I'm waiting for a faq that fix the old stuff for skirmish, vader, han... since the launch of the game, the only fixes where the saboteurs, officers and guards, and there aren't any cost correction, only surge habilities or rules

Do you think that vader, for example, can be fixed without a cost reduction to 14 or 15 points? or there will be a cost correction in a future?

I think the main fix is his speed. If he had a movement of 5 and cost 16 I could see it.

I think we'll see some fixes after worlds, probably in the announcement of the next wave that will come with Endor (new figures for Chewie and Han). I don't know if they will go back and fix all of the earlier figures, but Vader is a safe bet. Methinks he's a fairly popular figure in Star Wars lore. :-) But it will probably be a while before they get back to fixing those early figures. Until then, plenty to be excited about.

-ryanjamal

Yeah I agree. I expect we'll see new versions of figures that work better, but as far as those wave 1 guys go I think they're going to be staying the way they are.

I discuss stuff like this in great length with my peeps and we feel that anything with a cost close to 10 or higher for an unique is hard to take in this game. Most skirmish games last only 3 rounds if you're lucky. Non-uniques groups and cheap uniques seem the way to go sadly.

I really love to play with vader... I wish that they reduce his cost or (even better) do a new miniature with new card!

I actually had a lot of fun playing this squad:

Han

Chewie

Gideon

C3PO

MHD

R2D2

It has a lot of synergy. Han can be very tanky with a block from Chewie, block from C3PO's evade, and his own defense die. MHD can heal and you can also include 2 Bodyguard command cards that can take the heat off any characters about to die. Han and Chewie are definitely overpriced but with some synergy they are playable.

I actually had a lot of fun playing this squad:

Han

Chewie

Gideon

C3PO

MHD

R2D2

It has a lot of synergy. Han can be very tanky with a block from Chewie, block from C3PO's evade, and his own defense die. MHD can heal and you can also include 2 Bodyguard command cards that can take the heat off any characters about to die. Han and Chewie are definitely overpriced but with some synergy they are playable.

I've got a few video's up of that list, I prefer a version with Jynn now but they do the same thing really. They're playable for sure, just need to play them in a specific list, with a specific strategy, which is a shame

I think the main fix is his speed. If he had a movement of 5 and cost 16 I could see it.

There's so many problems with Vader. We tested him the other day in a series of games, and he just doesn't have it where it counts.

Pros; massive damage output, brutality and force choke are both strong abilities, especially with his red/red/yellow attack.

Fairly good defence, very good with Zillo.

Cons; not even close to worth 18 points. Add unshakable and die to a Jabba player, and you just gave the opponent a 20 pts head start that you probably won't be able to make up for. But can they kill him? Yes. Bossk and Greedo shreds poor Vader very fast, you even have spare points for Jabba, meaning Bossk gets double shots each turn, for the same investment.

Very slow. While that is thematic (Vader is slow), its also horrible on your 19 pts melee dude.

No healing abilities. It's tough being a dark lord of the Sith, when noone is there to band aid the massive punishment you're going to take on the approach.

Not enough health. 16 health is easily taken down, even with Vaders formidable defence dice. Sure, troopers wont do it, but anything with focus or 3 dice, just shreds him.

I seriously belive, that even if Vader was 11 pts, he probably wouldn't see a lot of play. That said, he probably should cost 11.

Sounds interesting... But chewey costs the same that two elite saboteurs. He really needs to cost 10. FFG also can fix this early heroes with a free skirmish upgrade for they...

"cost 0. Darth vader only. Gain >move up to two spaces and perform an attack. Exaust this card while defending to transform one of your block results into an evade."

Something like that can fix that poor guys...

I don't think FFG has any interest in changing anything at this point. We already bought the stuff, there isn't really any money in it for them to errata their poorly designed models, they'd rather spit out new stuff for us to buy. Thats capitalism for ya.

The x-wing players are still waiting for that fix, and it looks like they'll have to wait until hell freezes over.

It's very sad IMO, but it has worked for GW for many years.

If FFG had an interest in updating these things, they would have done so by now. The game isn't that new, and even though they did fix something, they did so because nobody was interested in buying into a game where 4x4 and Sabs where the only two valid lists, a)because they where incredibly boring and b)because after you bought those models, there was no idea in further purchasing any models.

