So me and one of the guys I play with where talking and we came on the subject of the High-Capacity Ion Turbines, and we stared taking about uses for them and we came across an ISD-I outfitted like this

Imperial I-Class Star Destroyer (110 points)
- Ordnance Experts ( 4 points)
- Heavy Turbolaser Turrets ( 6 points)
- High-Capacity Ion Turbines ( 8 points)
= 128 total ship cost

The reason its an ISD I we thought that most other ships would want other things like leading shots for re-rolls, but an ISD-I is fine with OE for re-rolls, and it has a slot for turbolasers to help heavy damage get thought we believe that this is the most possible dice you could chuck at a single ship when double arched you chuck 13 dice 8 from the front 5 from the side. my question as the title implys is has anyone tried it out I think it sounds better on paper, as I feel that double arching with an ISD would be hard because of it massive front arch.

Well first of all the objection of "it's hard to double arc" really kind of invites "lol git gud bro" responses, and I don't mean to dismiss it out of hand, but... yeah, I guess I do. Any ship can double arc, just practice and get used to where that line is. Biggs had a good article a while back about the atrophying art of the double-arc among some players due to the ease of using Gunnery Teams. It's just a matter of practice to be able to eyeball it pretty accurately.

As for the build itself, I like it pretty well. The first objection I have--and it applies to all of the "increase side batteries by X"--is that you're paying for improvements in two arcs when in practice you're only likely to be using one or the other. That said, I think this might be a good place to go for it.

Also, every other defense mitigation turbolaser is better than HTT. Trade them for XI7, QTC, H9... hell even XX9 would probably serve you well here.

I've run it with Xi-7 and Vader rather than OE. Even if you aren't double arcing, the extra side arc die is very useful.....

(Puts up the pt106 signal, awaits his arrival)

I think h9 in that setup might even be better to guarantee accuracy on both arcs... and yes double arcing should be relatively easy if you plan your list out... trying for first player and having activation advantage are big parts... ultimately though, you may find that if you do those two things, demo turns out to be much better in that role... :/

I like pairing it with H9, because then any small ship in your side arc is guaranteed to have a bad time

Well.. I think that ISD1 doesn't need double arc vs small ships to be lethal (and it is relatively easy to double arc a large ship).

Back to the real main topic - HCT (Ion Turbines) shines on ISD1 as it bumps side arc significantly and this is where a lot of opponents ships end up (if they're succesful in dodging front arc). In one of my games an ISD1 with OE, HCT, XI7 killed 3 CR90 and a NebB in 2 rounds of shooting. Which brings me to a second point - turbolaser. I would highly recommend XI7 for this build, as this will maximize killing potential vs small ships in a side arc (most of them dont have brace, so HTTs are pretty useless there and mc30s cant be harmed by a single accuracy). The only benefit H9 has is that it allows one to create a dedicated transport zapper.

(Shuts that signal down, goes back to sleep)

I think getting the double arc is not so much reliant on the player trying to get it as much as your opponent. If he moves the target ship early you can get that ISD positioned to get the double arc if you get the first move. But good players will not move prime target ships first unless they are on the attack which means it's probably going to leave your ISD in bad shape at times.

A lot of things figure into the double arc but unless you're playing a player that makes mistakes often don't bank on getting that double arc as your strategy. It can be done obviously but too many factors play in to a game to count on it.

I usually go spinal armament and Gunnery Teams because that's 18 dice that doesn't require double arcing.

I think getting the double arc is not so much reliant on the player trying to get it as much as your opponent. If he moves the target ship early you can get that ISD positioned to get the double arc if you get the first move. But good players will not move prime target ships first unless they are on the attack which means it's probably going to leave your ISD in bad shape at times.

A lot of things figure into the double arc but unless you're playing a player that makes mistakes often don't bank on getting that double arc as your strategy. It can be done obviously but too many factors play in to a game to count on it.

I disagree. In fact, you are much more likely to be able to engineer a meaningful double-arc than a meaningful Gunnery Teams shot with anything but red dice. All of your objections above also apply to setting up the GT shots, and you get much less payoff for a GT shot than for a double arc, generally speaking. Two shots on the same ship in the same turn >>> one shot each on two different ships, generally speaking.

As I've posited elsewhere, this game is about defeating defense tokens more than it is about dealing damage outright; the double arc applies pressure to defenses in a way that Gunnery Teams generally cannot match.

I think getting the double arc is not so much reliant on the player trying to get it as much as your opponent. If he moves the target ship early you can get that ISD positioned to get the double arc if you get the first move. But good players will not move prime target ships first unless they are on the attack which means it's probably going to leave your ISD in bad shape at times.

A lot of things figure into the double arc but unless you're playing a player that makes mistakes often don't bank on getting that double arc as your strategy. It can be done obviously but too many factors play in to a game to count on it.

