it doesn't really matter if you care or not. Its just the fact that there are pilots with abilities that are totally worthless, and older pilots/ships are over coated to the point that it's hard to choose them over other options.

Rhymer has a great ability and in this new age meta wou be perfect now that ordnance is finally getting used more, but he's still way to expensive when other options can do it cheap.

I'd love to see same pilots but just adjust their price.

The way I kind of see it, a video game can update a game with a simple patch. You log in, download it and a gun that became op. Gets a nerf, while something else that was useless gets a fix. You don't have that luxury in a tabletop or boardgame, so I figures a card pack with newest rule set, latest faq, and updates pilots with an adjustment to cost could be that patch

I am disappointed I'm the treatment with some of the main characters. Leia crew card sucks. Im sure will get her in a ship now that they are doing more comics, but seriously her crew card sucks, and I'd love to see luke with a new ability or new ship, but I doubt that'll happen.

Ya, it really sucks ffg is so deeply in love with Sabine. I mentioned that to buddy of mine other day, and he said she's super popular on the show, so probably why ffg is going Sabine nuts. Maybe Disney is pushing it, idk, but ya, don't need 15 Sabines that's for sure