So as to Han, Chewie, Boba Fett, Dengar and Darth Vader. I think their biggest problem is, that FFG just doesn't care.

I think their biggest problem is, that FFG just doesn't care.

You can probably find the developer interview from Boardwars.eu interesting.

The developers are continually showing that they are doing what's good for the game, but they also need to produce new content, so in each wave they have limited room for cards that help the figures from the earlier waves.

So, even if FFG as a whole wouldn't care, the developers do.

It would cost minimal effort to just point adjust the above mentioned models or look into why they are underpowered and adjust accordingly. With the preview of the new wave it's evident that they know how to make models for the skirmish part of the game by now, so why won't they correct the old models? Complete and utter silence on the matter from FFG's side just shows that like GW, they aren't going to admit to mistakes and reprint those mistakes.

Yesterday Will Shick from PP announced that they would change a lot of stuff for WM/Hordes. Thar announcement was unprecedented in the tabletop world, because he admitted that the redesign of one of their factions had been botched, and that the company listened to the community and therefore wanted to readjust the entire faction. No tabletop company has ever come out and admitted something like that before, and it means a lot for customers, that the company actually cares about the fact that you've spendt money on their product and that they want you to enjoy the product they sell.

I understand that PP run things very differently from most other companies, and I am not saying that FFG should copy them in any way, but I would rather that FFG is more like PP and less like GW.

I guess I'm saying that you can totally be pro profit and still listen to the audience, we'll probably buy this product either way because we love Star Wars, so FFG has nothing to lose by going one direction or the other, it would just be nice if they would fix those things that are evidently terrible in this game, especially since they jumped the gun and released those items to create early interest in the product.

It would cost minimal effort to just point adjust the above mentioned models or look into why they are underpowered and adjust accordingly. With the preview of the new wave it's evident that they know how to make models for the skirmish part of the game by now, so why won't they correct the old models? Complete and utter silence on the matter from FFG's side just shows that like GW, they aren't going to admit to mistakes and reprint those mistakes.

But to a1bert's point, I don't think that it's fair to say that it would be 'minimal effort'. I mean it's easy enough for us to throw around things like "oh, just reduce his point cost by 2" but as a developer it's not that simple. Trying to re-balance a card that is currently considered "unplayable" is exactly as difficult as trying to create a new card, and they're not going to do it without extensive (and resource-consuming) play testing.

So they could spend their time re-balancing the old cards or they could spend their time creating new expansions; with limited development time it really is an either/or scenario. Personally I would rather see new stuff coming out. You might disagree with me on that, and that's fine, but I don't think that it's fair to say that it's not happening just because FFG "doesn't care".

I'd be fine, though only just, with new figures. I know they need to sell new units. I just have a fear of the game becoming too much like WOTC where you are constantly releasing some new version of the figure. I like that there is "a" Darth Vader, et al. Especially since there are like 5 characters or more than need attention. I don't doubt the developers are trying to do what's right, but the pressure to make more stuff might hinder their good intentions. The characters don't need to change, really. There is nothing wrong with them, per say, other than they cost too much. Yes, certain players may want to see certain abilities for their favorite characters, especially given the new abilities that have come out in later characters, and I can understand that, but as I said, I just don't want to get to the point were there are 5 Darth Vader and 5 Han Solo, etc. figures.

Seje, I get what you're saying but I don't think it's quite as bad as you say. My response here isn't directed at you but more in general to point people to some resources that explain why these problems exist, what the developers are doing, etc. And maybe we should have a topic in the forum that summarizes some of the current problems and what the developers have said about them?

First off, a lot of people haven't been following Imperial Assault long enough to realize that the original designers (those who made the core set and wave 1) are no longer heading up Imperial Assault. I didn't realize it until a few months ago.