I disagree. In fact, you are much more likely to be able to engineer a meaningful double-arc than a meaningful Gunnery Teams shot with anything but red dice. All of your objections above also apply to setting up the GT shots, and you get much less payoff for a GT shot than for a double arc, generally speaking. Two shots on the same ship in the same turn >>> one shot each on two different ships, generally speaking.

As I've posited elsewhere, this game is about defeating defense tokens more than it is about dealing damage outright; the double arc applies pressure to defenses in a way that Gunnery Teams generally cannot match.

I agree partly with you Ard. I used to never take Gunnery Teams because I thought it was boring, didn't advance your skill of flying and getting double arcs, and I'd rather take 2 shots at 1 ship than 1 shot at 2 ships.

In general, I'd never take Gunnery Teams but a Liberty with Spinal Arm and another turbolaser (I take QTC) is throwing a lot of damage at long/medium range. And that means I don't have to expose my weak sides. I'd rather take the damage to my front and redirect to my sides than the other way around. I fly Libertys as my front line ship with small ships and squads to take advantage of a weakened ship and to block the areas my opponent wants to drop a ship to get a shot off in my sides. With the exception of Ackbar fleets, I think the Liberty is one of the few good choices to put a Gunnery Teams on.

I think getting the double arc is not so much reliant on the player trying to get it as much as your opponent. If he moves the target ship early you can get that ISD positioned to get the double arc if you get the first move. But good players will not move prime target ships first unless they are on the attack which means it's probably going to leave your ISD in bad shape at times.

A lot of things figure into the double arc but unless you're playing a player that makes mistakes often don't bank on getting that double arc as your strategy. It can be done obviously but too many factors play in to a game to count on it.

I disagree. In fact, you are much more likely to be able to engineer a meaningful double-arc than a meaningful Gunnery Teams shot with anything but red dice. All of your objections above also apply to setting up the GT shots, and you get much less payoff for a GT shot than for a double arc, generally speaking. Two shots on the same ship in the same turn >>> one shot each on two different ships, generally speaking.

As I've posited elsewhere, this game is about defeating defense tokens more than it is about dealing damage outright; the double arc applies pressure to defenses in a way that Gunnery Teams generally cannot match.

I agree partly with you Ard. I used to never take Gunnery Teams because I thought it was boring, didn't advance your skill of flying and getting double arcs, and I'd rather take 2 shots at 1 ship than 1 shot at 2 ships.

In general, I'd never take Gunnery Teams but a Liberty with Spinal Arm and another turbolaser (I take QTC) is throwing a lot of damage at long/medium range. And that means I don't have to expose my weak sides. I'd rather take the damage to my front and redirect to my sides than the other way around. I fly Libertys as my front line ship with small ships and squads to take advantage of a weakened ship and to block the areas my opponent wants to drop a ship to get a shot off in my sides. With the exception of Ackbar fleets, I think the Liberty is one of the few good choices to put a Gunnery Teams on.

Good points, all. I didn't really get into it , but I do think that ships whose primary firepower is reds (read: Ackbar or some Liberty/ISD2 builds) can generally implement Gunnery Teams with some efficiency.

In fact, you are much more likely to be able to engineer a meaningful double-arc than a meaningful Gunnery Teams shot with anything but red dice.

You be surprised. In the current flotilla age a gunnery shot from the front is easier than before. However one of the main benefits of the Gunnery Team is the ability to take AS front shot.

Sometimes I opt for a Gunnery team just for this purpose

I might try this. I've been itching to dig up Imperials for a few games and unintuitive conbinations appeal to me.

Also, we tried HCTs on a CR90 swarm. Repeated double arcs with 3 blue dice each is a really potent way to burn out defense tokens and ECMs before your big ships activate.

Also, we tried HCTs on a CR90 swarm. Repeated double arcs with 3 blue dice each is a really potent way to burn out defense tokens and ECMs before your big ships activate.

Not to drag this too off-topic, but why not just use the tried and tested SW7s on a CR90B swarm? The Accuracy icons are generally wasted on such small attacks, but with Concentrate Fire and SW7s you get two packets of 3 guaranteed damage each per ship that's double-arcing and it mulches larger ships quickly. Less points, too.

Also, we tried HCTs on a CR90 swarm. Repeated double arcs with 3 blue dice each is a really potent way to burn out defense tokens and ECMs before your big ships activate.

Not to drag this too off-topic, but why not just use the tried and tested SW7s on a CR90B swarm? The Accuracy icons are generally wasted on such small attacks, but with Concentrate Fire and SW7s you get two packets of 3 guaranteed damage each per ship that's double-arcing and it mulches larger ships quickly. Less points, too.