There even been one original designer I have seen on public forums who went into why these characters ended up not being balanced very well for skirmish. I didn't even know this until recently when the guys at boardwars.eu put together their question list for the interview with Paul and Todd who are currently in charge

Entire thread on the interview with current designers of Imperial Assault here with link to the interview: https://community.fantasyflightgames.com/topic/228179-interview-with-paul-and-todd/

Reddit thread with original designer commenting on some of the balance problems from core set, etc: https://www.reddit.c...mperial/d5mchyx

Second, the faq/errata to officers, royal guards, sabs happened after Worlds last year - there's next to no way they will radically alter the deal in even the few months before Worlds this year. Why? Because even small tweaks send out ripples that can't be predicted. And arguably more important, it's not until after Worlds and seeing what lists get played and do well that there is enough data out there to be able to really see what needs tweaking. I mean who would have thought that wookiees would have gotten 2nd place at Nationals? If someone called it ahead of time I'd be amazed the design window is huge on a table top game like this - Jabba's Realm went into development about October last year I think they said and now it's about to ship. But the moment it went into printing it was locked as to stats, cards, etc.

It's entirely possible (maybe even probable) that the old characters will not be updated/errata'd but if one listens to the interview, reads the reddit, and lets the new unit designs speak for themselves, we can see that the game is moving forward and wide open and in a very healthy place. And Paul and Todd said a number of times that they read these forums and take them into account and they are very well aware of this issue with core/wave 1 units.

I guess all of that to say, it's not just capitalism for ya, it isn't just a minimal effort to fix, and hopefully this helps a lot of people know what's happened and what the developers have actually said about it Peace!

Second, the faq/errata to officers, royal guards, sabs happened after Worlds last year - there's next to no way they will radically alter the deal in even the few months before Worlds this year. Why? Because even small tweaks send out ripples that can't be predicted. And arguably more important, it's not until after Worlds and seeing what lists get played and do well that there is enough data out there to be able to really see what needs tweaking. I mean who would have thought that wookiees would have gotten 2nd place at Nationals? If someone called it ahead of time I'd be amazed the design window is huge on a table top game like this - Jabba's Realm went into development about October last year I think they said and now it's about to ship. But the moment it went into printing it was locked as to stats, cards, etc.

Personally, I think Worlds is the best time to figure out what's wrong. So I say "Let the Mayhem Begin!" and let people play with errata'd cards. If they're screwy or just too OP, then change it again.

In the end, FFG can simply change the cards in Skirmish only. Therefore creating an errata'd card that has the skirmish symbol on it and a reduced point cost. You can print that card off and put it on top of the original. It's not like you can use that card without having the original figure anyways, so you've already bought/paid FFG. It's different in Campaign where tokens are allowed. I think with simple player feedback on this forum alone, the developers/designers could easily determine where a figure's cost would be sufficient. We all agree Vader at 10 pts is too powerful, at 18 points is too much. Do you think Vader is on par with New Luke? If so, then he needs to be at 12-13 pts. 14 pts if you wanted to be on the side of caution. Most of us would rejoice at that. From there you could easily go through the list and recost figures. IG-88 at 8 pts would be the same as Bossk IMO. Boba Fett at 10 pts would be efficient as Luke at 10 pts. We all agree Han at 8 pts and Chewie at 12 pts would make a great addition to any team. I mean come on, that's half your cost for 2 figures. Some people are still going to go the eTroopers x2 + ImpOff/ASmugg to have 7 figures, but at 20 pts, Chewie and Han are a good combo.

I don't know what else testing needs to be done, but I think we can all agree, just a reduction in pts is all that needs to happen. There is no ground breaking card(s) that will disrupt the game. It will create more versatile lists though that would definitely benefit the game.

~D

I read the interview a while back, and I get it. It takes time to adjust rules and spending time on old stuff isn't making the shareholders any money so even with the best intentions it's not something thats going to work.

I also get that the developers are trying to make new stuff balanced and with the new spoilers, it looks like they're doing it very well. However, I hate that approach, because no matter how you put it, it's bad for the game that the models in question aren't good. If I want to build a thriving community of players in my area, I need to be able to sell the characters that people love, as it is now, I wouldn't recommend any of those guys to an aspiring player, and it's an extremely hard selling point to explain that those models are horrible, but the Saboteurs or bantha riders are money. Nobody sits at home thinking; "I wish there was a star wars game where I could play Bantha riders mixed with HK droids", they think "I want to play a game where I am Darth Vader and I am playing against Han Solo and Chewie", or even Kanan vs the Inquisitor (which is probably going to happen soon)

What I am saying is, that if the developers are serious about this game and want to see the skirmish part grow and flourish, they need to adjust the characters that people want to play. I have had almost zero interest from new players due to the steep price of getting started, and the fact that those key characters are terrible and thats a pity, because it's a good game and it could go places.

Second, the faq/errata to officers, royal guards, sabs happened after Worlds last year - there's next to no way they will radically alter the deal in even the few months before Worlds this year. Why? Because even small tweaks send out ripples that can't be predicted. And arguably more important, it's not until after Worlds and seeing what lists get played and do well that there is enough data out there to be able to really see what needs tweaking. I mean who would have thought that wookiees would have gotten 2nd place at Nationals? If someone called it ahead of time I'd be amazed the design window is huge on a table top game like this - Jabba's Realm went into development about October last year I think they said and now it's about to ship. But the moment it went into printing it was locked as to stats, cards, etc.

Personally, I think Worlds is the best time to figure out what's wrong. So I say "Let the Mayhem Begin!" and let people play with errata'd cards. If they're screwy or just too OP, then change it again.

In the end, FFG can simply change the cards in Skirmish only. Therefore creating an errata'd card that has the skirmish symbol on it and a reduced point cost. You can print that card off and put it on top of the original. It's not like you can use that card without having the original figure anyways, so you've already bought/paid FFG. It's different in Campaign where tokens are allowed. I think with simple player feedback on this forum alone, the developers/designers could easily determine where a figure's cost would be sufficient. We all agree Vader at 10 pts is too powerful, at 18 points is too much. Do you think Vader is on par with New Luke? If so, then he needs to be at 12-13 pts. 14 pts if you wanted to be on the side of caution. Most of us would rejoice at that. From there you could easily go through the list and recost figures. IG-88 at 8 pts would be the same as Bossk IMO. Boba Fett at 10 pts would be efficient as Luke at 10 pts. We all agree Han at 8 pts and Chewie at 12 pts would make a great addition to any team. I mean come on, that's half your cost for 2 figures. Some people are still going to go the eTroopers x2 + ImpOff/ASmugg to have 7 figures, but at 20 pts, Chewie and Han are a good combo.

I don't know what else testing needs to be done, but I think we can all agree, just a reduction in pts is all that needs to happen. There is no ground breaking card(s) that will disrupt the game. It will create more versatile lists though that would definitely benefit the game.

~D

FFG, give this guy a job!

Also, even if they do muck it up with new pricing, nothing is to stop them from just readjusting them later on.

Also, if anything...I think errata'ing the cards would increase profit. How many newbies have started playing this game, but read all the "IG-88 sucks"..."I want to play Boba Fett, but he's just not good/costed right"...so it deters any new players from buying the expansion packs already. So in the end, fixing it and then us Vets going "OMG, I GOTTA PLAY WITH BOBA!!" would only entice newbies to buy the packs?

Just my 2cents on that theory that they won't fix it b/c they won't make any money on it.

Plus it makes us happy, keeps us interested, and makes us tell our friends (besides this game rocks), that FFG listens and is an awesome company to buy product from!

~D

Also, even if they do muck it up with new pricing, nothing is to stop them from just readjusting them later on.

Instead of not screwing the competitive scene it is better to screw it twice? What kind of alienation would result from that?

The design cycle from concept through design, alpha testing, beta testing, licensor approval and production takes about a year. A business can't just throw something out there and hope it will work out. A mentality that if it doesn't work, you muck with it again later causes a downward spiral to doom and death of the game.

When you change something you have to be certain the changes are correct solutions to the right problems.

And if you listen to what is not said, the developers are working on something to help the issues the community has. Start your one-year count.

Also, even if they do muck it up with new pricing, nothing is to stop them from just readjusting them later on.

Instead of not screwing the competitive scene it is better to screw it twice? What kind of alienation would result from that?

The design cycle from concept through design, alpha testing, beta testing, licensor approval and production takes about a year. A business can't just throw something out there and hope it will work out. A mentality that if it doesn't work, you muck with it again later causes a downward spiral to doom and death of the game.