I agree, even best-case you're not getting much for the points that you wouldn't already get guaranteed from SW7's, for cheaper.

Also, every other defense mitigation turbolaser is better than HTT. Trade them for XI7, QTC, H9... hell even XX9 would probably serve you well here.

I remember someone doing some number crunching a while back about this and I thought the conclusion was that there was a tipping point t that made HTT worthwhile on ships throwing a lot of dice, maybe it was 6+ but I can't remember the details.

Why the hate for HTT? Is it to do with small ships and brace tokens, as you mention later? On paper they seem to have their niche but I don't get enough games of Armada in to be a to run even a tenth of the builds I cook up so I've never managed to get them to the table, although this may change with the Liberty as I've now got a decent Rebel dice thrower (that doesn't need ET to get it where it needs to be).

Personally, XI7s reign supreme for me because against the majority of ships, thats two defence tokens I just don't care about.

I need one accuracy for the brace, and then who cares.

If FFG continue to release ships with less than two redirects, XI7s may be replaced.

So would the double arch ISD be the official ship of McDonald's?

So would the double arch ISD be the official ship of McDonald's?

Probably the Romans...

Also, every other defense mitigation turbolaser is better than HTT. Trade them for XI7, QTC, H9... hell even XX9 would probably serve you well here.

I remember someone doing some number crunching a while back about this and I thought the conclusion was that there was a tipping point t that made HTT worthwhile on ships throwing a lot of dice, maybe it was 6+ but I can't remember the details.

Why the hate for HTT? Is it to do with small ships and brace tokens, as you mention later? On paper they seem to have their niche but I don't get enough games of Armada in to be a to run even a tenth of the builds I cook up so I've never managed to get them to the table, although this may change with the Liberty as I've now got a decent Rebel dice thrower (that doesn't need ET to get it where it needs to be).

Basically, even with a bunch of dice and a target that has a brace, if you have no accuracies (or they have ecm or w/e) and just raw damage, HTT will push through 1 more damage on the target zone than xi7, but with an accuracy for the brace on the roll, htt does nothing and xi7 will push at least 1 more damage, and probably more.

Also, every other defense mitigation turbolaser is better than HTT. Trade them for XI7, QTC, H9... hell even XX9 would probably serve you well here.

I remember someone doing some number crunching a while back about this and I thought the conclusion was that there was a tipping point t that made HTT worthwhile on ships throwing a lot of dice, maybe it was 6+ but I can't remember the details.

Why the hate for HTT? Is it to do with small ships and brace tokens, as you mention later? On paper they seem to have their niche but I don't get enough games of Armada in to be a to run even a tenth of the builds I cook up so I've never managed to get them to the table, although this may change with the Liberty as I've now got a decent Rebel dice thrower (that doesn't need ET to get it where it needs to be).

Basically, even with a bunch of dice and a target that has a brace, if you have no accuracies (or they have ecm or w/e) and just raw damage, HTT will push through 1 more damage on the target zone than xi7, but with an accuracy for the brace on the roll, htt does nothing and xi7 will push at least 1 more damage, and probably more.

Correct. Basically why HTTs are better on ships with few to no blue dice and XI7s are better elsewhere.

Also, every other defense mitigation turbolaser is better than HTT. Trade them for XI7, QTC, H9... hell even XX9 would probably serve you well here.

I remember someone doing some number crunching a while back about this and I thought the conclusion was that there was a tipping point t that made HTT worthwhile on ships throwing a lot of dice, maybe it was 6+ but I can't remember the details.

Why the hate for HTT? Is it to do with small ships and brace tokens, as you mention later? On paper they seem to have their niche but I don't get enough games of Armada in to be a to run even a tenth of the builds I cook up so I've never managed to get them to the table, although this may change with the Liberty as I've now got a decent Rebel dice thrower (that doesn't need ET to get it where it needs to be).

Basically, even with a bunch of dice and a target that has a brace, if you have no accuracies (or they have ecm or w/e) and just raw damage, HTT will push through 1 more damage on the target zone than xi7, but with an accuracy for the brace on the roll, htt does nothing and xi7 will push at least 1 more damage, and probably more.

Correct. Basically why HTTs are better on ships with few to no blue dice and XI7s are better elsewhere.

Or ships with blue dice and sw7s, although that combo can be costly.

Or ships with blue dice and sw7s, although that combo can be costly.

True, although I rarely find points invested into it pay off in as direct and useful a way as the good ol' XI7s+Leading Shots on a blue dice large ship.

Or ships with blue dice and sw7s, although that combo can be costly.

True, although I rarely find points invested into it pay off in as direct and useful a way as the good ol' XI7s+Leading Shots on a blue dice large ship.

My dear Snipa, you really need to try out sensorteams