When you change something you have to be certain the changes are correct solutions to the right problems.

And if you listen to what is not said, the developers are working on something to help the issues the community has. Start your one-year count.

They already mucked it up numerous times with 4x4, Sabs, and over pricing. And it took them how many months to fix 4x4 and Sabs?? If they're quick to fix stuff, they don't alienate anyone. Again, I think EVERYONE (okay 99.99% b/c there's always some A$$ who wants to play devil's advocate) can agree that Wave 1 - 3 are over priced. They should EASILY be able to fix those cards. I mean come on, it takes me 30 minutes to make sense of Vader/Han/Chewie/RGC/Boba...etc. It can't take a team of how many designers/developers/playtesters to figure this out and roll out an errata in a day or two?

SH1T, roll out the errata for 1 month, get feedback, and see what it'll do. People will complain in 24 hours if it's "broken".

This whole, well we gotta wait and see and do playtesting. Heck if I was paid to play FFG games all day, you couldn't keep me out of the office.

~D

Yeah, it's not that hard.

Han; 8

Chewie; 12

Boba; 10

Vader; 13

Dengar; add a green die to his attack pool.

IG-88, add a die to his pool and lower his cost to 10.

Would that work? Probably. It's not to powerful for sure. Would it destroy the meta? Having more viable options for your lists? Of course it wouldn't. All of the models would be good if costed like this, but they probably still wouldn't be as good as a unit of eStormtroopers.

As I see it thats where they have to start, with the humble Stormtrooper. Why would you ever get anything else? They have a +2 surge, good damage dice and a built in reroll. They have 3 attacls pr activation and they can come back after they die. They are the best unit in the game, and for single model deployments to compete, they need to be either better or cheaper. It's not rocket science.

I read the interview a while back, and I get it. It takes time to adjust rules and spending time on old stuff isn't making the shareholders any money so even with the best intentions it's not something thats going to work.

I also get that the developers are trying to make new stuff balanced and with the new spoilers, it looks like they're doing it very well. However, I hate that approach, because no matter how you put it, it's bad for the game that the models in question aren't good. If I want to build a thriving community of players in my area, I need to be able to sell the characters that people love, as it is now, I wouldn't recommend any of those guys to an aspiring player, and it's an extremely hard selling point to explain that those models are horrible, but the Saboteurs or bantha riders are money. Nobody sits at home thinking; "I wish there was a star wars game where I could play Bantha riders mixed with HK droids", they think "I want to play a game where I am Darth Vader and I am playing against Han Solo and Chewie", or even Kanan vs the Inquisitor (which is probably going to happen soon)

What I am saying is, that if the developers are serious about this game and want to see the skirmish part grow and flourish, they need to adjust the characters that people want to play. I have had almost zero interest from new players due to the steep price of getting started, and the fact that those key characters are terrible and thats a pity, because it's a good game and it could go places.

This is my point as well. I feel like sometimes you could just as easily replace the miniatures with Sorry pieces because all competitive skirmish players care about is stats. If the combination of red and green sorry pieces is better than the combination of blue and yellow ones, then red and green pieces it is. Sure some will take pride in finding the right combination of yellows and blues, with maybe a black mixed in that will be more competitive than it should be, but essentially it all comes down to stats on the card. I know I'm being slightly hyperbolic, but only just.

This is my point as well. I feel like sometimes you could just as easily replace the miniatures with Sorry pieces because all competitive skirmish players care about is stats. If the combination of red and green sorry pieces is better than the combination of blue and yellow ones, then red and green pieces it is. Sure some will take pride in finding the right combination of yellows and blues, with maybe a black mixed in that will be more competitive than it should be, but essentially it all comes down to stats on the card. I know I'm being slightly hyperbolic, but only just.

You could literally say this about 99% of all miniature games. Frankly I agree that making the core characters good is going to do more fore the game than releasing new stuff to a minority of people who actually play it. Look at the difference in number posts in the xwing forum compared to the IA forum, and a majority of them play campaign.

It's just not going to happen, when and how we want.

I don't think E Stormtroopers are that good